jrodmc wrote:

Once the playoffs became unrealistic a smartly run team would have preserved Melo, experimented with an offense revolving around Porzingis and Grant’s skills, and used two or three roster spots to try to find cheap talent to add to the team gong forward.

Preserve Melo for what? Another 29 win Larry Brown season? Hey, Mr. aptly named BGibberman, welcome to New York City, where we have all the patience of a microwave with the runs. Where every other line in every rag in this city is "THIRD YEAR WITHOUT THE PLAYOFFS". I love this line of logic. Preserve Melo, like adopting the Popovich approach is going to suddenly make Melo more attractive to other teams. "Hey look, our hands down best player is now going to sit the bench two or three times a week, and we're also instituting a nice minutes restriction! But please, don't take that to mean he's not worth that huge investment we made in him! Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled first round draft picks....pretty please...?"

Grant's skills? What exactly are those at this point? Being 6'6" with a fine lineage?

Preserve Melo for the physical for when we trade him after he waives his No Trade Clause.

EnySpree wrote:

mreinman wrote:splendid and dead on article. Been saying this sh1t for how long? Geeeeez. We are back to clogging the paint and letting threes rain and sh1t ... puhhhhrfukked.

It was also obvious that Fisher was trying to go more pnr and phil said not on my fukking triangle watch.

pretty clear no matter how many times nixluva says "wroten blah blah" that phil has no idea wtf he is doing and is obviously no GM and certainly not a GM with an eye for todays game.

This team is not as bad as he is making them. Clap clap clap. Legacy = tainted.

Can he fix this? Sure. Allow steve mills to run the show (geeeeeeeez how sad is that), hire a top non triangle-putz coach, and stick to instagram.

This entire post is the reason I hate all "knicks" fans nowadays.

Fisher was not trying to add pick and roll to the triangle. It's already in the triangle. Fishers offense doesn't look any different than what we are doing now. Guys just want to make that point stock just to further slander the "triangle". Truth is you don't even know what an nba offense is. "More modern offense" is the new catch phrase now that golden state is on top. How do you use that to fuel the argument that 2 years as a knicks GM tarnished a 20 year domination of the nba winning 11 championships. It's garbage.

the only argument you can make is Phil can't get talent here. That's not entirely his fault. Players don't want to come here. They would rather sign with other teams and come off the bench than come here and start. That's not because of the triangle. Is because of the media, ignorant fans and piss poor ownership. Who wants to deal with that stufff on purpose when you can go to basically any other team and won with less of a headache?

Anyway this is by far the best shape we have been in as a franchise since Ewing was drafted or the summer we signed Allan Houston. The thing is in those eras, players wantedito play on the Knicks. Guys wanted to sign here. We have to build that back up again. I think Phil is doing a great job cleaning up. I just think it's disgusting to have to argue that after all we've been through. Let fans tell it and you would think this is the worst time to ever be a knicks fan. We've definitely been through worse. We're actually on the come up. Yet here we are arguing about it

no ... you are the one who does not know what you are looking at.

nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson didn't go after guards like that because none of them were available last summer. All the top talent was in the front court mode. Aldridge. DeAndre. Marc Gasol, even. Most of the talent was big man heavy.

It beats me why so many think that Phil should blow all NY's free agency wad on players that will not put NY on a championship level. They want Phil to do exactly what every other GM in the last 2 decades has. Overpay for name power and not actual value on the court.

Sure Calderon and Afflalo (And Grant, Gallo, Sasha) aren't enough. How much has Phil really invested in them? 18 million is left owed to those players. Most of them won't even be here in 1 year. The free agency money will allow Phil to address the backcourt needs. In the meantime he has added major talent in the front court with Porzingis and Lopez.

Look around the league, rare that teams can completely re-build a roster within 1 year. And think about where the Knicks would have drafted had they not been as bad as they were last season. Forget about Porzingis if you're drafting 10th, 12th or somewhere like that.

The only thing I want Phil to do is realize that Rambis is not the man for the job. Rambis is a good assistant. He needs to hire Luke Walton, or give other proven NBA coaches a look. Or if the itch really is still there. come back and coach 2 years. Certainly would shut people up, in regards to those who think he isn't worth the contract Dolan gave him.

On your last thing about Phil not being worth his contract, who cares?? It doesn't do anything to our salary cap so why does anyone even care how much Dolan is paying him?? I don't care how much he's getting from Dolan. Even though i don't want Rambis as our full time head coach, i do think with some good talent on this team he can do a good job coaching but i think he'd be better as an assistant to a Thibs or S.Brooks. It's been said many times that it's a players league and if you have the talent you can win games with a competent head coach. We all know that we need help in our back court more than anything and i really don't see Phil getting any of the guards that will be commanding a max contract or close to it so he's gonna have to find the right guards to give us what we need without breaking the bank and we really can't even start to speculate on who we can bring in until we know if A.Afflalo and D.Williams will be coming back or not and for me i'd rather neither one come back and hope he uses the stretch provision on Jose. If we are without those 3 we go from having $18/$19 million to about $36/$38 million whi9ch would be huge for us cause then we could sell some of these bigger names on the fact that we can bring in not one but two significant players to come in and play with Melo, KP and Rolo which could help us in taking a big step forward.

ChuckBuck wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Once the playoffs became unrealistic a smartly run team would have preserved Melo, experimented with an offense revolving around Porzingis and Grant’s skills, and used two or three roster spots to try to find cheap talent to add to the team gong forward.

Preserve Melo for what? Another 29 win Larry Brown season? Hey, Mr. aptly named BGibberman, welcome to New York City, where we have all the patience of a microwave with the runs. Where every other line in every rag in this city is "THIRD YEAR WITHOUT THE PLAYOFFS". I love this line of logic. Preserve Melo, like adopting the Popovich approach is going to suddenly make Melo more attractive to other teams. "Hey look, our hands down best player is now going to sit the bench two or three times a week, and we're also instituting a nice minutes restriction! But please, don't take that to mean he's not worth that huge investment we made in him! Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled first round draft picks....pretty please...?"

Grant's skills? What exactly are those at this point? Being 6'6" with a fine lineage?

Preserve Melo for the physical for when we trade him after he waives his No Trade Clause.

are you confident that the kknicks can trade melo into something better..give me a time in the last 2 decades, that the knicks made a good move, trading their best player usually results in a even more fck up contract, weak role players, and garbage draft picks like nate robinson, ariza, sweetney, frye..oh gosh the list will never end

It's not about getting equal value at this point, his trade value is rapidly diminishing by the day. It's about getting something before it equals nothing and before he experiences a career ending injury, which is very possible.

We're not winning a championship during Melo's remaining 3 years, this is already fact. We may not even make the playoffs in 3 years, this is debatable, but not far off since the rest of the East has gotten better.

We need to move on, and acquire young talent, hungry vets, and hit home runs in the draft. We show steady improvement with KP, add some studs in the lottery hopefully, then swing for the fences with key free agents in 2018 and beyond.

That's what it's all about right now.

Doesn't matter what route we take, we all depend on the same amount of luck and hope. As shown in the other thread, I can sell just as many dreams. Knicks need to put more focus on being a stable org rather then one changing Directions, Players, Coaches, GMs, Prez every couple of yrs.

What your proposing is what every team in the league who goes full rebuild tries to accomplish. What is the success rate though?

Wariors, Spurs, Heat, Mavs, Lakers, Celtics, Pistons have won the championships over the last 10-11yrs. How many of them followed this plan of to winning a championship?

newyorker4ever wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Cory Joseph was apparently out there for the taking.

I like this kid and was talking about him last off season. He came from the Spurs organization so he already had the time practicing and being around a top organization and top level coach and players but he chose to go to Toronto. I would still like to find a way to get him cause he's playing good ball backing up Lowry. I'm not sure how his contract is with them but he would be a nice get and wouldn't kill our cap.

and why didn't phil go for him? Only some UK posters realized that he was a good player and afflalo was not? And that we needed a PG not a chucker 2?

Maybe phil did reach out ... who knows

Or we can just be a good competitive playoff team next few years by dumping Phil and getting a good coach that is not too old to actually coach. And a young GM that won't place the Triangle before winning. And at rhe same time, work on a plan to dump Dolan at one of the solitary confinement rooms at Creedmoor.

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Never hire an old guy living in the past to take on the task of guiding you through the future!!

You mean like Popovich?

Even Pop wouldn't help this **** show. And he doesn't have Phil's HUGE EGO.

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Once the playoffs became unrealistic a smartly run team would have preserved Melo, experimented with an offense revolving around Porzingis and Grant’s skills, and used two or three roster spots to try to find cheap talent to add to the team gong forward.

Preserve Melo for what? Another 29 win Larry Brown season? Hey, Mr. aptly named BGibberman, welcome to New York City, where we have all the patience of a microwave with the runs. Where every other line in every rag in this city is "THIRD YEAR WITHOUT THE PLAYOFFS". I love this line of logic. Preserve Melo, like adopting the Popovich approach is going to suddenly make Melo more attractive to other teams. "Hey look, our hands down best player is now going to sit the bench two or three times a week, and we're also instituting a nice minutes restriction! But please, don't take that to mean he's not worth that huge investment we made in him! Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled first round draft picks....pretty please...?"

Grant's skills? What exactly are those at this point? Being 6'6" with a fine lineage?

Preserve Melo for the physical for when we trade him after he waives his No Trade Clause.

are you confident that the kknicks can trade melo into something better..give me a time in the last 2 decades, that the knicks made a good move, trading their best player usually results in a even more fck up contract, weak role players, and garbage draft picks like nate robinson, ariza, sweetney, frye..oh gosh the list will never end

It's not about getting equal value at this point, his trade value is rapidly diminishing by the day. It's about getting something before it equals nothing and before he experiences a career ending injury, which is very possible.

We're not winning a championship during Melo's remaining 3 years, this is already fact. We may not even make the playoffs in 3 years, this is debatable, but not far off since the rest of the East has gotten better.

We need to move on, and acquire young talent, hungry vets, and hit home runs in the draft. We show steady improvement with KP, add some studs in the lottery hopefully, then swing for the fences with key free agents in 2018 and beyond.

That's what it's all about right now.

Doesn't matter what route we take, we all depend on the same amount of luck and hope. As shown in the other thread, I can sell just as many dreams. Knicks need to put more focus on being a stable org rather then one changing Directions, Players, Coaches, GMs, Prez every couple of yrs.

What your proposing is what every team in the league who goes full rebuild tries to accomplish. What is the success rate though?

Wariors, Spurs, Heat, Mavs, Lakers, Celtics, Pistons have won the championships over the last 10-11yrs. How many of them followed this plan of to winning a championship?

Warriors - Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes

Spurs - Duncan, Manu, Parker, Kawhi

Lakers - Kobe, Bynum and then went after free agents

Celtics - Pierce endured several long years in Boston, before they mortgaged several of their young talent and picks for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen, then proceeded to draft a gem in Rondo

In fact, if Melo's amenable, he should take a page out of KG's playbook since he was also 31 at the time he was traded to Celtics. It's Melo only real shot at winning.

Long story short, besides the few instances in Detroit and Miami superfriending, you need some draft studs and young assets before you can either sprinkle free agents to get there or make a blockbuster trade.

Knicks only have 1 young stud asset. Need to accumulate more.

None of these teams went the *route* you are talking about to acquire these players.

Warriors traded us Al Harrington for Jamal Crawford and Signed Corey Maggette to pair with Monta Ellis, Steven Jackson and Biendrins under Don Nelson. They then landed Curry after Ellis got injured and played only 25 games. They then cleared Cap Space by trading Crawford and Jackson to sign and trade for David Lee to put next to the Ellis, Curry, Maggette, Biendrins hoping that would be a playoff team.

Manu was a 2nd rd pick, Parker was the last pick in the first round. Kawahi was #15 (all these were mid to late picks which you stated and I quote were "shytty")

Kobe was the #13th pick in the draft to boost a mediocre team. No tanking required. Bynum was the #10th pick to boost a mediocre team and was more of a high level role player anyway.

Al Jefferson #17th "shytty" draft pick, Gerald Green #18th "shytty" draft pick, Ryan Gomes 2nd rd pick, Telfair #13 thrown in prospect who they traded for a yr prior from Portland. And 2 future first round draft picks plus Theo Ratliff. None of these pieces that were moved in the trade required tanking to acquire.

ChuckBuck wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:You trade Melo you need something proven back. Can't bank it all on hopefully the draft pick coming back turns into a stud.

Mavs let Steve Nash walk because they felt he was on the decline and they traded Jamison to the Wiz for there top 5 pick and grabbed Devin Harris. Harris turned into an average player, Nash turned into MVP(no Im not saying this will happen for Melo). Mavs then later on trade Harris for Jason Kidd since the Nets now wanted to rebuild with youth. Kidd helps Mavs win a championship. Harris helps Nets remain in the lottery.

And i'm sure there are stories of the reverse happening. At the end of the day the same amount of luck and hope is needed.

There are no guarantees of success in the draft, but at the same time there's a hard certainty that Melo won't win a ring in New York. It's fact already.

Do you want to wallow in mediocrity, or do you want to change course and at least have a chance?

So you think we should trade our best player, who even with bad knees has put up numbers we can use in the next three years, for let's say a Frank Kaminsky type pick (Lottery, a Gerian Grant (Late 1st rounder) type pick and a Second rounder (Cleanthony Early) type pick. Just because you dislike him because of whatever personal feeling you have of him? (Real rational)......ummm NO.