mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:I agree with briggs. Its a glimpse of what a quality 2 can give us. No, not 31 pt victories every nite but the road to contention begins with quality at every position.

Why throw out the triangle if you don't have the pieces to open up ANY offense? At 22-22 we were getting quality from Affalo.

Thibs or anyone else needs talent upgrade in the back court. Problem is do we be patient and do it right or starphuch it?
If Shved was the answer, we needed a new question.

Thats the main question.....The problem is we paid Melo like we were planning to win a championship during his contract years. Maybe free agents will take notice and think they are the missing link(s).

I didn't take it that way. We paid Melo what we had to in order so that the Knicks kept him.

and we passed up huge trade opportunities like when phil was coming on board, stopped the lowry deal, kept TYSON, kept Melo.

huh?

then consider at what age Lowrey and Melo will be in 2018 when we don't have that pick any more. Would Lowry have taken us to the promised land? I doubt it.
was he at the time the kind of player Phil wanted to run his team? I doubt it. Did Lowrey mature and grow into a role in Toronto with a stable culture and immpo0vement all around? Yeah.

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Go back in time and look at Lowry objectively at the time the trade was proposed, not look at how well he has done being a part of a talented well rounded Roster.

then consider at what age Lowrey and Melo will be in 2018 when we don't have that pick any more. Would Lowry have taken us to the promised land? I doubt it.
was he at the time the kind of player Phil wanted to run his team? I doubt it. Did Lowrey mature and grow into a role in Toronto with a stable culture and immpo0vement all around? Yeah.

you are talking about trade opp #1 or #2? Lowry was already a star.

Lowry would've been the best point guard the Knicks ever had since Mark Jackson, and that's the fat version of Kyle Lowry, not even the 2016 slim and speedy All star version!

Dolan had cold feet due to being fleeced by Ujiri from the Melo trade and Bargnani trade. He didn't want to get punked again.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-blocks-knicks-deal-raptors-lowry-article-1.1546553

Maybe we dont' get 4th pick, and instead get 5-6-7! No KP, no 2018 pick. Mired in mediocrity.
There are so many moving parts that rants, as good as they feel just don't paint the simple picture you would like. ONe move begets another or prevents another.

YOur assuming:

Melo
KP
RoPez
Lowrey
Calderone

Im not sure that's all that great either but your not looking at KP most likely.

Most Sci-fi movies have some theme that if you go back in time you change the future. In ChuckBuck theatre you can script it anyway you want.
When rooted in reality, you have many angle to consider.

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Go back in time and look at Lowry objectively at the time the trade was proposed, not look at how well he has done being a part of a talented well rounded Roster.

then consider at what age Lowrey and Melo will be in 2018 when we don't have that pick any more. Would Lowry have taken us to the promised land? I doubt it.
was he at the time the kind of player Phil wanted to run his team? I doubt it. Did Lowrey mature and grow into a role in Toronto with a stable culture and immpo0vement all around? Yeah.

you are talking about trade opp #1 or #2? Lowry was already a star.

Lowry would've been the best point guard the Knicks ever had since Mark Jackson, and that's the fat version of Kyle Lowry, not even the 2016 slim and speedy All star version!

Dolan had cold feet due to being fleeced by Ujiri from the Melo trade and Bargnani trade. He didn't want to get punked again.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-blocks-knicks-deal-raptors-lowry-article-1.1546553

Toronto was willing to trade him not knowing what they had. Because it wasn't a sure thing Lowry would be a stud. If Lowry being a stud was set in stone then he wouldn't have been available or they would have wanted more then future draft pick and Shumpert.

Toronto was also medocre at the time and if they traded Lowry for the 2018 pick they would probably still be rebuilding now rather then a top team in the east.

Even though Lowry turned into a stud, I am happy that Dolan was scared to give up a draft pick in a trade for once. Showed me that he learned to value them more rather then throwing them away. Which is a big step forward.

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Go back in time and look at Lowry objectively at the time the trade was proposed, not look at how well he has done being a part of a talented well rounded Roster.

then consider at what age Lowrey and Melo will be in 2018 when we don't have that pick any more. Would Lowry have taken us to the promised land? I doubt it.
was he at the time the kind of player Phil wanted to run his team? I doubt it. Did Lowrey mature and grow into a role in Toronto with a stable culture and immpo0vement all around? Yeah.

you are talking about trade opp #1 or #2? Lowry was already a star.

Lowry would've been the best point guard the Knicks ever had since Mark Jackson, and that's the fat version of Kyle Lowry, not even the 2016 slim and speedy All star version!

Dolan had cold feet due to being fleeced by Ujiri from the Melo trade and Bargnani trade. He didn't want to get punked again.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-blocks-knicks-deal-raptors-lowry-article-1.1546553

Toronto was willing to trade him not knowing what they had. Because it wasn't a sure thing Lowry would be a stud. If Lowry being a stud was set in stone then he wouldn't have been available or they would have wanted more then future draft pick and Shumpert.

Toronto was also medocre at the time and if they traded Lowry for the 2018 pick they would probably still be rebuilding now rather then a top team in the east.

Even though Lowry turned into a stud, I am happy that Dolan was scared to give up a draft pick in a trade for once. Showed me that he learned to value them more rather then throwing them away. Which is a big step forward.

so the one time he does not give up the pick he gets fukked, great! I'm happy too.

Yea them the breaks

RonRon wrote:We simply do not know how to play as a team and still can not execute the Triangle
Sasha knows how to execute it and plays TEAM BASKETBALL, that is what Phil Jackson has been preaching and wanted Fisher to do more off
He also looks to get high quality % shots, plays tough DEFENSE

AA is an undersized SF and is another liability on our DEFENSE
CA is best used as a PF, while the trio of CA, KP, Lopez is simply too slow and has poor spacing issues

it just illustrates that part a HUGE part of our problems are TEAM WORK, BB IQ, EXECUTING TEAM BASKETBALL, ANTICIPATION on both OFF and DEF
Sasha knows how to move the ball, when to cut, how to direct other players to move, and moving the basketball ball at the same time, trying to get quality high % shots
While many has bashed him this season, I see a player that knows how to play TEAM BASKETBALL

We need to be able to utilize ALL 5 players on the floor to be scoring threats
Obviously some players are more talented than others as threats, while some players need screens and picks to free them up, some need to set their legs to shoot more etc...
We simply need EVERYONE to be able to set a good screen, use a good screen effectively, constant movement with ball movement *WITH PURPOSE*, finding the angle in the triangle to get a high % shot
I simply believe we should get some GS talents and show the team how to work as a team, especially with ball movement/player movement, cuts, passing, catch and shoot, etc....
teams such as OKC just do not get it as well, while the Triangle isn't the only system that provides team work effectively with floor spacing etc
Denver has been playing well despite their injuries but they play a hard on DEFENSE, and try to get quality shots with team work

If we need to OVERPAY for Luke Walton, DO IT
Give him an offer that he will not refuse, whether it is multiyear deal at 7-8m to 9-10m (with incentives)
Lets face it, EVERY TEAM, GM, and players want to be able to play like GS does on both OFFENSE and DEFENSE
It would only help our FA talent if we show we can be effective as a unit if we can execute it

players such as

David Lee
Mo Speights

Ian Clark
Kent Bazemore
Brandon Rush/Justin Holiday

Livingston/Iggy in a trade to clear salary without giving up assets so GS can sign Durant
Not sure if I would want to pay Harrison Barnes over 15m (which he turned down as an extension)

Harrison Barnes/Bogut

There are also HIGH IQ players that have played on teams such as Spurs, Atlanta, Bulls, Miami etc
As well as on bad teams

Jeremy Lin would be a solid backup PG that knows how to get others involved and played well in the Garden that knows how to get the crowd involved to bring back home court

Will Barton has been great this year, while Briggs and a few others wanted to acquire him last summer, some thought he was a scrub

Jovic was compared to a YOUNG Vucevic with a 3pt shot
I wanted him prior to the draft and he could have been available over Early

I have no problem getting salary cap relief this year by sending Lopez to a team that could send his draft picks and no cap space back
Along with not resigning AA and Derrick Williams, even trading Kyle O Quin

We need to figure out if CA is part of our future or not this summer

Hey Ron, who are some of the under radar players in this free agency or in the NBA you would like on this team?

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:In the end we got KP and tho I think Lowry is a very good player, I wouldn't give up on getting KP just to have had Lowry. He's so young that there will be plenty of time to find or develop a PG for the future. I think we can all agree that for the most part this team is a good Backcourt away from being a winning team. That and further development of our young players.

Exactly- if we had had traded for Lowry there would have been no KP. Plus Lowry was coming up for free agency so if he hadn't meshed with Melo, he could have bolted. So essentially we would have traded KP and a 2018 first rounder for a 1 year rental of Lowry. And some of you complain about IT...

That could've been all well or true if Lowry didn't mesh with Melo.

But if he did, that would've been Melo's best and last chance at really competing in New York. Instead we get to see him wither and turn into Grandpa Melo these last 3 years before our very eyes...

Bonn1997 wrote:If our starting backcourt shoots 11-14 with 13 or more assists, we will a lot of games

Especially against the lower echelon teams like the Suns. Against a semi-competent backcourt, we're typically getting reality checked into a double digit loss.