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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/14/2016 11:57 PM
fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:mreinman wrote:perfectly disgusting way for for class-not to go out. exactly the response and logic that I expected from you. how about telling me the percentages? that is like counting points and ignored the shot attempts. please try again. so here is what phil is thinking ....
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fitzfarm
Posts: 25286 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2010 Member: #3285 |
4/15/2016 12:33 AM
How about this how many other players in the history of the nba have 37 game winning shots regardless of the percentage. Or How many players carried there team to get to game winning situations regardless of the outcome Kobe leads that by a mile as well. I'd hate to tell you this but your in the minority on this one. Kobe is regarded as the greatest closer of our time in the majority of the population
Respect the brute force of numbers. If you want to see someone who has proved he can hit big buckets, nobody can rival his collected works. That speaks to his preparation, his dedication, the trust his teammates have in him, and more subtle things like how his training regimen has kept him healthy and productive for such a long time. I don't know what your trying to prove but its not working. You should probably stop while you can. |
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/15/2016 12:56 PM
fitzfarm wrote:How about this how many other players in the history of the nba have 37 game winning shots regardless of the percentage. Or How many players carried there team to get to game winning situations regardless of the outcome Kobe leads that by a mile as well. I'd hate to tell you this but your in the minority on this one. Kobe is regarded as the greatest closer of our time in the majority of the population the bold indicates that your argument is weak and you gave up. lets say he took 3700 crunch time shots and hit 37 of them? See what I did there bud? so here is what phil is thinking ....
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Sambakick
Posts: 21479 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 9/8/2013 Member: #5646 |
4/15/2016 1:17 PM
crzymdups wrote:Imagine being so jaded you couldn't enjoy Kobe's final game where he dropped 60pts at age 37. Amen. Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
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Sambakick
Posts: 21479 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 9/8/2013 Member: #5646 |
4/15/2016 1:23 PM LAST EDITED: 4/15/2016 1:24 PM
You miss all the shots you don't take. There's a reason to ask Kobe to take those shots. He doesn't get rattled by the pressure of the big moment. He rises to the occasion. He won't make them all but 5 rings and 8th all time in wins. 3rd all time in points scored. I think you are letting your hate cloud your vision.
Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
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fitzfarm
Posts: 25286 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2010 Member: #3285 |
4/15/2016 4:20 PM
Sambakick wrote:You miss all the shots you don't take. There's a reason to ask Kobe to take those shots. He doesn't get rattled by the pressure of the big moment. He rises to the occasion. He won't make them all but 5 rings and 8th all time in wins. 3rd all time in points scored. I think you are letting your hate cloud your vision. Thank you!again mreinman your argument is weaker then weak again no one has come even close to 37 game winning shots and no one has come close to the amount of opportunities Kobe has had to win the game with one shot which is amazing he put his team in the opportunity to win that many times regardless of the outcome. The fact is he's had 37 game winning shots in 20 years no one is breaking that record anytime soon. Your argument can only go as far as percentage and if you asked any coach who they want to shoot the ball with time ending down one 99% would without hesitation say Kobe. Again my argument is not weak its fact Kobe is the all time best closer and 95% of people who watch basketball agree with me on this. So your in the 5 % so other then percentage what else do you have to back up your argument. Cause even with the percentage it just proves he's even greater for putting his team in position to win even more then anyone else in the history of the game. And sambakick says it perfectly that's what 95% of people think of Kobe no one looks at percentage they look at the historical numbers and see he's the greatest closer of all time. You have lost this argument no one cares about percentage when you won 37 games on last shots. No one is coming close to that record. As much as all Knick fans despise Kobe be humble and realize what a the living legend has done for the game ... Kinda like how everyone treats Jordan now and Jordan was hated more so then Kobe. |
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fitzfarm
Posts: 25286 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2010 Member: #3285 |
4/15/2016 4:28 PM
mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How about this how many other players in the history of the nba have 37 game winning shots regardless of the percentage. Or How many players carried there team to get to game winning situations regardless of the outcome Kobe leads that by a mile as well. I'd hate to tell you this but your in the minority on this one. Kobe is regarded as the greatest closer of our time in the majority of the population Again using your example the fact that he put his team in position to win 3700 times is amazing in itself. See how everyone else who calls him the greatest closer of our time look at that. Because it's not only the 37 game winners which which will never be broken in the foreseeable future it's the fact that he put his team in position to win more then anyone by a mile. |
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/15/2016 5:00 PM
Sambakick wrote:You miss all the shots you don't take. There's a reason to ask Kobe to take those shots. He doesn't get rattled by the pressure of the big moment. He rises to the occasion. He won't make them all but 5 rings and 8th all time in wins. 3rd all time in points scored. I think you are letting your hate cloud your vision. and 1st in missed shots. Silly to globally tout numbers without half of the equation. Kobe was a great player. No where close to Jordan. I hate kobe and I hated jordan (at the time) too but not as much. Can't deny how great he was. so here is what phil is thinking ....
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/15/2016 5:04 PM
fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How about this how many other players in the history of the nba have 37 game winning shots regardless of the percentage. Or How many players carried there team to get to game winning situations regardless of the outcome Kobe leads that by a mile as well. I'd hate to tell you this but your in the minority on this one. Kobe is regarded as the greatest closer of our time in the majority of the population say hello to my lil fren ... Jordan is 33 for 58 - 56.9% in the regular season and 9 for 18 – 50% in the playoffs when it pertains to being clutch Kobe is is 45 of 138 - 32.6% - in the regular season and 7 of 28 - 25% in the playoffs when it pertains to being clutch so here is what phil is thinking ....
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/15/2016 5:32 PM
this is good stuff (if you want honest data)
https://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/ Kobe vs LeBron; Who’s more clutch? It’s a question that’s asked among many NBA fans; who’s more clutch between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. Over the years both super-stars have had their fair share of clutch moments but let’s look at the facts and step away from the narratives for a second. There are many definitions as to what people define as “clutch”. Personally, I feel that a player being “clutch” means that they provide for their team efficiently and on consistent basis when their team needs it most: whether that be in the last 24 seconds; 30 seconds, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, elimination games or a game 7 and therefore these are the examples that I will use. Note: I will try to keep these stats as up to date as possible. (Last update: Wednesday 1st April, 2015. 160:00 GMT) Regular Season; a shot to tie or take the lead Last 24 seconds Kobe: 48 for 165 (29.1%) LeBron: 29 for 99 (29.3%) Last 30 seconds Kobe (since 01): 54 for 176 (30.68%) LeBron: 33 for 108 (30.56%) Last 2 minutes Kobe (since 01): 130 for 346 (37.57%) LeBron: 89 for 227 (39.21%) Last 5 minutes Kobe (since 2001 season): 243 for 586 (41.47%) LeBron (since 04 season): 189 for 434 (43.55%) Conclusion: Neither Kobe or LeBron shoot a good percentage when the time is winding down (last 30 seconds or less) although LeBron has the edge in the last 24 seconds compared to Kobe having the edge in the last 30 seconds (all be it by the smallest of margins). In the last 2 minutes and 5 minutes of a regular season game LeBron has the edge over Kobe. Overall I would give LeBron the edge as he leads in 3 out of the 4 categories. Post Season; a shot to tie or take the lead Last 24 seconds Kobe: 7 for 28 (25.0%) LeBron: 7 for 17 (41.1%) Last 30 seconds Kobe: 7 for 28 (25.0%) (0 for 8 from the 09 post season till present day) LeBron: 9 for 19 (47.30%) Last 2 minutes Kobe: 17 for 50 (34%) (0 for 8 in the last two playoffs; 2010 and 2011) LeBron: 21 for 43 (48.8%) Last 5 minutes Kobe (since 01 season): 30 for 88 (34.09%) LeBron: (since 06 season): 36 for 74 (48.6%) Conclusion: In the last 24 seconds and 30 seconds of a post season game Kobe only shoots 25%, which is terrible. LeBron however is clearly ‘more clutch’ shooting 41% in the last 24 seconds and 47% in the last 30 seconds of a game. This disparity between LeBron and Kobe continues as in the last 2 minutes and 5 minutes of a game LeBron shoots 14% higher than Kobe in both circumstances. Overall LeBron is more ‘clutch’ in a land-slide. MJ vs LeBron vs Kobe in the last 10 seconds in the post season. Game 7 of a Playoff Series Kobe 22.2ppg on 38.9% FG with 8.0rpg and 5.0apg (6 games) LeBron *34.0ppg on 46.5% FG with 8.1rpg and 3.5 APG (4 games) (*NBA Record) LeBron is clearly the better player when it pertains to game 7s Elimination Games Kobe 21.5 ppg on 41.4% FG with 5.8rpg and 3.5apg (19 games) LeBron 31.5 ppg on 46% FG with 10.0rpg and 6.5apg (12 games) LeBron is also clearly the better player when facing elimination. I have deliberately left out the two player’s records in these games because whether a team wins or loses is a team accomplishment. Basketball is a team game and therefore it’s foolish to attribute a loss to just one player alone. Game 7 of their most recent NBA Finals Kobe in game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals: 23 points, 6-for-24 shooting (0 for 6 from 3pt range), 25% FG, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 4 turnovers LeBron in game 7 of the 2013 NBA Finals: 37 points, 12 for 23 shooting (5 for 7 from 3pt range), 52% FG, 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 2 turnovers. LeBron clearly played better in his respective finals game 7, scoring more points, more efficiently from both 2 ant 3pt range, while he fell shot in rebounding in comparison to Bryant he accumulated more assists and steals while committing less turnovers; advantage LeBron. Overall Conclusion When you ask the majority of people “who’s more clutch?” more often than not they always reply with Kobe. Why is this? Because of the narrative that is put out there by the main-stream media that Kobe is an “assassin”, he’s a “killer” and you want the ball in his hands in the final moments of the game. Every year the NBA conducts a survey in which they ask all the head-coaches a series of questions ranging from who is the best player at each position to who is the most athletic player and so on and so forth. One of these questions is “who is the most clutch player?” Up until recently Kobe Bryant had been crowned “most clutch” in the league by coaches (Kevin Durant recently took his spot). But why is this? Because of the narrative! (Yes, even NBA coaches are fooled by the narrative, shocking isn’t it?) But it’s not just coaches, the NBA recently asked 26 NBA player who they’d rather have take the last shot; MJ, Kobe or LeBron and these are the results (below) . Poll results from 26 NBA players voting as to who they'd like to have take the last shot What do I mean by ‘narrative’? The ‘narrative’ is simply the story that’s put out there by main-stream media organisations such as ESPN. For example; after LeBron joined the Heat he missed 8 straight clutch shots in the regular season (clutch was defined as 4th Quarter of OT with under 10 seconds remaining). Now, while the regular season is important, it’s obvious that the post season and NBA Finals hold more weight than the regular season. Coincidently, Kobe has also missed his last 8 clutch (same definition) shots however this time these shots weren’t in the regular season but in the post season! LeBron is known by many fans as a “choker” whereas Kobe was still known as “clutch” despite the fact that he had missed the same number of shots in a more important situation! LeBron's 8 straight misses (and eventual make) after joining the Heat Rk Player Season ▴ Tm G FG FGA FG% FGX 3P 3PA 3P% 3PX eFG% Ast’d %Ast’d Kobe vs Gasol in the 4th quarter of the 2009 and 2010 NBA Finals Additionally, the majority of this blog post focuses solely on scoring however, even the most biased of Kobe-fans should be able to admit that LeBron is a far superior rebounder and passer to Kobe Bryant. Source: http://maryland.247sports.com/Board/59410/Lebron-is-amazing-in-elimination-games-stats-included-19394195/1 Credit to Basketball Reference for providing some of the statistics used. so here is what phil is thinking ....
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dk7th
Posts: 30006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 5/14/2012 Member: #4228 USA |
4/15/2016 5:33 PM
mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:How about this how many other players in the history of the nba have 37 game winning shots regardless of the percentage. Or How many players carried there team to get to game winning situations regardless of the outcome Kobe leads that by a mile as well. I'd hate to tell you this but your in the minority on this one. Kobe is regarded as the greatest closer of our time in the majority of the population golly that really distills down the different levels of player jordan and bryant were. bryant doesn't break my top ten greatest players. jordan/russell knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
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fitzfarm
Posts: 25286 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2010 Member: #3285 |
4/15/2016 6:51 PM
mreinman wrote:Sambakick wrote:You miss all the shots you don't take. There's a reason to ask Kobe to take those shots. He doesn't get rattled by the pressure of the big moment. He rises to the occasion. He won't make them all but 5 rings and 8th all time in wins. 3rd all time in points scored. I think you are letting your hate cloud your vision. I see what your saying and yes Jordan is the greatest but Kobe still has more experience with last sec shots then anyone ever. So regardless of what stats you throw out there Kobe will always be considered the best closer and he is by again 95 % of the population . And if Jordan and Kobe were on the same team down one with 10 sec to go it would be a flip of a coin for me on who I would want to take the last second shot. Regardless of the misses I know is Kobe is deadly he's made more last sec shots then Aneone in the history of the NBA . |
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/16/2016 9:20 PM
fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:Sambakick wrote:You miss all the shots you don't take. There's a reason to ask Kobe to take those shots. He doesn't get rattled by the pressure of the big moment. He rises to the occasion. He won't make them all but 5 rings and 8th all time in wins. 3rd all time in points scored. I think you are letting your hate cloud your vision. 100% of the population thought the world was flat. Saying that something is correct because (you believe) 95% of the population believe it is silly. there are 100 players that may be more clutch than kobe. Experience because he took so many? Is melo the most clutch player in the last 4 years because he took the most shots? Of course not, right? You can keep repeating the same argument that kobe made more game winning shots than any other player but if he took 5 times as many shots than you can't see how that plays into the equation? Don't mean to be rude but if you can't see this distinction then this discussion is pointless. so here is what phil is thinking ....
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fitzfarm
Posts: 25286 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2010 Member: #3285 |
4/16/2016 11:03 PM LAST EDITED: 4/16/2016 11:14 PM
mreinman wrote:fitzfarm wrote:mreinman wrote:Sambakick wrote:You miss all the shots you don't take. There's a reason to ask Kobe to take those shots. He doesn't get rattled by the pressure of the big moment. He rises to the occasion. He won't make them all but 5 rings and 8th all time in wins. 3rd all time in points scored. I think you are letting your hate cloud your vision. I keep repeating the came thing cause that's the common sense answer. Kobe has more experience with hitting the last second shot then anyone. So it should come to no suprise that 95% of everyone if given the pick of who you want taking the last second shot is Kobe. He has two of the most important records 37 game winning shots most ever in the history of the NBA. two the most last second shots for the win then any other player ever by a mile and why do you think Kobe has been allowed to do that? Cause everyone knows Kobe is the best closer in the game that's why he got the ball to end the game. Kobe has more ice in his vains then any other player. Just in experience and we are talking Kobe not a melo not a Paul gorge we are talking about a first ballot hof player. It's like saying with basesloaded with two outs in game 7 of the world series and you have a choice to put in jeter or a kid hitting 400 with no experience... 99% of people will go with jeter. Cause chances are jeter going to come through where the kid strikes out to end the game and his 400 average means nothing cause the season is over. If the manager made the mistake of not putting in jeter So many people would be pissed knowing jeter was on the bench quite possibly the most clutch player in the mlb regardless of percentage while this kid on a hot streak strikes out cause he has no ice in his vains ... Actually that mlb manager would probably be fired for not putting jeter in the game.where as if jeter strikes out that managers job is safe cause who in there right mind wouldn't put jeter/Kobe in for the most clutch situation It's like giving the ball to melo for the last second shot of game 7 of the championship because of percentage and letting Kobe inbound the ball ... That's the kinda **** that gets coaches fired regardless of the whack percentage bs is. Regardless of how you put it man Kobe will be considered the most clutch player of our time . And rightfully so he's made more and shot more game winning shots then anyone in the history of the NBA. Just the fact that he holds those records proves that the people (coaches) in charge trust Kobe to take that shot more then anyone else. |
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fitzfarm
Posts: 25286 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2010 Member: #3285 |
4/16/2016 11:08 PM LAST EDITED: 4/16/2016 11:24 PM
Again if people when by percentages all the time the world would be funked .i mean could you imagine the reaction if a coach let Paul gorge take the last second shot and missed while Kobe rode the bench ... Post game interview with the coach ... Why was the guy with the most game winning shots sitting on the bench ... "Well percentage wise we decided to go with a guy with a higher percentage for hitting the last second shot even though he's only hit 4 outta 6. While Kobe has made 37 ! .. Dude that coach would be fired immediately after the post game
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mreinman
Posts: 37827 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/14/2010 Member: #3189 |
4/16/2016 11:36 PM
fitzfarm wrote:Again if people when by percentages all the time the world would be funked .i mean could you imagine the reaction if a coach let Paul gorge take the last second shot and missed while Kobe rode the bench ... Post game interview with the coach ... Why was the guy with the most game winning shots sitting on the bench ... "Well percentage wise we decided to go with a guy with a higher percentage for hitting the last second shot even though he's only hit 4 outta 6. While Kobe has made 37 ! .. Dude that coach would be fired immediately after the post game Do some reading and you will be enlightened. http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/9/9/4683058/kobe-bryant-clutch-stephen-hawking so here is what phil is thinking ....
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