jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:You realize when he goes Mills will be taking over, don't you. Before Phil, it was Dolan and Mills running the team- do you really think that was better?

Was it worse? We've gone like 40-100 the last 2 years. If KP doesn't become a superstar, then I don't think we'll be able to point to anything Phil has done and say it was better than what the previous GMs did here.

No, of course the past wasn't worse. It was great!

2009-10 29-53, .354, No playoffs
2008-09 32-50, .390, No playoffs
2007-08 23-59, .280, No playoffs
2006-07 33-49, .402, No playoffs
2005-06 23-59, .280, No playoffs

Yeah, you're right on there, Bonn. Give me those other GM's any day of the week!

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:You realize when he goes Mills will be taking over, don't you. Before Phil, it was Dolan and Mills running the team- do you really think that was better?

Was it worse? We've gone like 40-100 the last 2 years. If KP doesn't become a superstar, then I don't think we'll be able to point to anything Phil has done and say it was better than what the previous GMs did here.

No, of course the past wasn't worse. It was great!

2009-10 29-53, .354, No playoffs
2008-09 32-50, .390, No playoffs
2007-08 23-59, .280, No playoffs
2006-07 33-49, .402, No playoffs
2005-06 23-59, .280, No playoffs

Yeah, you're right on there, Bonn. Give me those other GM's any day of the week!

Are you sure you want to list winning percentages? Can you tell me what 40 divided by 140 is?
Note that I did not say the past was better. I asked if it was really worse. It's probably about the same. We're just an overpiced lottery team again.

Still not understanding how this situation is the same as previous. We're starting with a high draft pick as part of the core. That hasn't really been the case before. Even with Gallinari he wasn't really a Franchise level draft pick. Good young player but not the same as a top 5 pick. It's not Phil's fault we don't have our pick this year. At least he stashed Willy for next year.

They should also have some cap space this summer. The process of rebuilding this team is ongoing and the needs are pretty clear at this point. BACKCOURT!!!

Phil unfortunately is paying for others incompetence. The previous GM's stripped him of his picks in 2/3 seasons he has been here. Which is a tremendous disadvantage and would have allowed us to acquire a better lead guard or draft one.

Outside of the Chandler deal which was horrible, he's done a nice job. All contracts allow the team to maintain flexibility and he locked in a solid center and at great potential franchise talent. He really hasn't had a lot to work with here.

MS wrote:This franchise unfortunately is probably one of the top 5 worst in the NBA. Because of the musical chairs with GM's and coaches it's hard to ever take the Knicks seriously.

Phil unfortunately is paying for others incompetence. The previous GM's stripped him of his picks in 2/3 seasons he has been here. Which is a tremendous disadvantage and would have allowed us to acquire a better lead guard or draft one.

Outside of the Chandler deal which was horrible, he's done a nice job. All contracts allow the team to maintain flexibility and he locked in a solid center and at great potential franchise talent. He really hasn't had a lot to work with here.

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:This franchise unfortunately is probably one of the top 5 worst in the NBA. Because of the musical chairs with GM's and coaches it's hard to ever take the Knicks seriously.

Phil unfortunately is paying for others incompetence. The previous GM's stripped him of his picks in 2/3 seasons he has been here. Which is a tremendous disadvantage and would have allowed us to acquire a better lead guard or draft one.

Outside of the Chandler deal which was horrible, he's done a nice job. All contracts allow the team to maintain flexibility and he locked in a solid center and at great potential franchise talent. He really hasn't had a lot to work with here.

yea this... at the very worst Lopez and KP are building block guys. This offseason its the backcourt. Phil has some resources to work with. He needs to make it happen. AA/Calderon are fine for stop gaps. Not much else to work with

Gotta really look at the available players at PG and SG this summer:

PLAYER          POS.    AGE     YOE     FROM    TO      2015 CAP HIT    STATUS
Mike Conley	PG	28	8	MEM	TBD	$9,588,426	UFA
Rajon Rondo	PG	30	9	SAC	TBD	$9,500,000	UFA
Brandon Jennings PG	26	6	ORL	TBD	$8,344,497	UFA
Greivis Vasquez	PG	29	5	MIL	TBD	$6,600,000	UFA
Mario Chalmers	PG	29	7	MEM	TBD	$4,300,000	UFA
Raymond Felton	PG	31	10	DAL	TBD	$3,950,313	UFA
Norris Cole	PG	27	4	NOP	TBD	$3,036,927	UFA
Jerryd Bayless	PG	27	7	MIL	TBD	$3,000,000	UFA
D.J. Augustin	PG	28	7	DEN	TBD	$3,000,000	UFA
Brian Roberts	PG	30	3	POR	TBD	$2,854,940	UFA
Aaron Brooks	PG	31	7	CHI	TBD	$2,250,000	UFA
Steve Blake	PG	35	12	DET	TBD	$2,170,465	UFA
Ramon Sessions	PG	29	8	WAS	TBD	$2,170,465	UFA
Beno Udrih	PG	33	11	MIA	TBD	$2,170,465	UFA
Gary Neal	PG	31	5	WAS	TBD	$2,139,000	UFA
Ishmael Smith	PG	27	5	PHI	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Ronnie Price	PG	32	10	PHX	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Pablo Prigioni	PG	38	3	LAC	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Donald Sloan	PG	28	4	BKN	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Isaiah Canaan	PG	24	2	PHI	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Andre Miller	PG	39	16	MIN	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Ray McCallum	PG	24	2	SAS	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Toney Douglas	PG	29	6	NOP	TBD	$924,987	UFA
Jordan Clarkson	PG	23	1	LAL	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Langston Galloway PG	24	1	NYK	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Marcelo Huertas	PG	32		LAL	TBD	$525,093	RFA
PLAYER          POS.    AGE     YOE     FROM    TO      2015 CAP HIT    STATUS
Dwyane Wade	SG	34	12	MIA	TBD	$20,000,000	UFA
Eric Gordon	SG	27	7	NOP	TBD	$15,514,031	UFA
O.J. Mayo	SG	28	7	MIL	TBD	$8,000,000	UFA
Gerald Henderson SG	28	6	POR	TBD	$6,000,000	UFA
Bradley Beal	SG	22	3	WAS	TBD	$5,694,674	RFA
Jamal Crawford	SG	35	15	LAC	TBD	$5,675,000	UFA
Courtney Lee	SG	30	7	CHA	TBD	$5,675,000	UFA
Dion Waiters	SG	24	3	OKC	TBD	$5,138,430	RFA
Jared Dudley	SG	30	8	WAS	TBD	$4,375,000	UFA
Randy Foye	SG	32	9	OKC	TBD	$3,135,000	UFA
Kirk Hinrich	SG	35	12	ATL	TBD	$2,993,489	UFA
Leandro Barbosa	SG	33	12	GSW	TBD	$2,500,000	UFA
Evan Fournier	SG	23	3	ORL	TBD	$2,288,204	RFA
Kent Bazemore	SG	26	3	ATL	TBD	$2,000,000	UFA
Sergey Karasev	SG	22	2	BKN	TBD	$1,599,840	RFA
Brandon Rush	SG	30	7	GSW	TBD	$1,270,964	UFA
P.J. Hairston	SG	23	1	MEM	TBD	$1,201,440	UFA
Garrett Temple	SG	29	5	WAS	TBD	$1,100,602	UFA
E'Twaun Moore	SG	26	4	CHI	TBD	$1,015,421	UFA
Gerald Green	SG	30	8	MIA	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Sasha Vujacic	SG	31	8	NYK	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Ian Clark	SG	24	2	GSW	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Troy Daniels	SG	24	2	CHA	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Marcus Thornton	SG	28	6	HOU	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Mike Miller	SG	36	15	DEN	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Jason Terry	SG	38	16	HOU	TBD	$942,276	UFA
Markel Brown	SG	24	1	BKN	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Tyler Johnson	SG	22	1	MIA	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Tony Wroten Jr.	SG	22	3	PHI	TBD	-	        RFA

gunsnewing wrote:Instead of firing Phil can we can Mills and get a real NBA GM in here who understands how the NBA and he cap works?

So that we can get the backcourt of Shumpert and Rubio you always dreamed about?

gunsnewing wrote:Martin how come Knicks fans never gave Shumpert any credit for being the best perimeter defender on the team. Best we had since Sprewell and credit for doing some of the little things to help us win but give credit to Robin Lopez for the same things?

he didn't get any credit because he wasn't that good. to call him the best perimeter defender since sprewell isn't saying much, there's not much competition for that honor. he was horribly inconsistent offensively and defensively he was never a shut-down defender, which he had to do if he wanted to be a starter. overall a very a mediocre player.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:This franchise unfortunately is probably one of the top 5 worst in the NBA. Because of the musical chairs with GM's and coaches it's hard to ever take the Knicks seriously.

Phil unfortunately is paying for others incompetence. The previous GM's stripped him of his picks in 2/3 seasons he has been here. Which is a tremendous disadvantage and would have allowed us to acquire a better lead guard or draft one.

Outside of the Chandler deal which was horrible, he's done a nice job. All contracts allow the team to maintain flexibility and he locked in a solid center and at great potential franchise talent. He really hasn't had a lot to work with here.

yea this... at the very worst Lopez and KP are building block guys. This offseason its the backcourt. Phil has some resources to work with. He needs to make it happen. AA/Calderon are fine for stop gaps. Not much else to work with

Gotta really look at the available players at PG and SG this summer:

PLAYER          POS.    AGE     YOE     FROM    TO      2015 CAP HIT    STATUS
Mike Conley	PG	28	8	MEM	TBD	$9,588,426	UFA
Rajon Rondo	PG	30	9	SAC	TBD	$9,500,000	UFA
Brandon Jennings PG	26	6	ORL	TBD	$8,344,497	UFA
Greivis Vasquez	PG	29	5	MIL	TBD	$6,600,000	UFA
Mario Chalmers	PG	29	7	MEM	TBD	$4,300,000	UFA
Raymond Felton	PG	31	10	DAL	TBD	$3,950,313	UFA
Norris Cole	PG	27	4	NOP	TBD	$3,036,927	UFA
Jerryd Bayless	PG	27	7	MIL	TBD	$3,000,000	UFA
D.J. Augustin	PG	28	7	DEN	TBD	$3,000,000	UFA
Brian Roberts	PG	30	3	POR	TBD	$2,854,940	UFA
Aaron Brooks	PG	31	7	CHI	TBD	$2,250,000	UFA
Steve Blake	PG	35	12	DET	TBD	$2,170,465	UFA
Ramon Sessions	PG	29	8	WAS	TBD	$2,170,465	UFA
Beno Udrih	PG	33	11	MIA	TBD	$2,170,465	UFA
Gary Neal	PG	31	5	WAS	TBD	$2,139,000	UFA
Ishmael Smith	PG	27	5	PHI	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Ronnie Price	PG	32	10	PHX	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Pablo Prigioni	PG	38	3	LAC	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Donald Sloan	PG	28	4	BKN	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Isaiah Canaan	PG	24	2	PHI	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Andre Miller	PG	39	16	MIN	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Ray McCallum	PG	24	2	SAS	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Toney Douglas	PG	29	6	NOP	TBD	$924,987	UFA
Jordan Clarkson	PG	23	1	LAL	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Langston Galloway PG	24	1	NYK	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Marcelo Huertas	PG	32		LAL	TBD	$525,093	RFA
PLAYER          POS.    AGE     YOE     FROM    TO      2015 CAP HIT    STATUS
Dwyane Wade	SG	34	12	MIA	TBD	$20,000,000	UFA
Eric Gordon	SG	27	7	NOP	TBD	$15,514,031	UFA
O.J. Mayo	SG	28	7	MIL	TBD	$8,000,000	UFA
Gerald Henderson SG	28	6	POR	TBD	$6,000,000	UFA
Bradley Beal	SG	22	3	WAS	TBD	$5,694,674	RFA
Jamal Crawford	SG	35	15	LAC	TBD	$5,675,000	UFA
Courtney Lee	SG	30	7	CHA	TBD	$5,675,000	UFA
Dion Waiters	SG	24	3	OKC	TBD	$5,138,430	RFA
Jared Dudley	SG	30	8	WAS	TBD	$4,375,000	UFA
Randy Foye	SG	32	9	OKC	TBD	$3,135,000	UFA
Kirk Hinrich	SG	35	12	ATL	TBD	$2,993,489	UFA
Leandro Barbosa	SG	33	12	GSW	TBD	$2,500,000	UFA
Evan Fournier	SG	23	3	ORL	TBD	$2,288,204	RFA
Kent Bazemore	SG	26	3	ATL	TBD	$2,000,000	UFA
Sergey Karasev	SG	22	2	BKN	TBD	$1,599,840	RFA
Brandon Rush	SG	30	7	GSW	TBD	$1,270,964	UFA
P.J. Hairston	SG	23	1	MEM	TBD	$1,201,440	UFA
Garrett Temple	SG	29	5	WAS	TBD	$1,100,602	UFA
E'Twaun Moore	SG	26	4	CHI	TBD	$1,015,421	UFA
Gerald Green	SG	30	8	MIA	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Sasha Vujacic	SG	31	8	NYK	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Ian Clark	SG	24	2	GSW	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Troy Daniels	SG	24	2	CHA	TBD	$947,276	RFA
Marcus Thornton	SG	28	6	HOU	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Mike Miller	SG	36	15	DEN	TBD	$947,276	UFA
Jason Terry	SG	38	16	HOU	TBD	$942,276	UFA
Markel Brown	SG	24	1	BKN	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Tyler Johnson	SG	22	1	MIA	TBD	$845,059	RFA
Tony Wroten Jr.	SG	22	3	PHI	TBD	-	        RFA

It's all about the guards.

I would not give Conley the Max. He is 30 this year. That means 2 max guys both in their 30's? No thanks.
Derozan is a max guy for me. 26 years old. Scoring guard. Perfect.

For PG, I would look at the next level for NY. Clarkson might be a good fit. only 23 years old!

I like Turner or Barnes as a 6th man role and Melo insurance.

Can NY get all that ? Only if Calderon/AA and Dwill are gone...but they have to try!

Clarkson
Derozan
Melo
KP
RoLO

Turner
KOQ
Hernangomez
LT
Gallo
Grant

That is a good team and with DD, JC and KP they can grow together! I am sure there are guys who slip thru the gaps that can fill out the roster.

edit - Need some long range shooters too!

Clarkson
Galloway
Cole
Beal-not on a max deal(he would a been #1,but dude may be on a minutes limit the rest of his career)

I don't want both guard spots over 29/30 years of age. I read on the front page the article about Courtney Lee, who is basically a younger Afflalo. I would love to add a guy like him along with another YOUNGER swing guard in the back court.

I said it before, the triangle is more about roles than skill even though higher skill translates into performing your role better.

The old Bulls had a shooter at the point position(Kerr, Armstrong) and Jordan running the offense from the 2 guard spot. Pippin and Grant were you defenders/versatile well rounded players while Cartwright was there to defend the middle. Later on Phil super-sized his players Ron Harper instead of mini PG'S. A 6-11 Kukoc instead of Grant, and Longley/Dele where plug and plays for Cartwright.

The Lakers ran the offense through Shaq and had the same riles as the Bulls had with Odom, Fisher, a young Kobe and later with Kobe and Pau.

I think the key to this offense is to have at least 1 shooter, 2 3 and D guys and a rim protector and 1 main offensive guy that you can run your offense through.

I think the problem here is, and I don't know if he can or not, Carmelo, not the guards should be initiating the offense and facilitating off his scoring. Carmelo, should have the ball in his hands on every offensive possession. He needs to get off early and then facilitate when he has the other team's attention.

This offense bears no resemblance, even in the most rudimentary aspects, to that of the triangle of the Lakers and Bulls. And I don't think it is because they are just learning it. It is because these pieces don't fit their roles. That is why I don't understand the fascination with guys like Jeff Teague. This offense is better built for guys like Oladipo and Bledsoe.