I think we have guys thinking too much & they're not comfortable running it. Its not the system that is bad, its the way its being run by the players here.

I'm convinced we'd have more wins with a different system that better fit the personnel we have and their talents.

How does Dolan let Phil hire a coach to run the triangle if Phil is quite possibly gone before the new coach is here 1+ season. Then who gets the triangle talent?

I'd like Phil to hire a great coach in the off season, and give them the power & freedom to run things there way. & Then Phil can focus on retraining Dolan into a better owner for when Phil leaves in 1-2 years.

We don't need the triangle to build a winning culture. We need the right people & an owner who is retrained in how they run things moving forward.

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Thibs will run any system that his players CAN run. That's the big difference. He isn't married to any system, and will run what makes the best use of the talents in his roster.

The benefit of doing this is about how they have done this year but how they'll do over many years training in this system. All of our young players will have been developed in this system and that will show dividends later on. Don't get caught up in the recent losing and lose sight of the big picture. As Phil continues to improve the talent on the roster the fact that they will have players who are all well versed in the system will be a benefit going forward.

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Thibs will run any system that his players CAN run. That's the big difference. He isn't married to any system, and will run what makes the best use of the talents in his roster.

Here's the thing. Phil wants to run a system. He uses the Triangle because he knows it best and won a BOATLOAD of games and Titles with it. His people are all well versed in it. He's used the Triangle from the D League up to the big team and is developing all his players in this system.

The benefit of doing this is about how they have done this year but how they'll do over many years training in this system. All of our young players will have been developed in this system and that will show dividends later on. Don't get caught up in the recent losing and lose sight of the big picture. As Phil continues to improve the talent on the roster the fact that they will have players who are all well versed in the system will be a benefit going forward.

Please don't take this the hard way, but even his most famous coaching disciples don't run it in Golden State. It's an antiquated and restrictive system/philosophy. Kerr/Walton employ some aspects of the triangle, but make no mistake about it, they're all about that Spread Pick and Roll. It's simple and highly effective. And with a screener in Draymond Green that can pick and pop, pick and create, or pick and dive...makes the system nearly impossible to guard.

In fact during Thibodeau's recent defensive consulting gig with Golden State, he was boning up himself on roster management and efficient offensive systems for his next head coaching job since that was his major weaknesses as a coach. I don't think he'll learn much triangle during his GS visit.

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Thibs will run any system that his players CAN run. That's the big difference. He isn't married to any system, and will run what makes the best use of the talents in his roster.

Here's the thing. Phil wants to run a system. He uses the Triangle because he knows it best and won a BOATLOAD of games and Titles with it. His people are all well versed in it. He's used the Triangle from the D League up to the big team and is developing all his players in this system.

The benefit of doing this is about how they have done this year but how they'll do over many years training in this system. All of our young players will have been developed in this system and that will show dividends later on. Don't get caught up in the recent losing and lose sight of the big picture. As Phil continues to improve the talent on the roster the fact that they will have players who are all well versed in the system will be a benefit going forward.

Please don't take this the hard way, but even his most famous coaching disciples don't run it in Golden State. It's an antiquated and restrictive system/philosophy. Kerr/Walton employ some aspects of the triangle, but make no mistake about it, they're all about that Spread Pick and Roll. It's simple and highly effective. And with a screener in Draymond Green that can pick and pop, pick and create, or pick and dive...makes the system nearly impossible to guard.

In fact during Thibodeau's recent defensive consulting gig with Golden State, he was boning up himself on roster management and efficient offensive systems for his next head coaching job since that was his major weaknesses as a coach. I don't think he'll learn much triangle during his GS visit.

People are making a huge mistake in their assumptions about the Triangle from what I know about the system. They're damning the system based on our current situation and a very big lack of knowledge about the system IMO. Let's allow Phil to finish building this team and adding better talent.

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Thibs will run any system that his players CAN run. That's the big difference. He isn't married to any system, and will run what makes the best use of the talents in his roster.

Here's the thing. Phil wants to run a system. He uses the Triangle because he knows it best and won a BOATLOAD of games and Titles with it. His people are all well versed in it. He's used the Triangle from the D League up to the big team and is developing all his players in this system.

The benefit of doing this is about how they have done this year but how they'll do over many years training in this system. All of our young players will have been developed in this system and that will show dividends later on. Don't get caught up in the recent losing and lose sight of the big picture. As Phil continues to improve the talent on the roster the fact that they will have players who are all well versed in the system will be a benefit going forward.

Please don't take this the hard way, but even his most famous coaching disciples don't run it in Golden State. It's an antiquated and restrictive system/philosophy. Kerr/Walton employ some aspects of the triangle, but make no mistake about it, they're all about that Spread Pick and Roll. It's simple and highly effective. And with a screener in Draymond Green that can pick and pop, pick and create, or pick and dive...makes the system nearly impossible to guard.

In fact during Thibodeau's recent defensive consulting gig with Golden State, he was boning up himself on roster management and efficient offensive systems for his next head coaching job since that was his major weaknesses as a coach. I don't think he'll learn much triangle during his GS visit.

When we have the kind of players they have in GS then by all means they can run that system. Just remember that i'm not a Triangle only proponent. I like different forms of offense. I was one of the VERY FIRST and FEW guys on here that was a proponent of the Spread Offense that MDA ran. People around here killed that system too and the main reason was also a lack of Guard talent for that system when MDA was here. It always starts with the talent. I studied that offense as much as I've studied this one. I'm well aware of different offensive schemes teams run today.

People are making a huge mistake in their assumptions about the Triangle from what I know about the system. They're damning the system based on our current situation and a very big lack of knowledge about the system IMO. Let's allow Phil to finish building this team and adding better talent.

so he just brought 9 players in as rentals? That's has to be the case if he was willing to listen to offers right

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Casual basketball fans only know the triangle offense and maybe the Princeton offense. The thing about that they don't even know what they both entail.

also "get with the times"? That basically means "whatever golden state is doing? Do that!"....guys don't even understand what they are watching. Why are the Knicks so heavily scrutinized? There are 29 other teams. They all are running an offense. They all aren't running the same thing. People that day that are ignorant as ****. Nixluva points out that Thibbs was running elements of the triangle. There's a video on it and everything....but pepole wanna say scrap the triangle and get a real coach. Pure ignorance.

the key word is ELEMNET, we run the entire offense and nothing else

Yup. It's bad when we have what looks like it should be a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 fast break then just we pull up and wait for the rest of the team to form the triangle and get into our 20 second half court set.

It's bad enough we don't have the players, and when we do play like we're capable of out there we're too busy thinking about spacing and pinch posting instead of getting easy baskets in transition instead. Kills the flow, pace, momentum, and hurts us on defense. Then we get alot of Melo/Afflalo ISO and alot of standing around....

ChuckBuck wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Casual basketball fans only know the triangle offense and maybe the Princeton offense. The thing about that they don't even know what they both entail.

also "get with the times"? That basically means "whatever golden state is doing? Do that!"....guys don't even understand what they are watching. Why are the Knicks so heavily scrutinized? There are 29 other teams. They all are running an offense. They all aren't running the same thing. People that day that are ignorant as ****. Nixluva points out that Thibbs was running elements of the triangle. There's a video on it and everything....but pepole wanna say scrap the triangle and get a real coach. Pure ignorance.

the key word is ELEMNET, we run the entire offense and nothing else

Yup. It's bad when we have what looks like it should be a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 fast break then just we pull up and wait for the rest of the team to form the triangle and get into our 20 second half court set.

It's bad enough we don't have the players, and when we do play like we're capable of out there we're too busy thinking about spacing and pinch posting instead of getting easy baskets in transition instead. Kills the flow, pace, momentum, and hurts us on defense. Then we get alot of Melo/Afflalo ISO and alot of standing around....

BINGO

+1000

We talk about we don't have the guards to run, I constantly see Calderon beat everyone down court and dribble into no mans land or just stop at the 3 point line and wait.

the only fast breaks we get is when either Galloway, Dwill, or grant go coast to coast on a solo act.

There is ZERO emphasis on fast breaks in practice ZEROOOOOOOO...

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Casual basketball fans only know the triangle offense and maybe the Princeton offense. The thing about that they don't even know what they both entail.

also "get with the times"? That basically means "whatever golden state is doing? Do that!"....guys don't even understand what they are watching. Why are the Knicks so heavily scrutinized? There are 29 other teams. They all are running an offense. They all aren't running the same thing. People that day that are ignorant as ****. Nixluva points out that Thibbs was running elements of the triangle. There's a video on it and everything....but pepole wanna say scrap the triangle and get a real coach. Pure ignorance.

the key word is ELEMNET, we run the entire offense and nothing else

Yup. It's bad when we have what looks like it should be a 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 fast break then just we pull up and wait for the rest of the team to form the triangle and get into our 20 second half court set.

It's bad enough we don't have the players, and when we do play like we're capable of out there we're too busy thinking about spacing and pinch posting instead of getting easy baskets in transition instead. Kills the flow, pace, momentum, and hurts us on defense. Then we get alot of Melo/Afflalo ISO and alot of standing around....

BINGO

+1000

We talk about we don't have the guards to run, I constantly see Calderon beat everyone down court and dribble into no mans land or just stop at the 3 point line and wait.

the only fast breaks we get is when either Galloway, Dwill, or grant go coast to coast on a solo act.

There is ZERO emphasis on fast breaks in practice ZEROOOOOOOO...

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I want to throw my remote through my 4k TV when this happens, then I remember I have a 4k TV.

Very infuriating to see that. Only DWill seems to be a threat to go coast to coast off a board or steal, and that's because he's too dumb for system basketball.

You can actually see the cogs and wheels physically turning inside his head when the ball's in Jerian hands. Like he bolts down the floor like lightning but as soon as he crosses mid court says to himself "What would Tex Winter do in this scenario? Would he wait for the sideline triangle, go for early offense, feed the pinch post, go for a backdoor give and go action, wait for a high pick and roll screener?" Like you can see Jerian's face going through calculus equations rather than being his instinctive Notre Dame breaking ankles self.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

We're not in the 90s. Players want to play with their friends. They don't want to be apart of a ny come up.

You just answered the problem with Phil's vision in your rant. You have to be flexible and get with the times, basically, is what all the triangle critics are saying.

Go outside the triangle tree and hire the best guy for the job (Thibadeau). He phucking wants to be here and said so emphatically, why doesn't Phil want him here? Get the best players and fit the system around the players, not the other way around.

You do realize that Thibs also ran the Triangle right? They just didn't advertise it. In fact a LOT of team still use the triangle but they don't talk about it.

Thibs will run any system that his players CAN run. That's the big difference. He isn't married to any system, and will run what makes the best use of the talents in his roster.

Here's the thing. Phil wants to run a system. He uses the Triangle because he knows it best and won a BOATLOAD of games and Titles with it. His people are all well versed in it. He's used the Triangle from the D League up to the big team and is developing all his players in this system.

The benefit of doing this is about how they have done this year but how they'll do over many years training in this system. All of our young players will have been developed in this system and that will show dividends later on. Don't get caught up in the recent losing and lose sight of the big picture. As Phil continues to improve the talent on the roster the fact that they will have players who are all well versed in the system will be a benefit going forward.

"He uses the Triangle because he knows it best"?

I don't code in assembly language because that is what I know. Guess what, today that have Java.

This is not just about GS. Pretty much all teams are implementing a spread offense with high PnR and 4 out. They are some holdovers with older player that are exceptions like SA. There are also some old (school) dumb coaches that are slowly being squeezed out of the league.

Phil wanted to turn DA into a low post player. Same with SAMMY DAMN DALLY.

Teams are pretty much doing away with post play. Are we? No. We are teaching Sammy D's to to be post players.

It's already been established that Uptempo Spread Offense hasn't meant all these teams are winning by playing that way. Just cuz there are more teams playing that style doesn't mean it's successful for all of those teams. There are also some top teams that don't predominantly play that way.

I'd be more concerned with upgrading the talent on this team before I worry about the Offensive System we run. Knicks were winning more games when our guards were playing better. AA and Gallo start missing shots and it went downhill pretty quick.

Just like reading about all these GM wannabe moves here on the UK.

Opinions and Azzholes.

nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Dwayne Wade plays with Chris Bosh, Whiteside, and a very well run organization.
Lebron James is twice the player Melo is, and plays with an all-star cast and makes sure which team he plays on has the talent.

All Melo cares about is being the man in NY. He's still thinking he's in Syracuse. If you believe Steven A, he wants Dolan's connections to wall street as well (so more money).

End of the day, Lebron and Wade didn't choose being the man in a big market (neither CLE or Miami is a big market like LA/NY) over winning. This is what Melo did. He continues to do so. It's just who he is. So Reggie Miller needs to shove it.

As if the Triangle offense is the reason the Knicks can not play defense. The Triangle offense has caused the Knicks to lose 2 draft picks in 3 years under Phil's watch (both lottery picks). The Triangle offense is just a system of basketball to encourage players to play together. Which the Knicks try to do on offense. Unselfish Melo? Yes that Triangle. The 22-22 better than the talent start? Again that was the Triangle culture helping team harmony.

Why so many equate talent with system I do not know. The Triangle doesn't turn Afflalo in Jordan, Melo into Pippen and RoLo in Gasol/Shaq. But if we get major talent, when KP is in his prime, this system will show to be an asset. However we need the talent first and foremost. Did Reggie watch how the team played when Grant/Galloway/Afflalo/Williams were out there? They were running the same system. Only with speed, more guard skill and better athleticism. That's what we need with our starters now. More speed, skill and athleticism in the starting 5. I only want 3 starters at most back next year starting. We need to get more athletic, quicker and skilled in terms of handling the ball and penetrating a defense. We need the athleticism and speed for defensive purposes as well.

EXACTLY!!! This team is losing mostly based on poor defense! Of course we need better talent but right now the failure to defend has been the biggest issues. Poor execution on Offense has led to leaving a lot of points on the floor and allowed teams to get out and run on the Knicks.

This is why we need upgrades at PG and SG so that we can get better defense on the perimeter and better execution on offense. More easy baskets by pushing the ball and driving to the basket.

For those like Reggie who are trashing the Triangle and those who are dying for Thibs, just remember this, Thibs used the Triangle too:

I was calling for Thibs even before Fisher was fired, but thanks for this video. I was going to be happy with just stellar defense, but this gives me serious hope on offense as well.