franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:sorry, he doesn't belong in the HOF.

Ridiculous statement

he's entitled to his opinion

It's not even in question that Melo will be in the hall of fame, so it's not so much an opinion as a misinterpretation of reality.

I didn't say he wouldn't be.

But in my opinion, he shouldn't. Sorry if my standards are higher for who belongs.

I guess when we give kids a trophy for participation, that carries over.

Melo has been a semi-efficient chucker.

I'm sorry if I want players that are recognized as all time greats to be able to knock down game winning shots.

I don't value pounding the ball and forcing up ridiculous shots.

I want my HOF players to be the elite athletes who change the game, who impact the game.

Is Melo a good player? Has he been a great player? Arguably yes.

But one of the greatest in his class? Sorry, no.

By your definition, Larry Bird would not be in the HoF. You see how this works? HoF is based on basketball credentials. Not whether or not you like how a player plays, or how athletic they are, or fun to watch. What has been accomplished on an individual basis. It's an individual award. Scoring, rebounding, All-Star appearances, All-NBA awards etc all factor in. Championships do at a bonus, but are not essential, and plenty of players like Derek Fisher who won many of them will not make the HoF. That is not how it works. If your issue is with the HoF and it's process as a whole, which it seems to be, that is a completely different conversation, but based on how the HoF stands for right now, Melo deserves it, and there is no debate there. You are debating the HoF as a whole, and i won't necessarily disagree with you there, so have at it.

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:sorry, he doesn't belong in the HOF.

Ridiculous statement

he's entitled to his opinion

It's not even in question that Melo will be in the hall of fame, so it's not so much an opinion as a misinterpretation of reality.

I didn't say he wouldn't be.

But in my opinion, he shouldn't. Sorry if my standards are higher for who belongs.

I guess when we give kids a trophy for participation, that carries over.

Melo has been a semi-efficient chucker.

I'm sorry if I want players that are recognized as all time greats to be able to knock down game winning shots.

I don't value pounding the ball and forcing up ridiculous shots.

I want my HOF players to be the elite athletes who change the game, who impact the game.

Is Melo a good player? Has he been a great player? Arguably yes.

But one of the greatest in his class? Sorry, no.

By your definition, Larry Bird would not be in the HoF. You see how this works? HoF is based on basketball credentials. Not whether or not you like how a player plays, or how athletic they are, or fun to watch. What has been accomplished on an individual basis. It's an individual award. Scoring, rebounding, All-Star appearances, All-NBA awards etc all factor in. Championships do at a bonus, but are not essential, and plenty of players like Derek Fisher who won many of them will not make the HoF. That is not how it works. If your issue is with the HoF and it's process as a whole, which it seems to be, that is a completely different conversation, but based on how the HoF stands for right now, Melo deserves it, and there is no debate there. You are debating the HoF as a whole, and i won't necessarily disagree with you there, so have at it.

Come on, man. Bird won 3 MVPs and won 3 rings. Was the best player in the NBA for a stint there.

Melo will make it in simply due to sheer buckets, nothing else. One dimensional volume scorers make first ballot Hall of Fame frequently, not because he's an all time great and definitely not because he was the greatest amongst his peers at any point.

Adrian Dantley and Iceman Gervin and Bernard King also made it into the Hall due to bucket making. They were one dimensional players as well.

Don't put Melo in the conversation of a Bird or a Barkley or Karl Malone. Due put Melo into a conversation with Dominique and Dantley and Iceman.

There's a difference in the quality of the inductee. Sometimes the Hall simply inducts for time of service and punching in enough numbers in the scoring category. Make no mistake about it though, if they had an NBA's Greatest 50 players or 100, Melo would not come close.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:sorry, he doesn't belong in the HOF.

Ridiculous statement

he's entitled to his opinion

It's not even in question that Melo will be in the hall of fame, so it's not so much an opinion as a misinterpretation of reality.

I didn't say he wouldn't be.

But in my opinion, he shouldn't. Sorry if my standards are higher for who belongs.

I guess when we give kids a trophy for participation, that carries over.

Melo has been a semi-efficient chucker.

I'm sorry if I want players that are recognized as all time greats to be able to knock down game winning shots.

I don't value pounding the ball and forcing up ridiculous shots.

I want my HOF players to be the elite athletes who change the game, who impact the game.

Is Melo a good player? Has he been a great player? Arguably yes.

But one of the greatest in his class? Sorry, no.

By your definition, Larry Bird would not be in the HoF. You see how this works? HoF is based on basketball credentials. Not whether or not you like how a player plays, or how athletic they are, or fun to watch. What has been accomplished on an individual basis. It's an individual award. Scoring, rebounding, All-Star appearances, All-NBA awards etc all factor in. Championships do at a bonus, but are not essential, and plenty of players like Derek Fisher who won many of them will not make the HoF. That is not how it works. If your issue is with the HoF and it's process as a whole, which it seems to be, that is a completely different conversation, but based on how the HoF stands for right now, Melo deserves it, and there is no debate there. You are debating the HoF as a whole, and i won't necessarily disagree with you there, so have at it.

Come on, man. Bird won 3 MVPs and won 3 rings. Was the best player in the NBA for a stint there.

Melo will make it in simply due to sheer buckets, nothing else. One dimensional volume scorers make first ballot Hall of Fame frequently, not because he's an all time great and definitely not because he was the greatest amongst his peers at any point.

Adrian Dantley and Iceman Gervin and Bernard King also made it into the Hall due to bucket making. They were one dimensional players as well.

Don't put Melo in the conversation of a Bird or a Barkley or Karl Malone. Due put Melo into a conversation with Dominique and Dantley and Iceman.

There's a difference in the quality of the inductee. Sometimes the Hall simply inducts for time of service and punching in enough numbers in the scoring category. Make no mistake about it though, if they had an NBA's Greatest 50 players or 100, Melo would not come close.

I highlighted the reason i brought up Bird. Bird is one of the greatest players of all time, but by the OP's definition, he should not make it because he is not an "elite athlete." See how ridiculous that sounds? You can't change the credentials the HoF uses to induct players. So no one can say Melo doesn't deserve to be there. Just like no one can say Bird doesn't because he wasn't an elite athlete despite being one of the best basketball players of all time. Melo is nowhere near the same conversation as Bird, i am not comparing the 2 in any way. The only comparison they have is both played the SF and both are consensus first ballot HoF at the end of their careers.

Also, ESPN just did a top 100 all-time. They hate Melo, and he just missed top 50. Not sure he finishes top 50, but you are wrong about top 100. He is already top 100 all-time and its not even a discussion.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:sorry, he doesn't belong in the HOF.

Ridiculous statement

he's entitled to his opinion

It's not even in question that Melo will be in the hall of fame, so it's not so much an opinion as a misinterpretation of reality.

I didn't say he wouldn't be.

But in my opinion, he shouldn't. Sorry if my standards are higher for who belongs.

I guess when we give kids a trophy for participation, that carries over.

Melo has been a semi-efficient chucker.

I'm sorry if I want players that are recognized as all time greats to be able to knock down game winning shots.

I don't value pounding the ball and forcing up ridiculous shots.

I want my HOF players to be the elite athletes who change the game, who impact the game.

Is Melo a good player? Has he been a great player? Arguably yes.

But one of the greatest in his class? Sorry, no.

By your definition, Larry Bird would not be in the HoF. You see how this works? HoF is based on basketball credentials. Not whether or not you like how a player plays, or how athletic they are, or fun to watch. What has been accomplished on an individual basis. It's an individual award. Scoring, rebounding, All-Star appearances, All-NBA awards etc all factor in. Championships do at a bonus, but are not essential, and plenty of players like Derek Fisher who won many of them will not make the HoF. That is not how it works. If your issue is with the HoF and it's process as a whole, which it seems to be, that is a completely different conversation, but based on how the HoF stands for right now, Melo deserves it, and there is no debate there. You are debating the HoF as a whole, and i won't necessarily disagree with you there, so have at it.

Come on, man. Bird won 3 MVPs and won 3 rings. Was the best player in the NBA for a stint there.

Melo will make it in simply due to sheer buckets, nothing else. One dimensional volume scorers make first ballot Hall of Fame frequently, not because he's an all time great and definitely not because he was the greatest amongst his peers at any point.

Adrian Dantley and Iceman Gervin and Bernard King also made it into the Hall due to bucket making. They were one dimensional players as well.

Don't put Melo in the conversation of a Bird or a Barkley or Karl Malone. Due put Melo into a conversation with Dominique and Dantley and Iceman.

There's a difference in the quality of the inductee. Sometimes the Hall simply inducts for time of service and punching in enough numbers in the scoring category. Make no mistake about it though, if they had an NBA's Greatest 50 players or 100, Melo would not come close.

I highlighted the reason i brought up Bird. Bird is one of the greatest players of all time, but by the OP's definition, he should not make it because he is not an "elite athlete." See how ridiculous that sounds? You can't change the credentials the HoF uses to induct players. So no one can say Melo doesn't deserve to be there. Just like no one can say Bird doesn't because he wasn't an elite athlete despite being one of the best basketball players of all time. Melo is nowhere near the same conversation as Bird, i am not comparing the 2 in any way. The only comparison they have is both played the SF and both are consensus first ballot HoF at the end of their careers.

Also, ESPN just did a top 100 all-time. They hate Melo, and he just missed top 50. Not sure he finishes top 50, but you are wrong about top 100. He is already top 100 all-time and its not even a discussion.

by athlete, I mean someone who plays a sport - not that they can jump high or run fast.

maybe it would help to talk about Bird - I hated him growing up, but realize and respect him for the competitor he was.

Unlike Melo, Bird was super smart and nailed any number of game winning, series winning shots.

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:sorry, he doesn't belong in the HOF.

Ridiculous statement

he's entitled to his opinion

It's not even in question that Melo will be in the hall of fame, so it's not so much an opinion as a misinterpretation of reality.

I didn't say he wouldn't be.

But in my opinion, he shouldn't. Sorry if my standards are higher for who belongs.

I guess when we give kids a trophy for participation, that carries over.

Melo has been a semi-efficient chucker.

I'm sorry if I want players that are recognized as all time greats to be able to knock down game winning shots.

I don't value pounding the ball and forcing up ridiculous shots.

I want my HOF players to be the elite athletes who change the game, who impact the game.

Is Melo a good player? Has he been a great player? Arguably yes.

But one of the greatest in his class? Sorry, no.

By your definition, Larry Bird would not be in the HoF. You see how this works? HoF is based on basketball credentials. Not whether or not you like how a player plays, or how athletic they are, or fun to watch. What has been accomplished on an individual basis. It's an individual award. Scoring, rebounding, All-Star appearances, All-NBA awards etc all factor in. Championships do at a bonus, but are not essential, and plenty of players like Derek Fisher who won many of them will not make the HoF. That is not how it works. If your issue is with the HoF and it's process as a whole, which it seems to be, that is a completely different conversation, but based on how the HoF stands for right now, Melo deserves it, and there is no debate there. You are debating the HoF as a whole, and i won't necessarily disagree with you there, so have at it.

Come on, man. Bird won 3 MVPs and won 3 rings. Was the best player in the NBA for a stint there.

Melo will make it in simply due to sheer buckets, nothing else. One dimensional volume scorers make first ballot Hall of Fame frequently, not because he's an all time great and definitely not because he was the greatest amongst his peers at any point.

Adrian Dantley and Iceman Gervin and Bernard King also made it into the Hall due to bucket making. They were one dimensional players as well.

Don't put Melo in the conversation of a Bird or a Barkley or Karl Malone. Due put Melo into a conversation with Dominique and Dantley and Iceman.

There's a difference in the quality of the inductee. Sometimes the Hall simply inducts for time of service and punching in enough numbers in the scoring category. Make no mistake about it though, if they had an NBA's Greatest 50 players or 100, Melo would not come close.

I highlighted the reason i brought up Bird. Bird is one of the greatest players of all time, but by the OP's definition, he should not make it because he is not an "elite athlete." See how ridiculous that sounds? You can't change the credentials the HoF uses to induct players. So no one can say Melo doesn't deserve to be there. Just like no one can say Bird doesn't because he wasn't an elite athlete despite being one of the best basketball players of all time. Melo is nowhere near the same conversation as Bird, i am not comparing the 2 in any way. The only comparison they have is both played the SF and both are consensus first ballot HoF at the end of their careers.

Also, ESPN just did a top 100 all-time. They hate Melo, and he just missed top 50. Not sure he finishes top 50, but you are wrong about top 100. He is already top 100 all-time and its not even a discussion.

by athlete, I mean someone who plays a sport - not that they can jump high or run fast.

maybe it would help to talk about Bird - I hated him growing up, but realize and respect him for the competitor he was.

Unlike Melo, Bird was super smart and nailed any number of game winning, series winning shots.

Agreed. Again, the issue remains the HoF process. How players are selected. You think Melo doesn't deserve it, and therefore, very few players deserve it. Melo is a top 100 player in the league history based on overall performance, no debate about that, so the HoF would have very few NBA players in it, certainly less than 100, if your criteria was what the HoF used. I think the HoF recognizes players who were among the best in the league during their time. Some were only at that level for a few years, others, like Bird, for a majority of their careers. But the HoF is designed to have players inducted each year. By your criteria, there would be a lot of years where NBA players would not be inducted, which obviously isn't realistic.

ChuckBuck wrote:Just the thought of Melo retiring a Knick and entering the Hall as a Knick makes me queasy.

What's even worse is the thought of #7 hanging in the rafters...

Doesn't belong. Every single one of those jersey numbers are deservedly there. They have a hallowed space and special meaning, each one. I would upchuck a gallon of puke if this ever happened...

You should go root for the Nets. You won't have to worry about any of your players making the hall of fame that way.

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Just the thought of Melo retiring a Knick and entering the Hall as a Knick makes me queasy.

What's even worse is the thought of #7 hanging in the rafters...

Doesn't belong. Every single one of those jersey numbers are deservedly there. They have a hallowed space and special meaning, each one. I would upchuck a gallon of puke if this ever happened...

You should go root for the Nets. You won't have to worry about any of your players making the hall of fame that way.

Can't help my allegiance. My father put me on the Knicks way back when you were still a swimmer in your dad's ball bag.

Went through the dark ages after Clyde and Red Holzman run were done in the 1980s with the Hubie Brown Knicks. Went through the dawn of the Bernard King era and the rise of the Ewing/Pat the Rat 90s which were the pinnacle for me. Nothing closer than almost sniffing a parade during the OJ Simpson finals. The Spree/Houston Knicks were fun to watch in 99, but were never realistically winning anything.

These Knicks are no different than the Marbury/Isiah era Knicks minus the 2013 Kidd led blip on the radar. Total mediocrity and dysfunction. Bad management, no decent coach in sight, no free agents want to play with our ball hog.

Got only one 7'3 glimmer of hope to hold on to...

Gsus wrote:It's the BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME, not the NBA Hall of Fame. He is an Olympic gold medalist, an NCAA champion and will end up in the top ten in scoring all time. Add the All Star appearances and scoring title, and he is a lock for it.

Hate him or not, I don't understand how one can just ignore facts. You don't get into the Basketball Hall of Fame because of your unselfish playing style, it's because of your accolades/accomplishments throughout your basketball career, not just your NBA one.

I guess the people that don't see him or don't WANT to see him get in are going by NBA MVP awards, championships, etc, but then you'd have to kick a lot of non-NBA players and NBA players out of it, starting with Patrick Ewing.

Ewing belongs. He's the franchise's leader in points, rebounds, and blocks and made it to 2 NBA Finals. He made several All NBA and All NBA defensive teams and he was on the original Dream Team as well as named to the 50 Greatest players team.

Melo doesn't have these accolades, he's simply in for compiling and accumulating, nothing exemplary.

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Gsus wrote:It's the BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME, not the NBA Hall of Fame. He is an Olympic gold medalist, an NCAA champion and will end up in the top ten in scoring all time. Add the All Star appearances and scoring title, and he is a lock for it.

Hate him or not, I don't understand how one can just ignore facts. You don't get into the Basketball Hall of Fame because of your unselfish playing style, it's because of your accolades/accomplishments throughout your basketball career, not just your NBA one.

I guess the people that don't see him or don't WANT to see him get in are going by NBA MVP awards, championships, etc, but then you'd have to kick a lot of non-NBA players and NBA players out of it, starting with Patrick Ewing.

Ewing belongs. He's the franchise's leader in points, rebounds, and blocks and made it to 2 NBA Finals. He made several All NBA and All NBA defensive teams and he was on the original Dream Team as well as named to the 50 Greatest players team.

Melo doesn't have these accolades, he's simply in for compiling and accumulating, nothing exemplary.

He won an NCAA championship in his only year in college. And he's credited with being among the group of basketball players who got Team USA back on track winning gold medals after the 2004 team shat the bed.

Justise Winslow did too, so what?

Kobe, Lebron, Coach K, and Jerry Colangelo deserve all the credit for righting USA basketball.

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Gsus wrote:It's the BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME, not the NBA Hall of Fame. He is an Olympic gold medalist, an NCAA champion and will end up in the top ten in scoring all time. Add the All Star appearances and scoring title, and he is a lock for it.

Hate him or not, I don't understand how one can just ignore facts. You don't get into the Basketball Hall of Fame because of your unselfish playing style, it's because of your accolades/accomplishments throughout your basketball career, not just your NBA one.

I guess the people that don't see him or don't WANT to see him get in are going by NBA MVP awards, championships, etc, but then you'd have to kick a lot of non-NBA players and NBA players out of it, starting with Patrick Ewing.

Ewing belongs. He's the franchise's leader in points, rebounds, and blocks and made it to 2 NBA Finals. He made several All NBA and All NBA defensive teams and he was on the original Dream Team as well as named to the 50 Greatest players team.

Melo doesn't have these accolades, he's simply in for compiling and accumulating, nothing exemplary.

He won an NCAA championship in his only year in college. And he's credited with being among the group of basketball players who got Team USA back on track winning gold medals after the 2004 team shat the bed.

Justise Winslow did too, so what?

Kobe, Lebron, Coach K, and Jerry Colangelo deserve all the credit for righting USA basketball.

Melo might be considered 50 greatest all time by the end of his career. ESPN (who hates Melo almost as much as you) even placed him 59 at this point in his career. Your HoF would be pretty small if players of his caliber didn't deserve it. He's a classic example of a player who's team success did not match his individual success, but the HoF is an individual accomplishment, not a team.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Gsus wrote:It's the BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME, not the NBA Hall of Fame. He is an Olympic gold medalist, an NCAA champion and will end up in the top ten in scoring all time. Add the All Star appearances and scoring title, and he is a lock for it.

Hate him or not, I don't understand how one can just ignore facts. You don't get into the Basketball Hall of Fame because of your unselfish playing style, it's because of your accolades/accomplishments throughout your basketball career, not just your NBA one.

I guess the people that don't see him or don't WANT to see him get in are going by NBA MVP awards, championships, etc, but then you'd have to kick a lot of non-NBA players and NBA players out of it, starting with Patrick Ewing.

Ewing belongs. He's the franchise's leader in points, rebounds, and blocks and made it to 2 NBA Finals. He made several All NBA and All NBA defensive teams and he was on the original Dream Team as well as named to the 50 Greatest players team.

Melo doesn't have these accolades, he's simply in for compiling and accumulating, nothing exemplary.

He won an NCAA championship in his only year in college. And he's credited with being among the group of basketball players who got Team USA back on track winning gold medals after the 2004 team shat the bed.

Justise Winslow did too, so what?

Kobe, Lebron, Coach K, and Jerry Colangelo deserve all the credit for righting USA basketball.

Melo might be considered 50 greatest all time by the end of his career. ESPN (who hates Melo almost as much as you) even placed him 59 at this point in his career. Your HoF would be pretty small if players of his caliber didn't deserve it. He's a classic example of a player who's team success did not match his individual success, but the HoF is an individual accomplishment, not a team.

At this point, everyone in his draft class is going to the hall of fame. Lebron, Wade, Bosh...everyone except Darko.

Out of those, only Lebron and Wade were truly exemplary. The rest just accumulated stats and will get in by default.