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Early end of season assessment of our Knicks
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franco12
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3/16/2016  2:55 PM
EnySpree wrote:Starting 5 of:

Kristaps
Melo
Rolo
Wroten
Eric Gordon/Thorton/Fournier

9 man rotation:
Grant
Galloway/Sasha
O'Quinn
CCleananthony

if they all improve and live up to potential. They should win. If the Knicks maintain cap flexibility, 2017 is going to be the big year to attract and secure a big free agent.

If that is our roster, why do I think we'll be staring at another lost season? An older Melo is just as likely next year to tweak an ankle/knee as he was this season. 35 wins- lousy draft pick and a another off season of disappointment to look forward to - especially as I bet Dolan is impatient and forces PJ out. Isiah 2.0!

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knicks1248
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3/16/2016  2:57 PM
fishmike wrote:Knicks are going to max out a 2guard... Batum or Derozan, than hope to get a defender Ron Harper type to play PG. Hard to envision anything else.


I don't see either of their names on the list

derozen is easily a max guy, and makes this team a instant contender

ES
crzymdups
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3/16/2016  2:57 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:Knicks are going to max out a 2guard... Batum or Derozan, than hope to get a defender Ron Harper type to play PG. Hard to envision anything else.

Phil may need to actually coach the homes games next yr and convince Derozan that he could be Jordan, Kobe in the tri and sign with us. Hopefully Toronto has an ugly playoff exit.

Man, I think DeRozan is gonna get a five year max in Toronto. I don't see him leaving.

Batum... maybe.

¿ △ ?
EnySpree
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3/16/2016  3:04 PM
franco12 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Starting 5 of:

Kristaps
Melo
Rolo
Wroten
Eric Gordon/Thorton/Fournier

9 man rotation:
Grant
Galloway/Sasha
O'Quinn
CCleananthony

if they all improve and live up to potential. They should win. If the Knicks maintain cap flexibility, 2017 is going to be the big year to attract and secure a big free agent.

If that is our roster, why do I think we'll be staring at another lost season? An older Melo is just as likely next year to tweak an ankle/knee as he was this season. 35 wins- lousy draft pick and a another off season of disappointment to look forward to - especially as I bet Dolan is impatient and forces PJ out. Isiah 2.0!

Only way to make this better is if we sign Derozen. We can only get better based on the market. Teams don't want to trade with us and players don't want to sign here until we make the playoffs on our own. That's our reality. Not Phil's fault. It's Dolan fault. Phil had us in the right health going forward. That's why I'm looking at throw away players like Eric Gordon and Marcus Thornton. Those guys will be cheap and they both can score in bunches. Both still in their 20s

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yellowboy90
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3/16/2016  3:06 PM
I think the knicks should take a moderate gamble on Sergey Karasev. They take Larkin and the knicks take Sergey
EnySpree
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3/16/2016  5:56 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I think the knicks should take a moderate gamble on Sergey Karasev. They take Larkin and the knicks take Sergey

Huh? Were you aware Larkin isn't on this team anymore?

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yellowboy90
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3/16/2016  6:00 PM
EnySpree wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think the knicks should take a moderate gamble on Sergey Karasev. They take Larkin and the knicks take Sergey

Huh? Were you aware Larkin isn't on this team anymore?

yes, I know this. Brooklyn took a moderate chance on Larkin(former Knick). I'm saying the Knicks should return the favor and take a moderate chance one of their under performing players, Sergey.

Take, not meaning trade but FA transaction. Sorry if I wasn't so clear.

Paris907
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3/16/2016  7:42 PM
I am a fan of Thibs as coach but he's not a Phil guy.
M not sold on guards that can't shoot. Hallway is Gritty and a better shooter then Grant.

Afflalo signing changes lots and i think he should come off the bench w Williams and Cleanthony as an athletic trio wi Galloway or Grant or both.

Fournier / Batum are important. Let Wroten and Batum or Fournier start with KP Lopez and Melo (unless he waived his NTC).

dk7th
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3/16/2016  8:19 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:no DWill?

why is it I think this guys got great talent/athleticism, things we need, and yet, to me, our team hasn't gotten the most out of him?

it's a two-way street: he gets a chance to stay and develop some triangle skills or he decides he can remain the player he is and find a team who wants that. i like him a lot but if he decides to stay he needs to develop some post game, meaning footwork and ambidexterity off of post moves and power dribbles. he is also an undeveloped passer, meaning i think he needs to keep his head up and be less tentative.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
EnySpree
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3/16/2016  10:44 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I think the knicks should take a moderate gamble on Sergey Karasev. They take Larkin and the knicks take Sergey

Huh? Were you aware Larkin isn't on this team anymore?

yes, I know this. Brooklyn took a moderate chance on Larkin(former Knick). I'm saying the Knicks should return the favor and take a moderate chance one of their under performing players, Sergey.

Take, not meaning trade but FA transaction. Sorry if I wasn't so clear.

Oh ok I got you and I'm wit it. We have to be thrift shoppers in free agency. I like Sergey

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EnySpree
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3/16/2016  10:56 PM
dk7th wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:no DWill?

why is it I think this guys got great talent/athleticism, things we need, and yet, to me, our team hasn't gotten the most out of him?

it's a two-way street: he gets a chance to stay and develop some triangle skills or he decides he can remain the player he is and find a team who wants that. i like him a lot but if he decides to stay he needs to develop some post game, meaning footwork and ambidexterity off of post moves and power dribbles. he is also an undeveloped passer, meaning i think he needs to keep his head up and be less tentative.

Thats all the exact reason he doesn't get alot of minutes. We need professional players. Self motivated. We can't be teaching veteran guys how to play the game. D Will is 24-25 but he's got 5 years experience. We need guys that already know the game. Basketball is basketball. Either you can play or not. HaVing to play a certain way just to make a few players happy is not good business. There are pros out there we just have to find them. That's the difference between a good and bad team.

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nixluva
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3/17/2016  2:28 PM
What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.
EnySpree
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3/17/2016  3:30 PM
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard

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nixluva
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3/17/2016  6:27 PM
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.
mreinman
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3/18/2016  12:14 AM
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.

one thing about early is that we don't know sh1t about him. know why?

sure lets bring in wroten to watch sasha shoot us out of the triangle.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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3/18/2016  2:15 AM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.

one thing about early is that we don't know sh1t about him. know why?

sure lets bring in wroten to watch sasha shoot us out of the triangle.

Why are you going on about Early when my post is about Kent Bazemore?

mreinman
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3/18/2016  9:52 AM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.

one thing about early is that we don't know sh1t about him. know why?

sure lets bring in wroten to watch sasha shoot us out of the triangle.

Why are you going on about Early when my post is about Kent Bazemore?

I think that you missed my point.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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3/18/2016  1:12 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.

one thing about early is that we don't know sh1t about him. know why?

sure lets bring in wroten to watch sasha shoot us out of the triangle.

Why are you going on about Early when my post is about Kent Bazemore?

I think that you missed my point.


Perhaps if you actually made CLEAR and THOROUGH posts there would be less of an issue. Stop being lazy and put a full argument together when you post. Why are you so in love with being vague and cute in your responses? Speak plainly and say what you mean.
mreinman
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3/18/2016  2:39 PM
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.

one thing about early is that we don't know sh1t about him. know why?

sure lets bring in wroten to watch sasha shoot us out of the triangle.

Why are you going on about Early when my post is about Kent Bazemore?

I think that you missed my point.


Perhaps if you actually made CLEAR and THOROUGH posts there would be less of an issue. Stop being lazy and put a full argument together when you post. Why are you so in love with being vague and cute in your responses? Speak plainly and say what you mean.

I think that most posters know exactly where I stand. I don't know why you are having such a difficult time with it.

There is no need to create a 40 line response with a bunch of meaningless pictures. Nobody reads that sh1t.

I can topple an argument that is 100 lines long with one line, you know why? Because you don't have a clue of how to understand data. Stop with the horrible inferred logical conclusions. They are terrible.

"chances are that Tony wroten will not be a good player and that he will not be here long term"

response

"how do you know? He could also be here long term and he can be very good. Look at x who is very good"

oy vey

so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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3/18/2016  2:53 PM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nixluva wrote:What do you guys think it would take to get Kent Bazemore from ATL? I'm looking at him very seriously at this point. He's the kind of young 2 way player I think this team needs. I'm wondering how far ATL would go in trying to retain him. The kid has an excellent defensive rating and he has a live body and can shoot. I wonder if Phil is prepared to dig deep to lure him away.

I think we already have a Kent Bazemore on the roster in Cleananthony Early. They basically have the sane game. Bazemore finally got it this year. Maybe Early can finally put it together for us next year.

As far as how we'd use Bazemore? I think he would be a bench player plaYing Derrick williams/lance thomas role. I don't see him as a shooting guard


One thing about Kent is that he's more advanced than Early at this point. Similar but he's already proven he can defend at a high level. His defensive rating is an excellent 99.3 and offensive rating is 103.7. I could actually see him possibly starting due to his good off ball game. I think he can play next to any of our young guards and won't interfere with KP or Melo since he doesn't have to have the ball to be effective.

one thing about early is that we don't know sh1t about him. know why?

sure lets bring in wroten to watch sasha shoot us out of the triangle.

Why are you going on about Early when my post is about Kent Bazemore?

I think that you missed my point.


Perhaps if you actually made CLEAR and THOROUGH posts there would be less of an issue. Stop being lazy and put a full argument together when you post. Why are you so in love with being vague and cute in your responses? Speak plainly and say what you mean.

I think that most posters know exactly where I stand. I don't know why you are having such a difficult time with it.

There is no need to create a 40 line response with a bunch of meaningless pictures. Nobody reads that sh1t.

I can topple an argument that is 100 lines long with one line, you know why? Because you don't have a clue of how to understand data. Stop with the horrible inferred logical conclusions. They are terrible.

"chances are that Tony wroten will not be a good player and that he will not be here long term"

response

"how do you know? He could also be here long term and he can be very good. Look at x who is very good"

oy vey


You assume too much. MOST posters don't get much from your posts because MOST of your posts don't have a damn thing in them. You think posting Percentage of chance for success is the end all be all when it's really not in every case.

You purposefully oversimplify what others are saying just to make yourself look good. The problem is that you don't always have enough statistical information to make a good statistical prediction. You aren't taking into account the stage of development or situation that a player was playing in. You aren't taking into account how a player will fit a given role that can either help or hurt a player's production. You aren't taking into account that one coach might be able to get thru to a player where other coaches have failed. You can't tell how a player will get along with new teammates versus his previous teammates. You can't know how a player will evolve in the future.

Early end of season assessment of our Knicks

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