newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

According to you Jose Calderon is a solid PG for the triangle we have hand picked free agents such as Affalo Sasha our hand picked PG Grant Galloway. The bottom line is we stink--can we get better yes but the degree of improvement--eh Im not sure about that. It was Phil's call to bring in so many F's--my guess is he kind of understands how important Guards are in this league now.

And according to you R.Lopez and KP can't play together and G.Monroe would of been a better signing than R.Lopez and........................................

oh my BURN!!!!!

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

I think the best way to get our back court right is to be patient and not try to do it in one off season but do it in two off seasons. With the cap increases this off season and the next being right around $20 million each season we should get a legit PG/SG this off season and get the other the following off season. So in two years we have a legit starting 5 and work on the bench with getting solid pieces in both off seasons.

This call for patience is the right way to go. We've already signed one guard for next season, and if AA feels that he is worth more and needs to be appreciated elsewhere, his departure should not be hindered. I am sure with that extra 10 million, a suitable replacement can be found. The bench will be strengthened by our draft picks (One picked up during the draft) and additional signees from over the summer. Everything is coming together.

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

I think the best way to get our back court right is to be patient and not try to do it in one off season but do it in two off seasons. With the cap increases this off season and the next being right around $20 million each season we should get a legit PG/SG this off season and get the other the following off season. So in two years we have a legit starting 5 and work on the bench with getting solid pieces in both off seasons.

Every team in the NBA will have cap space though. Why would free agents pick New York over competitive teams with cap space? Also, the system we're running and coach matter too.

Cap Space doesn't equate getting quality players. With the exception of RoLo playing up to snuff, see 2015 New York Knicks free agent haul.

So not every team has cap space next year. And not every team with cap space needs the same type of player to fill out their roster.

The title contenders will not, but about 80% of the NBA teams this offseason will have cap space similar to New York's or much higher:

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/240096/The-Maximum-Available-2016-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams

Simple supply and demand model. Not enough good free agents, but near every team will want them (about 24 teams). Even if not every team wants Mike Conley and DeMar Derozan and Nicolas Batum, there's enough teams that are setup more favorably than New York. Some teams have enough cap space to cash in on 2 MAX free agents, so there's that possibility as well.

Who wouldn't want to play for Boston or Dallas that are only a few pieces away from making deep playoff runs rather than toil away in New York for the next 3 or 4 years being irrelevant.

So you just jumped from all teams will have cap space to 80% of teams will have cap space? Care to dig a little deeper and actually lay out the landscape for us?

I tried to do it back a few weeks ago. The below doesn't take into account opt outs and RFA, rookies, etc (good example is Beal in WAS):

				Salary
Rk	Team			2016-17 
1	Cleveland Cavaliers	$103,217,259 
2	San Antonio Spurs	$84,583,607 
3	Los Angeles Clippers	$83,949,072 
4	Toronto Raptors		$82,724,898 
5	Golden State Warriors	$80,023,544 
6	Chicago Bulls		$74,201,034 
7	New Orleans Pelicans	$71,967,511 
8	Houston Rockets		$71,242,899 
9	New York Knicks		$69,779,528 
10	Oklahoma City Thunder	$69,610,963 
11	Detroit Pistons		$69,150,393 
12	Minnesota Timberwolves	$68,933,517 
13	Sacramento Kings	$65,768,345 
14	Phoenix Suns		$64,221,231 
15	Memphis Grizzlies	$61,959,704 
16	Denver Nuggets		$61,725,530 
17	Dallas Mavericks	$61,315,955 
18	Utah Jazz		$60,906,285 
19	Milwaukee Bucks		$60,829,049 
20	Indiana Pacers		$59,242,253 
21	Portland Trail Blazers	$56,784,823 
22	Brooklyn Nets		$56,662,720 
23	Atlanta Hawks		$55,537,594 
24	Boston Celtics		$51,161,569 
25	Washington Wizards	$50,268,952 
26	Charlotte Hornets	$48,905,399 
27	Miami Heat		$48,881,586 
28	Orlando Magic		$44,908,271 
29	Philadelphia 76ers	$33,377,246 
30	Los Angeles Lakers	$26,101,518 

Here's a visual representation of where the Knicks stand. Right smack dab in the middle. Forget about the numbers, the initial estimate was $89 Mill, then they said $92 mill, now they're saying $95 mill...doesn't matter.

Basically alot more teams have more money to throw at the same free agents we'll be chasing.

outside of a nice pic you didn't add anything to what was already posted.

And by saying that "Basically alot more teams have more money to throw at the same free agents we'll be chasing." you are making an over generalization that adds nothing, it amounts to saying that every team will be under the cap.

The pic and my table lack one big caveat: free agents that will need to be retained, and that will be a showstopper to a lot of teams' cap space.

Also, notice that your pic has the Cavs with $28M in cap space. Something is wrong with that.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

According to you Jose Calderon is a solid PG for the triangle we have hand picked free agents such as Affalo Sasha our hand picked PG Grant Galloway. The bottom line is we stink--can we get better yes but the degree of improvement--eh Im not sure about that. It was Phil's call to bring in so many F's--my guess is he kind of understands how important Guards are in this league now.

And according to you R.Lopez and KP can't play together and G.Monroe would of been a better signing than R.Lopez and........................................

I said Melo Lopez and KP wont fit the bill together. I guess you must be watching another team because were not very good. When have they played well together once every 6 games? Its not exactly Bird Mchale Parrish

Yeah but you can't think that KP, Lopez, Melo is a finished product either, and they are without guard support so far.

Not saying that they will work but it's certainly VERY possible if KP and Rolo have decent offseasons.

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

I think the best way to get our back court right is to be patient and not try to do it in one off season but do it in two off seasons. With the cap increases this off season and the next being right around $20 million each season we should get a legit PG/SG this off season and get the other the following off season. So in two years we have a legit starting 5 and work on the bench with getting solid pieces in both off seasons.

Every team in the NBA will have cap space though. Why would free agents pick New York over competitive teams with cap space? Also, the system we're running and coach matter too.

Cap Space doesn't equate getting quality players. With the exception of RoLo playing up to snuff, see 2015 New York Knicks free agent haul.

I think Afflalo thought he could come to ny, step into a starting spot, put up great numbers and get a big contract. My guess is that there will be other players that see the opportunity to get playing time and go for that. No reason for David West or Kevin Martin to come but guys that want to prove themselves with minutes will.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

Sorry Fish, the talent is the least of out worries, and I say this because the knicks play the exact same way weather they are up by 20 or down, the energy level is flat line across the board.

I know talent is a must, but there is never any in game adjustments, and I MEAN NEVER.

This triangle sht requires a very good defensive unit, because mid range shots are shots that you hit consistently when your in rhythm, and if they are not falling, your defense has to be top notch, or else you'll lose leads.

It's really mostly about the talent!!! The lack of talent in the backcourt is leading to missing a huge part of the offense. That only leaves the jump shots. If you remove the penetration, pushing the ball leading to early offense and having guys that can create off the dribble in the halfcourt, then yeah the Triangle or ANY offense is gonna look pretty bad.

In a PnR heavy offense you can somewhat mask a lack of talent but even then it won't work without guards that can actually run a PnR. Just remember how Tony Douglass looked trying to run MDA's offense or how things fell off when Jason Kidd couldn't score anymore and teams took away the Tyson/Felton PnR. Well the Triangle gives you other options outside of a PnR, but you still need quality Backcourt players to make the offense whole. We're only seeing half of the offense.

When we had Shved in the mix the offense looked much more vibrant because he was supplying the other aspects of the game you need to make the Triangle flow and not be so stiff and predictable. Shved was no great player and even he was able to help make things work much better. Now just imagine a better player or a couple of better players added to this team and you can imagine the positive impact they could have.

the ball sticks like glue when defenses make the adjustment mid way through the game, we start making bad passes and ugly shots.

Are you saying rambis is a good coach? and has nothing to do with how the team is playing

nixluva wrote:Rambis isn't the reason we don't have enough guard penetration.

Rambis isn't the reason Jerian Grant only played 9 minutes each of the past two games?

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:And that is what we have right now... we have a frontcourt with no backcourt. Literally none.

That being said the frontcourt is pretty damn good. Lopez and KP are excellent together and compliment. Melo at 31 put up career best assist #s and it right at his career high for rebounds which bodes well when he slides to the 4 in smaller lineups.

If you have ever played basketball, or any team sport for that matter and have been on a different teams you would know that when one area is so totally weak and undermanned as our backcourt is it hurts your strengths. Your star RB, QB and WRs all look average or bad if your OLine stinks. No defense looks great when the pitcher on the mound is serving up laser beams and no front court will look good if your guards cant stay in front of their man or be enough of a scoring threat to space the floor.

I have read some doom and gloom about how much we stink and how there are 20 other teams better than us and I wonder if folks understand how team sports work?

A pair of good guards probably adds 15 or more wins to this team... easily.

This is not an easy fix. Getting good NBA talent is not easy. If it was Phil would be posting on UK and people would listen to Briggs. It is not a given we fix this, but the path is pretty clear and the rest of the parts look very very good.

I think the best way to get our back court right is to be patient and not try to do it in one off season but do it in two off seasons. With the cap increases this off season and the next being right around $20 million each season we should get a legit PG/SG this off season and get the other the following off season. So in two years we have a legit starting 5 and work on the bench with getting solid pieces in both off seasons.

Every team in the NBA will have cap space though. Why would free agents pick New York over competitive teams with cap space? Also, the system we're running and coach matter too.

Cap Space doesn't equate getting quality players. With the exception of RoLo playing up to snuff, see 2015 New York Knicks free agent haul.

So not every team has cap space next year. And not every team with cap space needs the same type of player to fill out their roster.

The title contenders will not, but about 80% of the NBA teams this offseason will have cap space similar to New York's or much higher:

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/240096/The-Maximum-Available-2016-Cap-Space-For-All-30-NBA-Teams

Simple supply and demand model. Not enough good free agents, but near every team will want them (about 24 teams). Even if not every team wants Mike Conley and DeMar Derozan and Nicolas Batum, there's enough teams that are setup more favorably than New York. Some teams have enough cap space to cash in on 2 MAX free agents, so there's that possibility as well.

Who wouldn't want to play for Boston or Dallas that are only a few pieces away from making deep playoff runs rather than toil away in New York for the next 3 or 4 years being irrelevant.

So you just jumped from all teams will have cap space to 80% of teams will have cap space? Care to dig a little deeper and actually lay out the landscape for us?

I tried to do it back a few weeks ago. The below doesn't take into account opt outs and RFA, rookies, etc (good example is Beal in WAS):

				Salary
Rk	Team			2016-17 
1	Cleveland Cavaliers	$103,217,259 
2	San Antonio Spurs	$84,583,607 
3	Los Angeles Clippers	$83,949,072 
4	Toronto Raptors		$82,724,898 
5	Golden State Warriors	$80,023,544 
6	Chicago Bulls		$74,201,034 
7	New Orleans Pelicans	$71,967,511 
8	Houston Rockets		$71,242,899 
9	New York Knicks		$69,779,528 
10	Oklahoma City Thunder	$69,610,963 
11	Detroit Pistons		$69,150,393 
12	Minnesota Timberwolves	$68,933,517 
13	Sacramento Kings	$65,768,345 
14	Phoenix Suns		$64,221,231 
15	Memphis Grizzlies	$61,959,704 
16	Denver Nuggets		$61,725,530 
17	Dallas Mavericks	$61,315,955 
18	Utah Jazz		$60,906,285 
19	Milwaukee Bucks		$60,829,049 
20	Indiana Pacers		$59,242,253 
21	Portland Trail Blazers	$56,784,823 
22	Brooklyn Nets		$56,662,720 
23	Atlanta Hawks		$55,537,594 
24	Boston Celtics		$51,161,569 
25	Washington Wizards	$50,268,952 
26	Charlotte Hornets	$48,905,399 
27	Miami Heat		$48,881,586 
28	Orlando Magic		$44,908,271 
29	Philadelphia 76ers	$33,377,246 
30	Los Angeles Lakers	$26,101,518 

Here's a visual representation of where the Knicks stand. Right smack dab in the middle. Forget about the numbers, the initial estimate was $89 Mill, then they said $92 mill, now they're saying $95 mill...doesn't matter.

Basically alot more teams have more money to throw at the same free agents we'll be chasing.

outside of a nice pic you didn't add anything to what was already posted.

And by saying that "Basically alot more teams have more money to throw at the same free agents we'll be chasing." you are making an over generalization that adds nothing, it amounts to saying that every team will be under the cap.

The pic and my table lack one big caveat: free agents that will need to be retained, and that will be a showstopper to a lot of teams' cap space.

Also, notice that your pic has the Cavs with $28M in cap space. Something is wrong with that.

Also many of the teams in the league have guards and have needs at other positions. Not every team is going to competing with us for the available guards we'll be hunting. Some teams are not going to be big Free Agent buyers even with all that cap space. Every team's situation is different.

In any event this is going to be a very interesting offseason. The Knicks don't have to completely revamp the roster again and they don't have to get everything they want in one summer. They shouldn't feel pressure to overpay for a player that isn't really worth it in terms of their talent. Aside from the very important task of improving the team you also must "Do No Harm". Making a bad deal can be worse than no deal and I think Phil realizes that now more than ever.

Personally I'd be happy if the Knicks just stashed that money and spend minimally this season and make 2017 and 2018 a priority since we're not winning anything of consequence next year as well.

Get the big time free agents when KP is starting to turn the corner to superstardom.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Rambis isn't the reason we don't have enough guard penetration.

Rambis isn't the reason Jerian Grant only played 9 minutes each of the past two games?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/715187473916231682