NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:trade melo for draft picks and a good young G
With the draft picks from melo the young player traded for and next year pick. Completely rebuild the backcourt with 5-6 new guys we have the bigs now we put in the process of the backcourt. There is no one year fix in the nba. Hire like Walton he's young smart and he's been involved with a great team. No more rigid triangle bs. Good ball movement based on spacing and a diversity of guards with our quality bigs

Here goes.....again. On the risk you just deem it as ridiculous due to it being a contrary view.

1- We will get no good value or good PG for Melo as the NTC makes it so he has to choose where he would want to go. Therefore giving the Knicks a weak hand in negotiations. Opposing GM's will not give much if they know that is the only desired destination for Melo. And again, Draft picks are not a guarantee. Specially in this weak upcoming draft.
2- Which 5 to 6 guys for the back court. Vazquez. Not any good unrestricted free agents or D league except for same scraps we have now.
And what good PG would want to come to the limited Triangle?
3- We have solid bigs? Rolo rarely plays big minutes now. Reason? KP has struggled after break. Due to fatigue? He is 20? Or is it because of adjustments made by opposing teams? Adjustments that will increase if he is main guy on offense next year.
4- Walton a young mind? A monkey could of sat on the bench at GS and looked like a good young mind? If he comes here he will just be another Phil puppet with limited in game experience.

IMO of course.

Were the T'Wolves shortchanged when they wanted to trade KG, who had a NTC? Were the Celtics shortchanged when they received 3 lottery picks in trading him to the Nets, in spite of his NTC? Why do you insist on talking in absolutes, when this is a gray-matter?

Agreeed, all a gray matter. What forums are for. Don't think we can find find 3 lottery picks for him. As there is only one Prokhorov. But if we did get 3 guaranteed lottery picks, then of course I would be in favor. Just don't see it. And as mentioned in other posts, knee issues will also factor in to offers.

3 lottery picks is an extreme but your position is on the other end of the spectrum. I don't know why but Knick fans continually seem to devalue our assets, only to see their potential realized elsewhere. "Zach Randolph's a black hole"....and he then becomes a multi-season allstar for the Grizzlies. "Jamal Crawford is a cancer"...and then becomes a perennial 6th man of the year candidate and a "good lockerroom guy".

We're talking about a guy, in Melo, that just falls short of being a generational talent like he has no value despite being just 31 years old and in his prime. We can and should get a return on something like that. The question is what should we settle for.

good points. Knicks fans besides being impatient are always quick to be overly critical of their team.

I continue to think that teams like the Clips and the Cavs will have tremendous incentive to try and make a deal happen as Melo could be their missing piece. Honestly who else could they reasonably get to put them over the top -- KD maybe but I don't see him going to either team. Melo at least has relationships with Lebron and CP3. And I actually think he'd play better not having to be the 1st option (or in our case, sometimes, first second and third).

And FWIW I think Phil is playing this hand exactly right. For us to get max value for Melo, these other teams and Melo have to be driving the deal, not the other way around. Good business and good poker. Flip it around, imagine if Phil was trying to sell Melo, and the offers in return weren't up to snuff, where would we be then -- even worse off. We're just so damn impatient demanding agressive action, and tearing down a team every 2 or 3 seasons -- where has that succeeded?

And even with the Cavs it's crazy to think Melo wouldn't go to Clevland. We're talking short term there with his best chance of accomplishing a championship

nyk4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:trade melo for draft picks and a good young G
With the draft picks from melo the young player traded for and next year pick. Completely rebuild the backcourt with 5-6 new guys we have the bigs now we put in the process of the backcourt. There is no one year fix in the nba. Hire like Walton he's young smart and he's been involved with a great team. No more rigid triangle bs. Good ball movement based on spacing and a diversity of guards with our quality bigs

Here goes.....again. On the risk you just deem it as ridiculous due to it being a contrary view.

1- We will get no good value or good PG for Melo as the NTC makes it so he has to choose where he would want to go. Therefore giving the Knicks a weak hand in negotiations. Opposing GM's will not give much if they know that is the only desired destination for Melo. And again, Draft picks are not a guarantee. Specially in this weak upcoming draft.
2- Which 5 to 6 guys for the back court. Vazquez. Not any good unrestricted free agents or D league except for same scraps we have now.
And what good PG would want to come to the limited Triangle?
3- We have solid bigs? Rolo rarely plays big minutes now. Reason? KP has struggled after break. Due to fatigue? He is 20? Or is it because of adjustments made by opposing teams? Adjustments that will increase if he is main guy on offense next year.
4- Walton a young mind? A monkey could of sat on the bench at GS and looked like a good young mind? If he comes here he will just be another Phil puppet with limited in game experience.

IMO of course.

Were the T'Wolves shortchanged when they wanted to trade KG, who had a NTC? Were the Celtics shortchanged when they received 3 lottery picks in trading him to the Nets, in spite of his NTC? Why do you insist on talking in absolutes, when this is a gray-matter?

your analogy of garnett is foolish. the guy was a gamer and wanted to was willing to do anything to win a championship - i don't think anyone has ever viewed melo as having that same drive to win a championship as garnett. thus, the idea of him revoking his NTC like garnett to win a championship is foolish.

So because Garnett acted like a jackass on the court, that made him a "gamer" (whatever the hell that means)? If he was such a "gamer" and so obsessed with a championship, why did he linger on the T'Wolves so long, who never really came close to being a contender? With exception to the year they made the Conference Finals, I don't believe they made it out of the first round once. And if you recall, he was quite adament about sticking with the T'Wolves despite them missing the playoffs 2-3 consecutive seasons before he got traded.

And if KG's such a "gamer", why would he elect to head back to the Wolves instead of the Clippers to chase another title? The Wolves can't even make the playoffs, so what could the interest be....other than him positioning himself to become a minority owner after he retires? But I only thought Darth-Melo makes moves like that!

That aside, I think its shortsighted to diminish another player on the basis of your reasoning. Jonas Salk developed a cure for polio (concept was the basis for developing other vaccines). Are all kther doctors "*****s" and lazy for not being just as great?

C Lopez
PF Porzingis
SF Batum
SG Murray (possible move to PG)
PG Grant
6th Galloway
7th Johnson
8th DWill
9th O'Quinn

A young, athletic, versatile group full of shooters, ball movers, and high IQ guys.

NardDogNation wrote:

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:trade melo for draft picks and a good young G
With the draft picks from melo the young player traded for and next year pick. Completely rebuild the backcourt with 5-6 new guys we have the bigs now we put in the process of the backcourt. There is no one year fix in the nba. Hire like Walton he's young smart and he's been involved with a great team. No more rigid triangle bs. Good ball movement based on spacing and a diversity of guards with our quality bigs

Here goes.....again. On the risk you just deem it as ridiculous due to it being a contrary view.

1- We will get no good value or good PG for Melo as the NTC makes it so he has to choose where he would want to go. Therefore giving the Knicks a weak hand in negotiations. Opposing GM's will not give much if they know that is the only desired destination for Melo. And again, Draft picks are not a guarantee. Specially in this weak upcoming draft.
2- Which 5 to 6 guys for the back court. Vazquez. Not any good unrestricted free agents or D league except for same scraps we have now.
And what good PG would want to come to the limited Triangle?
3- We have solid bigs? Rolo rarely plays big minutes now. Reason? KP has struggled after break. Due to fatigue? He is 20? Or is it because of adjustments made by opposing teams? Adjustments that will increase if he is main guy on offense next year.
4- Walton a young mind? A monkey could of sat on the bench at GS and looked like a good young mind? If he comes here he will just be another Phil puppet with limited in game experience.

IMO of course.

Were the T'Wolves shortchanged when they wanted to trade KG, who had a NTC? Were the Celtics shortchanged when they received 3 lottery picks in trading him to the Nets, in spite of his NTC? Why do you insist on talking in absolutes, when this is a gray-matter?

Agreeed, all a gray matter. What forums are for. Don't think we can find find 3 lottery picks for him. As there is only one Prokhorov. But if we did get 3 guaranteed lottery picks, then of course I would be in favor. Just don't see it. And as mentioned in other posts, knee issues will also factor in to offers.

3 lottery picks is an extreme but your position is on the other end of the spectrum. I don't know why but Knick fans continually seem to devalue our assets, only to see their potential realized elsewhere. "Zach Randolph's a black hole"....and he then becomes a multi-season allstar for the Grizzlies. "Jamal Crawford is a cancer"...and then becomes a perennial 6th man of the year candidate and a "good lockerroom guy".

We're talking about a guy, in Melo, that just falls short of being a generational talent like he has no value despite being just 31 years old and in his prime. We can and should get a return on something like that. The question is what should we settle for.

good points. Knicks fans besides being impatient are always quick to be overly critical of their team.

I continue to think that teams like the Clips and the Cavs will have tremendous incentive to try and make a deal happen as Melo could be their missing piece. Honestly who else could they reasonably get to put them over the top -- KD maybe but I don't see him going to either team. Melo at least has relationships with Lebron and CP3. And I actually think he'd play better not having to be the 1st option (or in our case, sometimes, first second and third).

And FWIW I think Phil is playing this hand exactly right. For us to get max value for Melo, these other teams and Melo have to be driving the deal, not the other way around. Good business and good poker. Flip it around, imagine if Phil was trying to sell Melo, and the offers in return weren't up to snuff, where would we be then -- even worse off. We're just so damn impatient demanding agressive action, and tearing down a team every 2 or 3 seasons -- where has that succeeded?

And even with the Cavs it's crazy to think Melo wouldn't go to Clevland. We're talking short term there with his best chance of accomplishing a championship

Exactly what I'm thinking. It's a delicate line that Jackson is walking but he seems to be doing so well. And now that Melo's frustration is becoming apparent, teams are circling like a shark does when blood is in the water. I still think that the market is what it is but there should be at least 4 teams that attempt to vie for his services (LAC, BOS, MIA, and CLE; maybe HOU), which is more than enough to create a bidding war. We saw the returns for Melo the first time around when only the Nets and Knicks were contenders! Hopefully with everything now out in the open, the process of moving him can be accelerated before he potentially has a serious injury.

I don't see Boston or Houston as destinations. Boston is too young. In addition I live in Boston and have never, ever heard anything resembling an admiration that would suggest they'd love him on their team. Houston doesn't have the assets and Harnden AND Melo -- can't see it happening. And while I can see why Miami might want him and vice-versa (best way to stick it to Dolan is win in Miami) not sure how that would actually work.

Having said that, they could be part of a larger trade and I really think Boston is going to feel a lot of pressure. All those picks can be a problem for them as much as an asset. What if they're forced to draft. Who are they going to pick, and what are they going to do with the rest of their team. And I'm not a draftnik but what if that draft pick ends up being lower end of lottery (another Marcus SMart type player? good but not franchise talent).

I think teams like LAC and CLE might all feel close enough AND having closing windows of opportunities with their own players that they would pay a premium.

If we get a starting caliber player please let it be a very good defense PG or a 2G who does many things and makes good decisions! (plus picks of course)

Knixkik wrote:If we trade Melo (a big IF) it will be Melo to Cleveland (or LAC), Love or Blake to Boston, and BK pick and Amir Johnson (for salary purposes) to NY. We get a high pick and quality role player. I will sign Batum to the max, and draft Jamal Murray. Time to add shooters and versatility for the rebuild.

C Lopez
PF Porzingis
SF Batum
SG Murray (possible move to PG)
PG Grant
6th Galloway
7th Johnson
8th DWill
9th O'Quinn

A young, athletic, versatile group full of shooters, ball movers, and high IQ guys.

Thats what I was thinking. If we can somehow do a trade that equals a high 1(Murray) with two high 2's--lets say 2 of Felder Forbes Ulis Deandre Bembrey Derrick Jones Malcolm Brogdon--that would give us a base of 3 new guards. There's a couple of guys I like that wont get draft-- PG Josh Adams from Wyoming and a secondary big Zach Auguste as well. If we say 3-4 new guards--2 of which we commit to playing in the rotation 1-2 of them down to Westchester.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think it would be possible to keep Melo and compete - but we need 2-3 much higher level guards. And a much better coach.

It certainly seems like Melo is getting fed up waiting on it.

I agree about the guards and coach.....But Melo being fed up is bull ****. He knew what he was getting himself into. He thinks like Dolan ......He's trying to build a brand and he's using the attention from the NY media / press to build it. Unfortunately for him, he's receiving a black eye for his basketball legacy, as far as building a championship team around him. But thats the risk he signed up for. Nobody twisted his arm to come or stay. I was hoping he would go to Chicago personally. But now that he's here, I have no pitty for Melo. If anything, the fact that he wasn't able to attract other nba stars is another black eye on him......I've heard more people say they would love to play with KP more than Melo......That says a lot. I think players would love to add Melo to their team, but doesn't want to be on a team where Melo is the alpha dog.......just my personal opinion.

So it's Melo's fault the Knicks have the worst guards in the league? Let Shved go for nothing?

We've all agreed Melo is defending, passing, playing well this season. He's not allowed to be frustrated that his coach diddled a former teammate's wife and got beat up during training camp and got fired? Not allowed to be frustrated that he's playing well but his point guards are the worst in the league?

Melo didn't stay here to build a brand. He stayed to build a winning team. He wouldn't be frustrated if it was all about the brand. He's frustrated just like the rest of us because the Knicks sick right now. And he's frustrated that some fans have made him the scapegoat.

the lack of logic when people talk about Melo never ceases to amaze me. They decide the know a guy, know what drives him and just go with that. I am labeled the Melo apologist but really all I am doing is saying HUH?????

reub wrote:Adding one significant player will make this team a contender. Durant or even Conley. We need to keep this core together and find that piece with a top coach. We are not that far away. In 18 months we'll probably be contenders so hang in there.

You can Add Durant to almost any team in the league and make them a contender. The Knicks aren't getting Durant, they aren't getting Conley. Realistically they could get Derozan, or Batum but will probably end up settling for Eric Gordon. Knicks need picks, they need to draft their own Guards.If ot they will pay 12 to 15 million a year for average starters

blkexec wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think it would be possible to keep Melo and compete - but we need 2-3 much higher level guards. And a much better coach.

It certainly seems like Melo is getting fed up waiting on it.

I agree about the guards and coach.....But Melo being fed up is bull ****. He knew what he was getting himself into. He thinks like Dolan ......He's trying to build a brand and he's using the attention from the NY media / press to build it. Unfortunately for him, he's receiving a black eye for his basketball legacy, as far as building a championship team around him. But thats the risk he signed up for. Nobody twisted his arm to come or stay. I was hoping he would go to Chicago personally. But now that he's here, I have no pitty for Melo. If anything, the fact that he wasn't able to attract other nba stars is another black eye on him......I've heard more people say they would love to play with KP more than Melo......That says a lot. I think players would love to add Melo to their team, but doesn't want to be on a team where Melo is the alpha dog.......just my personal opinion.

You haven't heard anyone say they'd rather play with KP more than Melo, We heard a rumor that Westbrook would be intrigued to play with KP or whatever the word that was used but it was only a rumor.