smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Phil put low emphasis on guards and its killed us. Even in his tweets last year he really down played 3 pt shooting which is the basis for spreading the floor. He shouldnt have gone to his coaches and said do we want Seraphin or Scvhed--he should've made that decision for himself. Knicks also OVER rated Grant drastically.

As did you. That is if we're judging rookies after less than a year.

I still think Grant will get it.

Some here were quick to write off D'Angelo Russell who had 39pts tonight and looked fantastic.

Grant needs consistent minutes - he also needs some shooters to spread the floor and some good picks set so he can run a dang pick and roll. ROLO is our best screener and Grant has hardly ever played with him all season. KP shoots a higher percentage off Grant passes than any other Knicks regular and they hardly play together either.

Grant needs a lot more time before I write him off. And some more PG friendly sets.

stick to the plan, upgrade where it is obvious to upgrade and continue to build a team next year, melo be damned. the drafting of kp was for life after melo in the first place and i see no need for that plan to change. the knicks should not be focussed on this remaining melo-centric any longer.

does the bargnani deal hurt? damn right it does. take your medicine and don't cut off your nose to spite your face. does the calderon for chandler swap hurt? every night it hurts but this is sunk cost. but on this point: acquiring sub-nba guards as has been suggested here is just moving a pile of crap from one corner to another. we need defenders in the backcourt more than ball-dominant ones.

arkrud wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/704831288855941120

Very on point.
Knicks have no NBA level guards.
Everybody know this and I guess this is what Phil and Co will going to work on.
Another 2 years and we will be fine if not interrupted again buy some fulls.

This is the truth right here. Portland will be good for a long time because they have the ability to follow in golden states model and dominate with guard play and fill the rest of the frontcourt and rotation with complimentary pieces. We need to find a great guard in the worst way.

We need JVG or Thibs to bring some PASSION to the sidelines

BRIGGS wrote:

dk7th wrote:i agree with franco and arkrud. no need to do anything drastic. the low win total by espn of 25 games has already been eclipsed. most reasonable and well-informed knick fans predicted 35 wins give or take 3 or 4 wins. that is what is going to happen, and since it was predicted by the sane then there is zero need to call for anything drastic by the less sane or less realistic among the fans/posters.

stick to the plan, upgrade where it is obvious to upgrade and continue to build a team next year, melo be damned. the drafting of kp was for life after melo in the first place and i see no need for that plan to change. the knicks should not be focussed on this remaining melo-centric any longer.

does the bargnani deal hurt? damn right it does. take your medicine and don't cut off your nose to spite your face. does the calderon for chandler swap hurt? every night it hurts but this is sunk cost. but on this point: acquiring sub-nba guards as has been suggested here is just moving a pile of crap from one corner to another. we need defenders in the backcourt more than ball-dominant ones.

Ok but I see very little semblance of a plan. We dont run a smooth offense we dont move the ball and were not very good on D--so where is the plan on the court?

the spirit of the team has been broken, and when that happens the team implodes. we have seen this many many times as knick fans, so there is no need to ask this question, ie where is the plan. knicks had eleven assists last night. that is a sign of lack of collective will that no coach can overcome. i do understand your pain, but beyond the pain the hand wringing is unnecessary. we have just about the worst starting backcourt in the nba, defensively. offensively is no great shakes either, but the defense is just godawful. every suggestion of a backcourt player that has been made you need to look at that player's defensive effectiveness.

you can't make up for bad defense no matter how good (read: selfish and ball-dominant) that player's offense is. that is not how you build a contender.

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i agree with franco and arkrud. no need to do anything drastic. the low win total by espn of 25 games has already been eclipsed. most reasonable and well-informed knick fans predicted 35 wins give or take 3 or 4 wins. that is what is going to happen, and since it was predicted by the sane then there is zero need to call for anything drastic by the less sane or less realistic among the fans/posters.

stick to the plan, upgrade where it is obvious to upgrade and continue to build a team next year, melo be damned. the drafting of kp was for life after melo in the first place and i see no need for that plan to change. the knicks should not be focussed on this remaining melo-centric any longer.

does the bargnani deal hurt? damn right it does. take your medicine and don't cut off your nose to spite your face. does the calderon for chandler swap hurt? every night it hurts but this is sunk cost. but on this point: acquiring sub-nba guards as has been suggested here is just moving a pile of crap from one corner to another. we need defenders in the backcourt more than ball-dominant ones.

+1 this is exactly right. There is nothing shocking about what is going on right now. We are going to finish exactly how the majority of fans predicted. Our disappointments are based solely on being 22-22 at one point, and taking a major slide from there. But continue the path. We have made significant progress since last season and that's all that can be expected. We also found one of the league's future stars in the making as well. A major bonus. We didn't expect that.

Agree with all of this. A lot of chicken littles running around. Even the almighty Warriors took several years. There is a logical path to success for us. It's just going to require patience which seems to be in short supply

It's always been the same around where. We go on a winning streak and life is good and there is hope, we go on a losing streak and we have no plan, identity, or future.

Not many winning streaks lol! Who is staying here anyway? Im really confused what we are doing--do we even have a core of players?? KP Lopez and Melo--but they also dont fit well together.

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i agree with franco and arkrud. no need to do anything drastic. the low win total by espn of 25 games has already been eclipsed. most reasonable and well-informed knick fans predicted 35 wins give or take 3 or 4 wins. that is what is going to happen, and since it was predicted by the sane then there is zero need to call for anything drastic by the less sane or less realistic among the fans/posters.

stick to the plan, upgrade where it is obvious to upgrade and continue to build a team next year, melo be damned. the drafting of kp was for life after melo in the first place and i see no need for that plan to change. the knicks should not be focussed on this remaining melo-centric any longer.

does the bargnani deal hurt? damn right it does. take your medicine and don't cut off your nose to spite your face. does the calderon for chandler swap hurt? every night it hurts but this is sunk cost. but on this point: acquiring sub-nba guards as has been suggested here is just moving a pile of crap from one corner to another. we need defenders in the backcourt more than ball-dominant ones.

+1 this is exactly right. There is nothing shocking about what is going on right now. We are going to finish exactly how the majority of fans predicted. Our disappointments are based solely on being 22-22 at one point, and taking a major slide from there. But continue the path. We have made significant progress since last season and that's all that can be expected. We also found one of the league's future stars in the making as well. A major bonus. We didn't expect that.

Agree with all of this. A lot of chicken littles running around. Even the almighty Warriors took several years. There is a logical path to success for us. It's just going to require patience which seems to be in short supply

It's always been the same around where. We go on a winning streak and life is good and there is hope, we go on a losing streak and we have no plan, identity, or future.

Not many winning streaks lol! Who is staying here anyway? Im really confused what we are doing--do we even have a core of players?? KP Lopez and Melo--but they also dont fit well together.

KP, Lopez, and Melo would fit fine together if we had solid guard play. At the very least, you can't judge them without average guard play or better. And yes there are a lot of question marks, but question marks can't be confused with not having a plan or identity. I think it's pretty obvious Phil has a plan for this team.

Nope nope no they dont. They get beat down the floor consistently they dont guard well together the spacing on offense is terrible. The ball movement stinks. Carmelo Anthony is a stretch 4 KP is a 5-4 and Lopez a 5 so we play 5/5-4 4 together in a league based on pace and ball movement.

We have no core guards NONE zero who is staying Grant? OK but hes yet to even play a good 3 game stretch--he doesnt get PT. Galloway is a robotic undersized 2 back up. For the good moments he has--he also gives it back with bad ones--he could be salvaged with the right guys but hes NO NBA starter.

So we have NO NBA starters going 4ward in the backcourt a frontline that doesnt fit well we dont play thye right way--I mean this is a hot mess.

We need to break Carmelo into assets in a trade. Hes a good NBA player but not good enough in anyway to stop the bleeding of this train wreck.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/704831288855941120

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN/status/704895238448541698

It's the guards!!

Calderon and Afflalo are awful. Gallo has lost his confidence and taken a step back. Vujacic is smart but not capable. Grant is capable and smart but doesn't shoot well and has no confidence.

Going forward, I keep Grant and the rest are expendable.

You must miss how many times our bigs get beat down-court.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:i agree with franco and arkrud. no need to do anything drastic. the low win total by espn of 25 games has already been eclipsed. most reasonable and well-informed knick fans predicted 35 wins give or take 3 or 4 wins. that is what is going to happen, and since it was predicted by the sane then there is zero need to call for anything drastic by the less sane or less realistic among the fans/posters.

stick to the plan, upgrade where it is obvious to upgrade and continue to build a team next year, melo be damned. the drafting of kp was for life after melo in the first place and i see no need for that plan to change. the knicks should not be focussed on this remaining melo-centric any longer.

does the bargnani deal hurt? damn right it does. take your medicine and don't cut off your nose to spite your face. does the calderon for chandler swap hurt? every night it hurts but this is sunk cost. but on this point: acquiring sub-nba guards as has been suggested here is just moving a pile of crap from one corner to another. we need defenders in the backcourt more than ball-dominant ones.

+1 this is exactly right. There is nothing shocking about what is going on right now. We are going to finish exactly how the majority of fans predicted. Our disappointments are based solely on being 22-22 at one point, and taking a major slide from there. But continue the path. We have made significant progress since last season and that's all that can be expected. We also found one of the league's future stars in the making as well. A major bonus. We didn't expect that.

Agree with all of this. A lot of chicken littles running around. Even the almighty Warriors took several years. There is a logical path to success for us. It's just going to require patience which seems to be in short supply

It's always been the same around where. We go on a winning streak and life is good and there is hope, we go on a losing streak and we have no plan, identity, or future.

Not many winning streaks lol! Who is staying here anyway? Im really confused what we are doing--do we even have a core of players?? KP Lopez and Melo--but they also dont fit well together.

KP, Lopez, and Melo would fit fine together if we had solid guard play. At the very least, you can't judge them without average guard play or better. And yes there are a lot of question marks, but question marks can't be confused with not having a plan or identity. I think it's pretty obvious Phil has a plan for this team.

Nope nope no they dont. They get beat down the floor consistently they dont guard well together the spacing on offense is terrible. The ball movement stinks. Carmelo Anthony is a stretch 4 KP is a 5-4 and Lopez a 5 so we play 5/5-4 4 together in a league based on pace and ball movement.

We have no core guards NONE zero who is staying Grant? OK but hes yet to even play a good 3 game stretch--he doesnt get PT. Galloway is a robotic undersized 2 back up. For the good moments he has--he also gives it back with bad ones--he could be salvaged with the right guys but hes NO NBA starter.

So we have NO NBA starters going 4ward in the backcourt a frontline that doesnt fit well we dont play thye right way--I mean this is a hot mess.

We need to break Carmelo into assets in a trade. Hes a good NBA player but not good enough in anyway to stop the bleeding of this train wreck.

The Knicks are going to win twice as many games as they did last season, give or take. We also have a future star big man who fits this new era of NBA basketball to a tee. I am not going to get into dissecting all that is right and wrong, in my opinion, with your post, but if your expectation of this team was beyond doubling our win total and finding our next star, then you are right, we are a mess. As bad as our back court is, which we can all agree on, if you expected us to fix all 5 positions in one off-season, then you're right, we are a mess. You see how silly all of that sounds? A rebuild will take time. If you find a 20-year star player to build around in the first full year of a rebuild, then it is an admirable job, because that is a very hard thing to do.

newyorker4ever wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/704831288855941120

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/FisolaNYDN/status/704895238448541698

It's the guards!!

Calderon and Afflalo are awful. Gallo has lost his confidence and taken a step back. Vujacic is smart but not capable. Grant is capable and smart but doesn't shoot well and has no confidence.

Going forward, I keep Grant and the rest are expendable.

You must miss how many times our bigs get beat down-court.

On Turnovers by the guards? Or long misses by the guards? Probably often. Like most.

You still have not answered my question to you about what the records of each team would be if NY and Toronto traded backcourts. Answer that please. Give me just Calderon for Lowry , what then? You know the answer but it takes away from your bashing of RoLo constantly.

You're right and Briggs is wrong which happens quite often on here. You put a legit guard like Lowry on this team and we become a good team and there's no doubt about that.

BS this teams problems go much father then 1 guard.