dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:they should be trying to pry evan turner away from the celtics to replace afflalo. that's a big upgrade.

i'd also go after horford and fournier.

I think Evans would be a good replacement for DWill.

Horford though? Rather spend $ on wings?

for me it's about defensive length, a willingness to pass the ball, and depth. i wouldn't expect him to play more than 24-28 minutes a game. he is an excellent defender according to drpm and his usage to assist ratio is elite. perfect triangle player.

the knicks acquire turner and horford it would be a HUGE offseason. in fact i'm going to make it my sig right now.

why in the world would horford sign here?

i can see the knicks overpaying evan turner - a slasher who cant shoot

fournier -wont be available. thats why orlando traded away harris - so they can resign him

i think realistic targets are bjennings, and bazemore

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:they should be trying to pry evan turner away from the celtics to replace afflalo. that's a big upgrade.

i'd also go after horford and fournier.

I think Evans would be a good replacement for DWill.

Horford though? Rather spend $ on wings?

for me it's about defensive length, a willingness to pass the ball, and depth. i wouldn't expect him to play more than 24-28 minutes a game. he is an excellent defender according to drpm and his usage to assist ratio is elite. perfect triangle player.

the knicks acquire turner and horford it would be a HUGE offseason. in fact i'm going to make it my sig right now.

why in the world would horford sign here?

i can see the knicks overpaying evan turner - a slasher who cant shoot

fournier -wont be available. thats why orlando traded away harris - so they can resign him

i think realistic targets are bjennings, and bazemore

jennings for cheap - 7-8 per and bazemore for closer to 10 I'm ok with. Not more $.

Evan turner is an awful player yet his name keeps coming up. WHY? I DON'T GET HOW FANS ARE SO SO WAY OFF (not you but everyone).

And guess what ... some silly teams will over pay for even frekin-turner.

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:they should be trying to pry evan turner away from the celtics to replace afflalo. that's a big upgrade.

i'd also go after horford and fournier.

I think Evans would be a good replacement for DWill.

Horford though? Rather spend $ on wings?

for me it's about defensive length, a willingness to pass the ball, and depth. i wouldn't expect him to play more than 24-28 minutes a game. he is an excellent defender according to drpm and his usage to assist ratio is elite. perfect triangle player.

the knicks acquire turner and horford it would be a HUGE offseason. in fact i'm going to make it my sig right now.

why in the world would horford sign here?

i can see the knicks overpaying evan turner - a slasher who cant shoot

fournier -wont be available. thats why orlando traded away harris - so they can resign him

i think realistic targets are bjennings, and bazemore

Turner is the type of player we would overpay, i agree. As a starter, he's not a great option here. He can do a little of everything except shoot, but this is a shooter's league. We need a shooter at the SG position. Bazemore is a nice option. He is a 2-way player who can shoot and should get better.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I like Affalo off the bench

Even with a poor team performance so far tonight, i like the idea of Afflalo and Dwill coming off the bench next season. That's some good fire power and both players compliment each other. Afflalo can bring the iso scoring weapon and Dwill the athletic slasher/finisher. That's a nice combo to have off the bench.

Kp and Affalo off the bench might be part of a good idea for next year. I would try to trade melo for draft picks as the time issue is not on our side

Finestrg wrote:I'll take a crack at it. They'd never do it like this--Melo's already putting pressure on Phil to do "something big" (who he has in mind and thinks is coming here, God only knows.. Rondo? Conley Jr.? Batum?), but I wouldn't mind seeing something like the following:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless

I think you're on the right track.

I'd still favor Jennings over Bayless, because he's better at getting to the paint and setting up others. Though Bayless is shooting very well this year. I'd go for Jennings first, but Bayless isn't a bad second option.

For SG, I'd really target Courtney Lee - he's playing fantastic all around ball on Charlotte, including defense, and his shooting has been great. And Charlotte has to focus on signing Batum, Marvin Williams, Jeremy Lamb, Jeremy Lin, and trying to flesh out their front court. Might be able to swoop in and swipe Lee with a solid offer.

For the third guard we clearly need, I might even look at Bayless then. I'd look at Evan Turner for the third guard role, too - but how great would it be to get Jennings, Bayless, and Courtney Lee? All guards bring something different to the mix and fill out a lot of needs. Courtney Lee can play small ball 3 and let us go a little smaller and faster at times, too.

We stretch Jose and let Afflalo walk, we'd have about $34-37M to work with. Is that enough to get Jennings, Bayless, Lee, and Hernangomez? I think it might be.

PG: Jennings, Bayless, Grant
SG: Courtney Lee, Galloway, Wroten
SF: Melo, Lance Thomas
PF: KP, DWill
C: Rolo, Hernangomez, KOQ

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I'll take a crack at it. They'd never do it like this--Melo's already putting pressure on Phil to do "something big" (who he has in mind and thinks is coming here, God only knows.. Rondo? Conley Jr.? Batum?), but I wouldn't mind seeing something like the following:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless

I think you're on the right track.

I'd still favor Jennings over Bayless, because he's better at getting to the paint and setting up others. Though Bayless is shooting very well this year. I'd go for Jennings first, but Bayless isn't a bad second option.

For SG, I'd really target Courtney Lee - he's playing fantastic all around ball on Charlotte, including defense, and his shooting has been great. And Charlotte has to focus on signing Batum, Marvin Williams, Jeremy Lamb, Jeremy Lin, and trying to flesh out their front court. Might be able to swoop in and swipe Lee with a solid offer.

For the third guard we clearly need, I might even look at Bayless then - how great would it be to get Jennings, Bayless and Courtney Lee? All guards bring something different to the mix and fill out a lot of needs.

PG: Jennings, Bayless, Grant
SG: Courtney Lee, Galloway, Wroten
SF: Melo, Lance Thomas
PF: KP, DWill
C: Rolo, Hernangomez, KOQ

Let me ask you -- how high would you go for Bayless? I used the contract Cory Joseph got from Toronto as a point of reference -- 4 yrs/$30mm. I think Joseph's had a spotty year for the Raptors--that contract looks like an overpay now. Bayless has had the better year...No doubt Bayless looks at what Joseph got as a starting point for a contract. Might be looking for even more than that, esp. with the cap set to balloon. Then again, the Bucks only gave him a 2-yr deal for $6mm total when they signed him before last year.

What about two years $18M for Bayless - give him an opt out a la Afflalo - he can get more money next summer when the cap explodes again if he has a good season. If he prefers security of a longer term deal, try 4yrs $36M? Though I get a little nervous about giving Bayless a longer term deal for some reason.

One thing - I think guys might try to max out and get the longest deal they can this off-season because there is a potential lockout in 2017 and the cap could be brought back down. So this is the summer for guys to get long term deals, if that's what they want.

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I'll take a crack at it. They'd never do it like this--Melo's already putting pressure on Phil to do "something big" (who he has in mind and thinks is coming here, God only knows.. Rondo? Conley Jr.? Batum?), but I wouldn't mind seeing something like the following:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless

I think you're on the right track.

I'd still favor Jennings over Bayless, because he's better at getting to the paint and setting up others. Though Bayless is shooting very well this year. I'd go for Jennings first, but Bayless isn't a bad second option.

For SG, I'd really target Courtney Lee - he's playing fantastic all around ball on Charlotte, including defense, and his shooting has been great. And Charlotte has to focus on signing Batum, Marvin Williams, Jeremy Lamb, Jeremy Lin, and trying to flesh out their front court. Might be able to swoop in and swipe Lee with a solid offer.

For the third guard we clearly need, I might even look at Bayless then. I'd look at Evan Turner for the third guard role, too - but how great would it be to get Jennings, Bayless, and Courtney Lee? All guards bring something different to the mix and fill out a lot of needs. Courtney Lee can play small ball 3 and let us go a little smaller and faster at times, too.

We stretch Jose and let Afflalo walk, we'd have about $34-37M to work with. Is that enough to get Jennings, Bayless, Lee, and Hernangomez? I think it might be.

PG: Jennings, Bayless, Grant
SG: Courtney Lee, Galloway, Wroten
SF: Melo, Lance Thomas
PF: KP, DWill
C: Rolo, Hernangomez, KOQ

Wow. Realistic and something that I think would work. Do you trade Early for a pick? I lived him coming out of college and I think Phil likes him.

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I'll take a crack at it. They'd never do it like this--Melo's already putting pressure on Phil to do "something big" (who he has in mind and thinks is coming here, God only knows.. Rondo? Conley Jr.? Batum?), but I wouldn't mind seeing something like the following:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless

I think you're on the right track.

I'd still favor Jennings over Bayless, because he's better at getting to the paint and setting up others. Though Bayless is shooting very well this year. I'd go for Jennings first, but Bayless isn't a bad second option.

For SG, I'd really target Courtney Lee - he's playing fantastic all around ball on Charlotte, including defense, and his shooting has been great. And Charlotte has to focus on signing Batum, Marvin Williams, Jeremy Lamb, Jeremy Lin, and trying to flesh out their front court. Might be able to swoop in and swipe Lee with a solid offer.

For the third guard we clearly need, I might even look at Bayless then. I'd look at Evan Turner for the third guard role, too - but how great would it be to get Jennings, Bayless, and Courtney Lee? All guards bring something different to the mix and fill out a lot of needs. Courtney Lee can play small ball 3 and let us go a little smaller and faster at times, too.

We stretch Jose and let Afflalo walk, we'd have about $34-37M to work with. Is that enough to get Jennings, Bayless, Lee, and Hernangomez? I think it might be.

PG: Jennings, Bayless, Grant
SG: Courtney Lee, Galloway, Wroten
SF: Melo, Lance Thomas
PF: KP, DWill
C: Rolo, Hernangomez, KOQ

Wow. Realistic and something that I think would work. Do you trade Early for a pick? I lived him coming out of college and I think Phil likes him.

I think Early's a FA. I hear ya--he has talent and I think Phil does like him but to me, he hasn't shown enough. Had a couple of stints in Westchester where he's played well but has always looked overmatched to me at the NBA level. I'm looking at going in a different direction with guys like Hairston, Solomon Hill...I like those two better than Early.

BRIGGS wrote:="Finestrg"]
I'll take a crack at it. They'd never do it like this--Melo's already putting pressure on Phil to do "something big" (who he has in mind and thinks is coming here, God only knows.. Rondo? Conley Jr.? Batum?), but I wouldn't mind seeing something like the following:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless
---------------------
4/5 - Willy Hernangomez
3/4 - Derrick Williams
3/2 - Solomon Hill
2/1 - Wroten
1 - Yogi Ferrell
---------------------
5 - Jordan Bachynski
4 - O'Quinn
2 - Terrico White
1 - Grant
1 - Calderon

Trying to stretch the $19mm we're expected to have but I probably went over a little bit here. Trying to approximate the salaries the FA additions in bold may command (let me know if I'm way off on these salaries--I may be):

Hairston: 4 yrs/$13.32mm ($3.33mm avg)
Bayless: 4 yrs/$30mm ($7.5mm)
Hernangomez: 3 yrs/$10mm ($3.33mm)
D-Will: 4 yrs/$24mm ($6mm)
Solomon Hill: $3 yrs/$10mm ($3.33mm)
----------
Total: $23.49mm

Rationale:
If we stretch Calderon, we should be able to swing it but I'd like to see us avoid that if possible (one more year and we're done with him--why stretch out the misery any further by impacting the cap for future seasons? Also have it in my mind that we should only stretch Jose if we have a can't-miss FA on the hook like KD--we all know that's not happening). Maybe we could ask a couple of these guys to take slightly less in year 1, then make it up to them in subsequent years, I dunno. Maybe I overestimated some of these guys' worth and we could get all of these additions closer to that $19mm number for yr-1 salaries than I think... Not a lot of household names here but I like these additions. First off, with Bayless/Hairston, the starting backcourt would be much improved--our starting frontcourt, far from the problem anyway, should play even better alongside these two. I think Bayless is talented--he's been around a few years now and is ready to run his own team. He's no Russell Westbrook, I know, but he's a young vet who's a major improvement over Calderon. Hairston, I'd be hoping to get fairly cheap--6'6" 230, young/strong, he can shoot/score and play better-than-average man-to-man defense. My hope would be to lure him with a 4 yr deal (may not be too many teams out there looking to offer the kid that long a commitment) but then have that deal look like a bargain by yr 2...I want the 2nd unit to be high octane and exciting. Step 1--bring back D-Will. Step 2--bring in a few other transition players to get out and run with him (this is paramount--can't have D-Will trying to push the pace all by himself--get him help): Solomon Hill (essentially a slightly smaller version of D-Will. Very similar game--he can get to the basket with a very good 1st step with some shake to him/finishes strong/can get out and run/get to the FT line he can shoot a little too. I like Hill better than Lance Thomas and Cleanthony Early); hopefully Wroten's healthy--very dangerous in the open floor; and Yogi Ferrell's very quick with potent offensive skills, also a true PG. Willy H. is young and should be able to get up and down, get rebounds to initiate the break and be the guy the 2nd unit can look to for some offense around the basket..I'd love to pencil in Grant for a more prominent role but I hesitate--he's played poorly and has many weaknesses he needs to improve upon. I have a hard time seeing him beat out any of these other guards I listed here, even Wroten. Maybe he's finally sent to Westchester next yr to develop properly or maybe he's traded (maybe he's how we get a low 1st/high 2nd rounder to get Ferrell -- Grant + cash?). The rest of the players are minimum level signings along with Yogi Ferrell, a draft pick--all players we should be able to exceed the cap to add. If Kyle O'Quinn plays like he did most of this year, he's out of the rotation again next season. Gotta bring it and earn it.

EDIT: Going back to the speculation on the contracts for the above FAs for a sec -- players often get less in the 1st year of a long term contract. If each one of those 5 players took a little less in year one from their contract average, we could be at the $19mm figure, maybe under, and that's w/o stretching Calderon. I think this could work. Moot point though -- Melo would never go for this plan. He wants Rondo, who already said he wouldn't come here btw.

Fine I don't see a team with melolopez kp starting and playing majority minutes together has anything more than a shot at making the playoffs at best. We won't get good enough guards to compensate and our 2 nd unit which GS and San Antonio proves evéry game to be important as good enough.

I like kp as 6 the man forna period of time-- still want him to get 26-30 minutes but I think watching the game and coming in against tired 1 units or 2 units will help him with consistency and our teams chemistry.

IF we keep Melo I'd put him at 4 and load up on guards

I dunno. I'm not so sure that's the problem. I hear what you're saying about wanting to get the spacing right for KP, that's important, and also see the logic in having him feast on tired starters &/or reserves, but I think the frontcourt's basically fine as is. I think KP just flat out ran outta gas. He's hit the wall in a big way and doesn't have the proper support structure around him to get out of it. I'd argue he doesn't have the encouragement from Melo that he really needs and also doesn't have the guidance from Rambis to put him in the best spots on the floor to be successful/productive & help him get out of this funk. I just don't care for this system AT ALL. Not one bit. We need a coach that's gonna direct KP to the best spots on the floor to score and then milk that for all it's worth. Not sure the triangle does that--doesn't seem to be much play calling going on at all (think back to the ending of the Boston game, how pathetic that was; the ending of the SA game even though Calderon had a good look to win it--that shot didn't come off any kind of a play; the Laker game--even though we won, there was no gameplan. That's just it--I don't think there's a gameplan with anything that we do. Well, there needs to be, esp. with KP next year! Everything seems to be on the players to set up stuff and figure things out for themselves out there--I see disorganization all over the place. We need more structure.. This system only works well when you have grade-A talent to run it/execute within it -- I'm convinced. We don't have that--I mean KP is only a rookie, playing with a me-first declining star who pouts/sulks when things don't go right and awful guards. The kid needs help--he needs a sytem that can help him succeed. KP, more than anyone else, should benefit from better guard play AND ALSO a system that actually has a gameplan for him. If you look back at his highlights throughout the season, he's had a lot of success with RoLo, Melo or RoLo/Melo out there with him:

As for loading up on guards--absolutely. Definitely in agreement. And I agree with trading Melo for what that's worth too--I just don't see it happening. I feel we'll be saddled with this dude to the end of his contract. Next best thing would be to try to come up with ways to improve the guard play using the available cap space/draft--ways to make that money go a long way. I think Bayless, Hairston, Solomon Hill, Wroten and Yogi Ferrell (a good call you made btw--I really like that kid and unlike some of these other guards in the draft projected to go much higher, I think we could get Ferrell one way or another -- Kentucky/Indy today at 5:15pm btw, ch. 2), maybe a Terrico White for a little more depth at the end of the bench (I like this kid. Great athlete & finally healthy, he can play -- maybe he could battle guys like Hairston, Wroten or Solomon Hill for PT in this scenario) -- to me, these guys are realistic. I think we could come close to getting all these guards (along with bringing back D-Will) with our cap room and it would be a big upgrade from the dreck we're running out there right now. Again, like Ferrell in the draft, I think these FA guards are obtainable. Giving all our cap room to Rondo, Batum or Mike Conley Jr. doesn't do a thing for me at all. I don't think that's what we should do.

Also, I don't like how Melo's come across lately. I have no real love for Phil Jackson but I don't quite understand Melo's beef. Now it's all on Phil to get something done this summer or else? Or else what?? And what about you, buddy? Who did you recruit last summer? Who wanted to come play with you? Now he says he wants to be more involved in recruiting -- who are you recruiting, pal? KD? He's not coming here. Rondo? Dude said he didn't want to come here a couple of weeks ago. I don't want him anyway.. Batum's nice but he's basically a role player, albeit a good one, that we'll have to overpay for. And I'm not feeling Conley Jr. at all, esp. for the money he'll be looking for...These guys will all chew up most if not all the cap by themselves and then what--get one of these 3 & then fill in the rest of the team with league minimum guys? Is that the plan? Well that's a 35-40 win team...Just not sure what Melo's thinking, what his expectations are/what he wants Phil to do. If he doesn't like it here and can no longer accept the situation for what it is (we're rebuilding, slowed greatly by his presence on the team imo--he's not a player that can elevate a team by himself like a LeBron, etc. I don't think he was ever that player anyway, even in his prime), agree to waive that NTC and work with Phil to get yourself to a situation where you'll have a shot to win and more importantly for the Knicks, we get an opportunity to restock the shelves a little bit. Win-win. Just don't agree to stay and then sulk & blame Phil for everything. That's what he's gearing up to do--you can see it coming. Well, I see right through that. Melo needs to be held accountable too. Can't sulk and tell everyone Phil never got him the players he needs. He can leave at any time. In fact, I'd prefer he leave at this point.