martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil was the one that had the Bulls sign Rodman and he went hard after DeAndre Jordan last summer!!! Don't assume that he isn't interested in that kind of big. RoLo was considered only a defensive big by most and he was able to expand his game. People tend to misunderstand Phil and what he likes. Not every player has to be the Prototypical Triangle player and he's proven that over the years.

I want to say that Rodman, DeAndre and Whiteside are very much different players. 2 were very much proven and Rodman was very much added to a special environment. With Whiteside you need constant mentoring and coaching and watching out for him. Don't think he fits Phil's profile as player he wants.

There were LOTS of questions about Rodman's fit with the Bulls at the time. My point isn't so much that all these players are the same, just that Phil is more willing to add a player most would think aren't his type of player. DWill is another guy that some questioned because of his lack of BB IQ. He is willing to take chances on players that some consider a problem. In the Book Mind Games, it says Phil thought of his own rebel days as a Knick and he felt confident he could coach Rodman. They signed Jack Haley, Rodman's friend just to make him more confortable.

I get your point, but Whiteside also has a Max or near max price point, don't think Phil would go for that.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:I predict that this thread will somehow not get locked

You know, I could understand if you made fun of BRIGGS for posting his 1000th thread on Seth Curry, but it takes another level of douchiness to troll the way you do. Your depths are mesmerizing.

I am trying to think out of the box

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:I predict that this thread will somehow not get locked

You know, I could understand if you made fun of BRIGGS for posting his 1000th thread on Seth Curry, but it takes another level of douchiness to troll the way you do. Your depths are mesmerizing.

Hey man Im a sexy guy how can you blame the cat for following me round Im sorry mreinman Im already taken but Im flattered

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:One thing about players like Seth is that it shows there are lower tier options out there for Phil to target. Trying to raise the overall level of play with non stars may be his only option. I would hope that we can catch a break and get players on the rise.

I'm curious if Phil will go hard after a kid like Hassan Whiteside. No pressing need but why not upgrade if the opportunity presents itself.

I'm also curious to see if Phil takes a shot at a RFA like Evan Fournier. Seems like the right time to test the Magic's resolve on spending on him when they have Hezonja.

Were not getting Whiteside(does that make any sense to spend that kind of money on a non triangle type player?) where not getting Fournier. I just stayed with the guys I thought up

Gasol Bazemore Curry--all fit in and the draft Valentine(if possible) Forbes Ochefu McCaw Jones and I really like Bentil--maybe 2 or 3 of these guys.

Phil was the one that had the Bulls sign Rodman and he went hard after DeAndre Jordan last summer!!! Don't assume that he isn't interested in that kind of big. RoLo was considered only a defensive big by most and he was able to expand his game. People tend to misunderstand Phil and what he likes. Not every player has to be the Prototypical Triangle player and he's proven that over the years.

As for Fournier I think there is a chance he could go after him. It's not low hanging fruit but the timing could be right to finally go after an RFA. We all know team's will shout how in love they are with a RFA and that they'll match any offer, but in practice that doesn't always happen.

Fournier is a pending free agent and the Magic have no idea what it will cost to keep him beyond this season. The Magic also are not sold that keeping Fournier at an inflated price tag is the best use of the free agent money. They played a similar hand with Harris last summer, trying to land Atlanta’s Paul Millsap before inking Harris to his long-term deal. The same is expected this summer.

The Magic will have the option to restrict Fournier’s free agency and see if there is a better place to put what could be $14-$16 million per season. If they can’t find a better option, they can always sign or match Fournier’s offers.

If they choose to pass on Fournier altogether, they still have Oladipo, who will be one more season along in his career and maybe a more reliable shooter after another offseason of work.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-pm-awfully-quiet-on-the-nba-trade-front/

Team	                2016-17	        Max Space
Los Angeles Lakers	$23,126,154	$66,873,846
Philadelphia 76ers	$24,518,361	$65,481,639
Dallas Mavericks	$28,212,230	$61,787,770
Boston Celtics	        $33,971,629	$56,028,371
Washington Wizards	$36,858,521	$53,141,479
Detroit Pistons	        $42,425,365	$47,574,635
Portland Trail Blazers	$44,468,987	$45,531,013
Brooklyn Nets	        $45,379,214	$44,620,786
Houston Rockets	        $45,598,308	$44,401,692
Charlotte Hornets	$45,908,700	$44,091,300
Memphis Grizzlies	$47,493,858	$42,506,142
Miami Heat	        $48,008,675	$41,991,325
Atlanta Hawks	        $52,717,353	$37,282,647
Denver Nuggets	        $54,613,156	$35,386,844
New York Knicks	        $55,366,567	$34,633,433
Utah Jazz	        $56,560,760	$33,439,240
Indiana Pacers	        $57,230,006	$32,769,994
Phoenix Suns	        $59,191,480	$30,808,520
Milwaukee Bucks	        $59,711,631	$30,288,369
Minnesota Timberwolves	$60,264,642	$29,735,358
Sacramento Kings	$60,424,376	$29,575,624
Orlando Magic	        $60,534,811	$29,465,189
New Orleans Pelicans	$63,851,448	$26,148,552
Chicago Bulls	        $64,750,458	$25,249,542
Oklahoma City Thunder	$65,906,301	$24,093,699
Toronto Raptors	        $69,909,899	$20,090,101
San Antonio Spurs	$70,429,409	$19,570,591
Golden State Warriors	$74,751,658	$15,248,342
Los Angeles Clippers	$76,290,361	$13,709,639
Cleveland Cavaliers	$76,641,961	$13,358,039

Who considered Rolo only a defensive big? People just knew nothing about him. Rolo is exactly what he always was. You are talking about giving him more low post ops?

In any event this is not a big point of contention. Not worth arguing over.

nixluva wrote:One thing about players like Seth is that it shows there are lower tier options out there for Phil to target. Trying to raise the overall level of play with non stars may be his only option. I would hope that we can catch a break and get players on the rise.

I'm curious if Phil will go hard after a kid like Hassan Whiteside. No pressing need but why not upgrade if the opportunity presents itself.

I'm also curious to see if Phil takes a shot at a RFA like Evan Fournier. Seems like the right time to test the Magic's resolve on spending on him when they have Hezonja.

Pass and Shoot. Guys like Calderon get hate here, but Calderon was our best guard on offense by far. What are Jose's strengths? He can pass the ball and shoot it well. What we lack now is the same skill level at SG, Center as well. Ideally in the Triangle all 5 players can pass the ball. You look at Golden State, Bogut-Green-Iguodala-Thompson-Curry can all pass.

It's why there is some articles out there about Evan Turner as an option to replace Afflalo at 2. Afflalo was very one dimensional. He rarely looked for the open man. Evan Turner isn't a better scorer than Afflalo, but he will look for the open man, he will look to penetrate the defense and make a pass.

What it comes down to for the Triangle, for the Knicks, we need more talented passers and shooters. It's why I like giving Pau Gasol a 18$M contract for 1 year, if we fail to convince bigger name free agents. Pau can shoot from outside the paint, pass, post up. From the guard/wing spot, there's Batum or Turner. Batum much better, but also likely far more expensive.

I see Phil liking

Centers: Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Joakim Noah (All 3 can pass much better than RoLo)
Wings: Kevin Durant, DeMar DeRozan Nic Batum, Evan Turner
Guards: Mario Chalmers (If he's recovered from that achilles injury)

If D-Will and Afflalo opt out, we may have enough cap room to sign a wing and a big.

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:The two most important aspects in the Triangle are no different than what a team like Golden State would like.

Pass and Shoot. Guys like Calderon get hate here, but Calderon was our best guard on offense by far. What are Jose's strengths? He can pass the ball and shoot it well. What we lack now is the same skill level at SG, Center as well. Ideally in the Triangle all 5 players can pass the ball. You look at Golden State, Bogut-Green-Iguodala-Thompson-Curry can all pass.

It's why there is some articles out there about Evan Turner as an option to replace Afflalo at 2. Afflalo was very one dimensional. He rarely looked for the open man. Evan Turner isn't a better scorer than Afflalo, but he will look for the open man, he will look to penetrate the defense and make a pass.

What it comes down to for the Triangle, for the Knicks, we need more talented passers and shooters. It's why I like giving Pau Gasol a 18$M contract for 1 year, if we fail to convince bigger name free agents. Pau can shoot from outside the paint, pass, post up. From the guard/wing spot, there's Batum or Turner. Batum much better, but also likely far more expensive.

I see Phil liking

Centers: Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Joakim Noah (All 3 can pass much better than RoLo)
Wings: Kevin Durant, DeMar DeRozan Nic Batum, Evan Turner
Guards: Mario Chalmers (If he's recovered from that achilles injury)

If D-Will and Afflalo opt out, we may have enough cap room to sign a wing and a big.

What I dislike about focusing on the Triangle is people not focusing on Defense. I think it's a failing of Rambis, too.

But you look at the Warriors, Phil's Bulls, Phil's Lakers - those were fantastic defensive teams.

Also, it doesn't really matter if Phil likes Durant and DeRozan - they ain't coming here.

What I'm saying is that rather focus on offensive starphuching, I'd like to find some two-way players for this team.

I'd rather get Mike Conley and Lance Stephenson than swing and miss at DeMar DeRozan or Durant.

I thought that we established that Rambis was the defensive coach for Phil with the Lakers?

Knicks defense improved this year, still not sound.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:The two most important aspects in the Triangle are no different than what a team like Golden State would like.

Pass and Shoot. Guys like Calderon get hate here, but Calderon was our best guard on offense by far. What are Jose's strengths? He can pass the ball and shoot it well. What we lack now is the same skill level at SG, Center as well. Ideally in the Triangle all 5 players can pass the ball. You look at Golden State, Bogut-Green-Iguodala-Thompson-Curry can all pass.

It's why there is some articles out there about Evan Turner as an option to replace Afflalo at 2. Afflalo was very one dimensional. He rarely looked for the open man. Evan Turner isn't a better scorer than Afflalo, but he will look for the open man, he will look to penetrate the defense and make a pass.

What it comes down to for the Triangle, for the Knicks, we need more talented passers and shooters. It's why I like giving Pau Gasol a 18$M contract for 1 year, if we fail to convince bigger name free agents. Pau can shoot from outside the paint, pass, post up. From the guard/wing spot, there's Batum or Turner. Batum much better, but also likely far more expensive.

I see Phil liking

Centers: Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Joakim Noah (All 3 can pass much better than RoLo)
Wings: Kevin Durant, DeMar DeRozan Nic Batum, Evan Turner
Guards: Mario Chalmers (If he's recovered from that achilles injury)

If D-Will and Afflalo opt out, we may have enough cap room to sign a wing and a big.

What I dislike about focusing on the Triangle is people not focusing on Defense. I think it's a failing of Rambis, too.

But you look at the Warriors, Phil's Bulls, Phil's Lakers - those were fantastic defensive teams.

Also, it doesn't really matter if Phil likes Durant and DeRozan - they ain't coming here.

What I'm saying is that rather focus on offensive starphuching, I'd like to find some two-way players for this team.

I'd rather get Mike Conley and Lance Stephenson than swing and miss at DeMar DeRozan or Durant.

I thought that we established that Rambis was the defensive coach for Phil with the Lakers?

Knicks defense improved this year, still not sound.

Yes, but defensive efficiency slipped under Rambis. They were 18th in the league under Fisher and finished the season 21st in the league.

Some of the negatives from his tenure in Minnesota included a team official quoted as saying they'd give up 120pts in a game and he would talk about Triangle offensive execution.

It may be the case that if Rambis is allowed to focus only on defense he's good at it. But might it be the case that he is not capable of implementing the Triangle offense AND focusing on defense? His head coaching record kinda reflects that.

I just don't have faith in him to do both.

Also, Fisher started running teams off the 3 point line / new school approach. I think that old school Rambis went back to clogging the paint and giving up more open 3's.

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:The two most important aspects in the Triangle are no different than what a team like Golden State would like.

Pass and Shoot. Guys like Calderon get hate here, but Calderon was our best guard on offense by far. What are Jose's strengths? He can pass the ball and shoot it well. What we lack now is the same skill level at SG, Center as well. Ideally in the Triangle all 5 players can pass the ball. You look at Golden State, Bogut-Green-Iguodala-Thompson-Curry can all pass.

It's why there is some articles out there about Evan Turner as an option to replace Afflalo at 2. Afflalo was very one dimensional. He rarely looked for the open man. Evan Turner isn't a better scorer than Afflalo, but he will look for the open man, he will look to penetrate the defense and make a pass.

What it comes down to for the Triangle, for the Knicks, we need more talented passers and shooters. It's why I like giving Pau Gasol a 18$M contract for 1 year, if we fail to convince bigger name free agents. Pau can shoot from outside the paint, pass, post up. From the guard/wing spot, there's Batum or Turner. Batum much better, but also likely far more expensive.

I see Phil liking

Centers: Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Joakim Noah (All 3 can pass much better than RoLo)
Wings: Kevin Durant, DeMar DeRozan Nic Batum, Evan Turner
Guards: Mario Chalmers (If he's recovered from that achilles injury)

If D-Will and Afflalo opt out, we may have enough cap room to sign a wing and a big.

What I dislike about focusing on the Triangle is people not focusing on Defense. I think it's a failing of Rambis, too.

But you look at the Warriors, Phil's Bulls, Phil's Lakers - those were fantastic defensive teams.

Also, it doesn't really matter if Phil likes Durant and DeRozan - they ain't coming here.

What I'm saying is that rather focus on offensive starphuching, I'd like to find some two-way players for this team.

I'd rather get Mike Conley and Lance Stephenson than swing and miss at DeMar DeRozan or Durant.

I thought that we established that Rambis was the defensive coach for Phil with the Lakers?

Knicks defense improved this year, still not sound.

Yes, but defensive efficiency slipped under Rambis. They were 18th in the league under Fisher and finished the season 21st in the league.

Some of the negatives from his tenure in Minnesota included a team official quoted as saying they'd give up 120pts in a game and he would talk about Triangle offensive execution.

It may be the case that if Rambis is allowed to focus only on defense he's good at it. But might it be the case that he is not capable of implementing the Triangle offense AND focusing on defense? His head coaching record kinda reflects that.

I just don't have faith in him to do both.

Also, Fisher started running teams off the 3 point line / new school approach. I think that old school Rambis went back to clogging the paint and giving up more open 3's.

Stats back this up, too.

Fisher allowed 22.1ppg from the three point line

In 28 games, Rambis let the numbers for the season go up to 22.9ppg

That implies he allowed about 2 more ppg from the 3pt line in his 28 games at coach.

(edit: I did the math - it's actually 24.4ppg from 3 for Rambis, up from 22.1ppg for Fisher)

a 2 point swing in scoring differential in the NBA is huge.

It's the difference between the Toronto Raptors (+4.5) and the Charlotte Hornets (+2.7). It's the difference between the Raptors (+4.5) and the Cavs (+6.0)

Rambis is not a good coach.

My hope is that a long back court (Grant Wroten ??) will be poking away more passes

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:The two most important aspects in the Triangle are no different than what a team like Golden State would like.

Pass and Shoot. Guys like Calderon get hate here, but Calderon was our best guard on offense by far. What are Jose's strengths? He can pass the ball and shoot it well. What we lack now is the same skill level at SG, Center as well. Ideally in the Triangle all 5 players can pass the ball. You look at Golden State, Bogut-Green-Iguodala-Thompson-Curry can all pass.

It's why there is some articles out there about Evan Turner as an option to replace Afflalo at 2. Afflalo was very one dimensional. He rarely looked for the open man. Evan Turner isn't a better scorer than Afflalo, but he will look for the open man, he will look to penetrate the defense and make a pass.

What it comes down to for the Triangle, for the Knicks, we need more talented passers and shooters. It's why I like giving Pau Gasol a 18$M contract for 1 year, if we fail to convince bigger name free agents. Pau can shoot from outside the paint, pass, post up. From the guard/wing spot, there's Batum or Turner. Batum much better, but also likely far more expensive.

I see Phil liking

Centers: Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Joakim Noah (All 3 can pass much better than RoLo)
Wings: Kevin Durant, DeMar DeRozan Nic Batum, Evan Turner
Guards: Mario Chalmers (If he's recovered from that achilles injury)

If D-Will and Afflalo opt out, we may have enough cap room to sign a wing and a big.

What I dislike about focusing on the Triangle is people not focusing on Defense. I think it's a failing of Rambis, too.

But you look at the Warriors, Phil's Bulls, Phil's Lakers - those were fantastic defensive teams.

Also, it doesn't really matter if Phil likes Durant and DeRozan - they ain't coming here.

What I'm saying is that rather focus on offensive starphuching, I'd like to find some two-way players for this team.

I'd rather get Mike Conley and Lance Stephenson than swing and miss at DeMar DeRozan or Durant.

I thought that we established that Rambis was the defensive coach for Phil with the Lakers?

Knicks defense improved this year, still not sound.

Yes, but defensive efficiency slipped under Rambis. They were 18th in the league under Fisher and finished the season 21st in the league.

Some of the negatives from his tenure in Minnesota included a team official quoted as saying they'd give up 120pts in a game and he would talk about Triangle offensive execution.

It may be the case that if Rambis is allowed to focus only on defense he's good at it. But might it be the case that he is not capable of implementing the Triangle offense AND focusing on defense? His head coaching record kinda reflects that.

I just don't have faith in him to do both.

Also, Fisher started running teams off the 3 point line / new school approach. I think that old school Rambis went back to clogging the paint and giving up more open 3's.

Stats back this up, too.

Fisher allowed 22.1ppg from the three point line

In 28 games, Rambis let the numbers for the season go up to 22.9ppg

That implies he allowed about 2 more ppg from the 3pt line in his 28 games at coach.

(edit: I did the math - it's actually 24.4ppg from 3 for Rambis, up from 22.1ppg for Fisher)

a 2 point swing in scoring differential in the NBA is huge.

It's the difference between the Toronto Raptors (+4.5) and the Charlotte Hornets (+2.7). It's the difference between the Raptors (+4.5) and the Cavs (+6.0)

Rambis is not a good coach.

If you wanna take a small sample of 30 games and extrapolate, feel free. Also take into account that 2 of the Knicks better defenders in Lance and KP were out.

Was Rambis the defensive coach when Fish was with the Knicks? If not, who?

Coaches don't forget how to coach over night, but have at it.

I'm saying I don't think he's capable of doing the whole job. And Rambis had KP for most of his run.

I'm sorry, I don't get your dogged defense of Rambis. He's a terrible coach and the numbers back this up, the eye test backs this up. Having success as a defensive assistant for Phil Jackson doesn't automatically = him being a good HEAD coach.

And pointing to how much better the team did with Fisher running it while Rambis was on the bench... Phil and Rambis are ON RECORD saying Fisher didn't listen to Rambis enough and that is one of the reasons it wasn't working.

I do not get the defense of Rambis. So I will have at the fact that all the stats got worse under him and the team sucked under him. Rambis coaching the 99 strike Lakers to the second round and had them playing passable ball. Phil came in and that team went 67-15 and is considered one of the most dominant teams of all time. Difference between Rambis coaching and Phil? Unfair? Seems like the only defense of Rambis is that it's unfair to judge all the reasons he's failed at his job. He's never been good.