knickscity wrote:

martin wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil was the FIRST to contact Luke! Pretty sure he got a heads up on what Luke was thinking. Not that hard to figure out Luke was gonna wait for the LA job or stay in GS!!!

Also Phil did come back to LA when the roster wasn't great. Remember 2004-05 and 2005-06 Kwame Brown and Smush Parker?

Phil: Congratulations on a great season Luke. Can't talk to you on the record, but as a friend, I just want to get an idea about your possible plans for the future so I can move with our search for a new Knicks' coach.

Luke: I've had had some feelers from the Lakers, Phil. You know I'm a West Coast guy and would prefer to have a job closer to the Pacific Ocean.

Phil: I understand where you're coming from now, Luke. Thanks for the heads up. Good luck with the playoffs and your next California job.

Yeah I pretty much envisioned it this way too

That would tampering. Kerr already stated such. Kerr Phil and Luke have stated they didn't talk about coaching.

What would they say, "ok guys you got us, we were talking about coaching. Come on nba suspend and fine all of us and take away draft picks. We deserve it"

StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil was a terrific head coach but so far as a president....not so much

Well...as a president, he has acquired our next franchise player, added a few draft picks (Grant, Early, Willy) and replenished the young talent on our team (KP, Grant, Dwill, Galloway etc) when the cupboard was dry, and accomplished this without sacrificing future picks or putting us in salary cap hell. Knowing where this team was when he took over, and our years of bad basketball, sometimes i get perplexed with the unrealistic expectations people really have of his job here. Was he supposed to have a champion contender by now, after 2 years? We are in better position as a franchise than we have been in a long time, so i just don't get the hate.

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil was a terrific head coach but so far as a president....not so much

Well...as a president, he has acquired our next franchise player, added a few draft picks (Grant, Early, Willy) and replenished the young talent on our team (KP, Grant, Dwill, Galloway etc) when the cupboard was dry, and accomplished this without sacrificing future picks or putting us in salary cap hell. Knowing where this team was when he took over, and our years of bad basketball, sometimes i get perplexed with the unrealistic expectations people really have of his job here. Was he supposed to have a champion contender by now, after 2 years? We are in better position as a franchise than we have been in a long time, so i just don't get the hate.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil was a terrific head coach but so far as a president....not so much

Well...as a president, he has acquired our next franchise player, added a few draft picks (Grant, Early, Willy) and replenished the young talent on our team (KP, Grant, Dwill, Galloway etc) when the cupboard was dry, and accomplished this without sacrificing future picks or putting us in salary cap hell. Knowing where this team was when he took over, and our years of bad basketball, sometimes i get perplexed with the unrealistic expectations people really have of his job here. Was he supposed to have a champion contender by now, after 2 years? We are in better position as a franchise than we have been in a long time, so i just don't get the hate.

i never said he was bad i just dont think he has been great. I praised both the KP pick and jerian grant trade. According to some Unless you are 150 percent positive you are considered impatient,a hater,or not a knick fan. I love the knicks and try to be positive but i also try to be objective, im not afraid to point out mistakes or criticisms

We ALL recognize the things that didn't go well. But you said Phil was a terrific Head Coach, which is true but his long coaching career is over. Then you said so far as a Prez "not so much", which he's really at the very beginning of his career having just completed 2 seasons and I can't think of too many Presidents that have been judged as much after just 2 seasons of work. TWO SEASONS!!! While no one is saying Phil has been great and there's nothing to criticize, there seems to be a lack of perspective about how long he's been on the job and how bad the situation was in NY.

He's rather quickly turned that roster nearly completely over except for Melo. Some moves have worked out and now we have fewer holes to fill this summer. If Phil can add just a couple of quality guards we could be talking about a very bright future for this team. There will be some opportunities but we have to wait and see what happens this summer.

Knowing that we have very specific needs rather than the very broad needs last summer should increase the chances for success this summer.

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil was a terrific head coach but so far as a president....not so much

Well...as a president, he has acquired our next franchise player, added a few draft picks (Grant, Early, Willy) and replenished the young talent on our team (KP, Grant, Dwill, Galloway etc) when the cupboard was dry, and accomplished this without sacrificing future picks or putting us in salary cap hell. Knowing where this team was when he took over, and our years of bad basketball, sometimes i get perplexed with the unrealistic expectations people really have of his job here. Was he supposed to have a champion contender by now, after 2 years? We are in better position as a franchise than we have been in a long time, so i just don't get the hate.

i never said he was bad i just dont think he has been great. I praised both the KP pick and jerian grant trade. According to some Unless you are 150 percent positive you are considered impatient,a hater,or not a knick fan. I love the knicks and try to be positive but i also try to be objective, im not afraid to point out mistakes or criticisms

We ALL recognize the things that didn't go well. But you said Phil was a terrific Head Coach, which is true but his long coaching career is over. Then you said so far as a Prez "not so much", which he's really at the very beginning of his career having just completed 2 seasons and I can't think of too many Presidents that have been judged as much after just 2 seasons of work. TWO SEASONS!!! While no one is saying Phil has been great and there's nothing to criticize, there seems to be a lack of perspective about how long he's been on the job and how bad the situation was in NY.

He's rather quickly turned that roster nearly completely over except for Melo. Some moves have worked out and now we have fewer holes to fill this summer. If Phil can add just a couple of quality guards we could be talking about a very bright future for this team. There will be some opportunities but we have to wait and see what happens this summer.

Knowing that we have very specific needs rather than the very broad needs last summer should increase the chances for success this summer.

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but he has turned the roster over credit is lost on me. Most of the big contracts were coming of the books: Amare, Bargnani, Tyson, and Shump were all ending at the same time and JR had an opt out. Roster turnover was coming regardless. Do fans need to give him credit for being in NY for a full week during the year too?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Phil was a terrific head coach but so far as a president....not so much

Well...as a president, he has acquired our next franchise player, added a few draft picks (Grant, Early, Willy) and replenished the young talent on our team (KP, Grant, Dwill, Galloway etc) when the cupboard was dry, and accomplished this without sacrificing future picks or putting us in salary cap hell. Knowing where this team was when he took over, and our years of bad basketball, sometimes i get perplexed with the unrealistic expectations people really have of his job here. Was he supposed to have a champion contender by now, after 2 years? We are in better position as a franchise than we have been in a long time, so i just don't get the hate.

i never said he was bad i just dont think he has been great. I praised both the KP pick and jerian grant trade. According to some Unless you are 150 percent positive you are considered impatient,a hater,or not a knick fan. I love the knicks and try to be positive but i also try to be objective, im not afraid to point out mistakes or criticisms

Phil has been far from perfect, i'm just looking at where we were when he took over vs. now. And i am not talking about win/loss, because taking a step back was necessary. I am looking at position of the franchise and how we are set up moving forward. Add improved culture and just generally healthy basketball operations and it seems like he has done more good than bad.

i completely understand and a somewhat agree. However this is a results business. For 16 years its been well pretty miserable for our fans. I have given the benefit of the doubt many times and ended being crushed. Now i need to it first which is pretty fair. I have said many times i love KP and was a fan of grant,early,and willy. Ive been very fair with phil. Ive complimented his good moves like the drafts but have pointed out his mistakes as well

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but he has turned the roster over credit is lost on me. Most of the big contracts were coming of the books: Amare, Bargnani, Tyson, and Shump were all ending at the same time and JR had an opt out. Roster turnover was coming regardless. Do fans need to give him credit for being in NY for a full week during the year too?

But if you wait for those guys to expire do you get to draft KP?

It's not about them expiring its about the notion that Phil did an incredible job turning the roster over. That group was on the way out regardless all he needed to do was get the most out of the tradable players.

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but he has turned the roster over credit is lost on me. Most of the big contracts were coming of the books: Amare, Bargnani, Tyson, and Shump were all ending at the same time and JR had an opt out. Roster turnover was coming regardless. Do fans need to give him credit for being in NY for a full week during the year too?

But if you wait for those guys to expire do you get to draft KP?

It's not about them expiring its about the notion that Phil did an incredible job turning the roster over. That group was on the way out regardless all he needed to do was get the most out of the tradable players.

When he moved Shump and SMith do you think he was consciously setting up to tank? Because if that was the case the only thing you might want back would be a pick. Also, Shump and Smith apparently were having a much harder time of things then Lance and Lou eventually did with the system Fisher was trying to put into place.

Well if you want a pick(1st) which would be smart get the pick from Shump and sit Jr if you can't trade him. Who knows maybe they give you one of the Denver picks.

Lou and Lance gave you hustle and terrible play. Which is what they needed but they could have still had lou and Lance to use in the Shump trade. The Cavs gave up the worse player out of Shump and Waiters but still got a 1st rd pick. They Timmy Hardaway'd OKC and the Knicks. What takes the cake is that JR is the best player out of the bunch and he was the reason that the knicks go barely nothing back. lol.

Also, Waiters is another case of not jumping the gun and waiting to move a locker room cancer. Waiters was beefing with Irving and played terrible but the Cavs played it smart and stole an asset to use for another asset.

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but he has turned the roster over credit is lost on me. Most of the big contracts were coming of the books: Amare, Bargnani, Tyson, and Shump were all ending at the same time and JR had an opt out. Roster turnover was coming regardless. Do fans need to give him credit for being in NY for a full week during the year too?

But if you wait for those guys to expire do you get to draft KP?

It's not about them expiring its about the notion that Phil did an incredible job turning the roster over. That group was on the way out regardless all he needed to do was get the most out of the tradable players.

Phil wasn't just trading players - that's what all of you armchair GMs seem to miss. Phil was transforming culture, he was seamlessly setting up the Knicks for the lottery, he was serving notice that the Knicks were going to operate differently, he was installing a system that was not a suggestion, and he was instituting a new organizational structure. The trade-off was the perception that his trades were poor exchanges on a player for player basis.

Those who use binary, black and white logic in evaluating what Phil is doing can't even see the chess match in progress.

It's silly to criticize Phil in some grand way this early. And no true sports fan wants to return to star-phucking our way to mediocrity, chronically injured pseudo-stars, and eternal calls for yet another change of personnel.

That said, I would have liked Phil to atleast have given Luke an interview and pursued him a little more aggressively.