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how to fix the knicks this season going forward
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jrodmc
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2/24/2016  10:44 AM
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

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Jmpasq
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2/24/2016  10:47 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

You forget Dolan was so shook by Ujiri's continued fleecing that he outsmarted himself and VETOED the Kyle Lowry trade to New York....

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-blocks-knicks-deal-raptors-lowry-article-1.1546553

Seriously that was the trade we should of done, imagine if we traded the 2016 for Lowry instead of Bargs. This team would be in the playoffs, although we might not of gotten KP

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
jrodmc
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2/24/2016  10:50 AM
By the way, I agree with you, starting Galloway and Jose has to be better than watching AA do his Starks on Steroids show week after week...

I cant wait to see what Jimmy Jimmer gets ranked in def plus minus when he has garnered enough minutes to get ranked...

crzymdups
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2/24/2016  10:53 AM
I agree about starting Galloway and Calderon - I think that's a stronger, more balanced starting group.

Afflalo can be the focal point of the bench offense in the post.

I think that's a more balanced starting and bench unit. I don't know how much difference it'd make.

¿ △ ?
Finestrg
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2/24/2016  11:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/24/2016  2:51 PM
Personally, I don't think swapping Galloway for Calderon in the starting lineup is going to do much for us at all.

The fix for this year (after things had clearly gone south) was to first explore trades for known quantities at the deadline. No doubt we did that--we heard Jeff Teague, Dennis Schroder, even rumblings about trading Melo in a couple of hypothetical blockbusters.

Then when all that went nowhere and the deadline came and went, I contend we should've jumped on 2, not one but TWO of the PREMIER DL guards--I think we needed the guard help that bad. Still do. I recommended Russ Smith and Sean Kilpatrick (or Terrico White). That would've been 1 much faster/much more dynamic ball-handling guard with good passing ability/two-way skills and 1 SG with enough size/strength + innate scoring ability (White also possesses extreme athleticism which, along with Russ Smith's speed/quickness could've really helped out D-Will realize his full potential on that 2nd unit--potentially an added bonus. Not only could we have improved the guard play tenfold, we could've also gotten more production/better play out of one of our existing rotation reserves). Hey at least we brought up Jimmer Fredette. I personally would've lined up these other guards first but OK--let's see what Jimmer's got. There are a few drawbacks (lack of size, lack of a true position, his teflon D) but some positives as well (he can really shoot it and he doesn't lack confidence). Anyone who thinks all DL guys suck or whatever (beyond narrow-minded imo), think of the dreck we're throwing out there every night--guys that aren't getting it done.

Now there's a couple of problems here: (1) right off the top, Melo should've welcomed Jimmer much more than he did. Not a big deal I guess but it bothered me. If you all recall, his first public reaction to drafting Iman Shumpert on twitter was poor (bitter we didn't draft his boy Josh Selby). Then he never embraced Jeremy Lin. Then same thing when KP was first drafted. Anyone else see the ****ed up pattern with him? The dude's a baby, man, point blank. Very immature, bordering on low class. This guy's no leader. Real leaders, esp. ones in his dire situation, embrace the help any way they can get it not to mention make any new teammate feel welcome..Instead of mocking Fredette, calling him "Jimmy," and then after knowing Jimmer was on his way, saying to the reporter, "I thought you were telling me we were about to sign someone," maybe he should've been more diplomatic about it and taken the high road. Why take the low road all the time? Believe me, people see that. Who did Melo recruit this off-season exactly? Did we land any of the premier FAs last summer? Not a one..

Problem 2: Phil/Rambis think they owe guys like Calderon, Galloway, Vujacic etc. WAY TOO MUCH. THESE GUYS SUCK--OPEN YOUR EYES!!! Collectively, they've gotten a chance and haven't done a thing with it. When do you turn the friggin' page already?? You get the feeling they're not ready to. They're still doling out the loyalty to these 3 by the truckload. Rambis just came out and basically said Jimmer's not displacing any of these guys. The problem is Jimmer was just brought in for window dressing when what they really need to do is yank the damn window right outta the wall because it rotted out and replace it. Even if they replaced it with a cheap window from Home Depot, it would be an improvement.. I feel this is just gonna be another one of these BS 10-day contracts you see all the time where it's just done for insurance and that's it. Meanwhile, there's a chance Jimmer could really help or at least show he's a player we could retain for next year on a good contract...That's how I see Russ Smith, Sean Kilpatrick and Terrico White as well. Not that I'm wishing injury on any of our current guards but that's what I think it'll take to really see Jimmer get some extended PT.. I think that's a mistake.

And another secondary problem I've always suspected -- I don't think Dolan likes waiving/buying out people and eating money. Hey, I get that--he's had to do that in the past with Marbury, with Larry Brown, etc., but those were high-profile personalities that weren't working out with a lot of money still owed to them. Still he did it but I get the feel he may have said "never again." What I'm saying here is that if Phil ever came to him and said "look, we need to clear Sasha V off the slate so we can bring in another guard," Dolan's gotta be on board with that. Is he?? It's such a nominal amount of cash (the prorated amount that's left on Sasha's deal). Again, this is a secondary issue but something I wonder about. Of course, something like this has got to come from Phil first though. Is he ready to go to Sasha and say 'look, we're bringing in another guard we need to take a look at for the rest of the year. I'm sorry but you've been waived"? And then is Dolan prepared to cut Sasha a nominal severance check and move on? Again, all these guys--Phil, Rambis, Dolan--need to be ready to turn the page, be aggressive and try different things. That would've been my play to fix things. I don't think these guys are ready to go at it like that.

knicks1248
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2/24/2016  11:34 AM
fishmike wrote:I don't have an issue with that. I would go with Grant and Jose to start, use AA to score off the bench. Let Grant play through some mistakes

+1000000

And give DWILL more damn minutes, he may not be the best defender, but he gets to the line, can finshish on the fast brake, and is rebounding much better.

regulate Sasha to the coaching staff

ES
dk7th
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2/24/2016  1:45 PM
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

seeing how things have panned out, would you have endorsed the same deal back then?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
jrodmc
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2/24/2016  2:27 PM
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

seeing how things have panned out, would you have endorsed the same deal back then?


No, making the playoffs, having a top 10 player to watch, going to the second round for the first time since Spree was running around...

Nah, I really, really liked my Knicks life before the deal:

2009-10 29-53, .354, No playoffs
2008-09 32-50, .390, No playoffs
2007-08 23-59, .280, No playoffs
2006-07 33-49, .402, No playoffs
2005-06 23-59, .280, No playoffs

And before you say he would have come here the following season without a deal, do you honestly think Melo was a Knicks lock if he got to spend quality time watching Stat crash and burn?

wow, I can't believe I'm asking you if Melo would have come here.

ChuckBuck
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2/24/2016  2:40 PM
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

seeing how things have panned out, would you have endorsed the same deal back then?


No, making the playoffs, having a top 10 player to watch, going to the second round for the first time since Spree was running around...

Nah, I really, really liked my Knicks life before the deal:

2009-10 29-53, .354, No playoffs
2008-09 32-50, .390, No playoffs
2007-08 23-59, .280, No playoffs
2006-07 33-49, .402, No playoffs
2005-06 23-59, .280, No playoffs

And before you say he would have come here the following season without a deal, do you honestly think Melo was a Knicks lock if he got to spend quality time watching Stat crash and burn?

wow, I can't believe I'm asking you if Melo would have come here.

Yay! Melo is the greatest Knick since Stephon Marbury since he also made the playoffs 1 season. Half the league makes the playoffs every year!

Give me a break....

dk7th
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2/24/2016  3:16 PM
crzymdups wrote:I agree about starting Galloway and Calderon - I think that's a stronger, more balanced starting group.

Afflalo can be the focal point of the bench offense in the post.

I think that's a more balanced starting and bench unit. I don't know how much difference it'd make.

only one way to find out. anything is better than afflalo out there at the 2 and calderon at the 1.

1 galloway
2 calderon
3 melo
4 kp
5 lopez

afflalo, thomas, williams + 1 other bench guy

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/24/2016  3:20 PM
dk7th wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I agree about starting Galloway and Calderon - I think that's a stronger, more balanced starting group.

Afflalo can be the focal point of the bench offense in the post.

I think that's a more balanced starting and bench unit. I don't know how much difference it'd make.

only one way to find out. anything is better than afflalo out there at the 2 and calderon at the 1.

1 galloway
2 calderon
3 melo
4 kp
5 lopez

afflalo, thomas, williams + 1 other bench guy

I really want Grant playing. Calderon can play but lmited. As soon as the other team goes at him, he must go out.

crzymdups
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2/24/2016  4:04 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
dk7th wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I agree about starting Galloway and Calderon - I think that's a stronger, more balanced starting group.

Afflalo can be the focal point of the bench offense in the post.

I think that's a more balanced starting and bench unit. I don't know how much difference it'd make.

only one way to find out. anything is better than afflalo out there at the 2 and calderon at the 1.

1 galloway
2 calderon
3 melo
4 kp
5 lopez

afflalo, thomas, williams + 1 other bench guy

I really want Grant playing. Calderon can play but lmited. As soon as the other team goes at him, he must go out.

Yeah, I agree - I'd go something like:

Galloway
Calderon
Melo
KP / Lance
Lopez

Grant
Afflalo
Lance
DWill
KP

Play Lance some minutes with Rolo and Melo. I agree with Briggs that KP is more effective when he's the center lately.

¿ △ ?
dk7th
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2/24/2016  5:23 PM
crzymdups wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
dk7th wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I agree about starting Galloway and Calderon - I think that's a stronger, more balanced starting group.

Afflalo can be the focal point of the bench offense in the post.

I think that's a more balanced starting and bench unit. I don't know how much difference it'd make.

only one way to find out. anything is better than afflalo out there at the 2 and calderon at the 1.

1 galloway
2 calderon
3 melo
4 kp
5 lopez

afflalo, thomas, williams + 1 other bench guy

I really want Grant playing. Calderon can play but lmited. As soon as the other team goes at him, he must go out.

Yeah, I agree - I'd go something like:

Galloway
Calderon
Melo
KP / Lance
Lopez

Grant
Afflalo
Lance
DWill
KP

Play Lance some minutes with Rolo and Melo. I agree with Briggs that KP is more effective when he's the center lately.

the only reason to play him at center is that it gets him the ball earlier in the shot clock and gives him a chance to be a passing playmaker.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dk7th
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2/24/2016  5:47 PM
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

broad strokes:

1)after years of isiah thomas/james dolan ineptitude the nba steps in and forces dolan to hire walsh
2)two years of roster flush, ridding the knicks of bad long contracts for bad shorter contracts
3)get under the cap and be in the lbj sweepstakes
4)bring in amare stoudemire, a sf/pf, under pressure from ownership: dolan wants a "name" to fill msg
5)lbj pulls a collusion fast one and takes his talents to south beach
6)knicks 24-24 and headed for an 8th spot in the playoffs that year in a very weak east
7)lockout looms with wil chandler expiring, gallo on a rookie deal, mozgov developing
8)felton on a two-year audition deal drawn up by walsh, clearly a move to prepare for a pg upgrade

there was NO NEED to acquire another sf/pf, and NO NEED to trade away pieces for a player who wanted to be here. if he wants to money the nets could have paid for him or he could have stayed. people who want to blame everything on dolan are exonerating melo for chasing money. NO

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
gunsnewing
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2/24/2016  5:51 PM
^and if Melo wasn't chasing max money then he certainly was the 2nd go around
gunsnewing
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2/24/2016  5:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/24/2016  5:55 PM
It's not really Melo's fault albeit it you would like him to be driven by winning over money and brand. Dolan signs of on these deals. Dolan has been at this since day 1. Starting with giving H20 7yrs $100mil and the. Maxing out Amare and not insuring his contract
TAB
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2/24/2016  6:07 PM
Win
HofstraBBall
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2/24/2016  6:50 PM
dk7th wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I agree about starting Galloway and Calderon - I think that's a stronger, more balanced starting group.

Afflalo can be the focal point of the bench offense in the post.

I think that's a more balanced starting and bench unit. I don't know how much difference it'd make.

only one way to find out. anything is better than afflalo out there at the 2 and calderon at the 1.

1 galloway
2 calderon
3 melo
4 kp
5 lopez

afflalo, thomas, williams + 1 other bench guy

Would prefer Grant at 1. Not his biggest supporter but at least we can find out quickly if he is going to make it. And whether he can get a jump shot. And a first round pick deserves a chance before being cast away. Would like to see him allowed to run more PnR's with KP. May take KP away from 3pt line and allow him to be in a more familiar role. Galloway has not showed to be much of an assist guy. And is Shooting .38% in last 10. Not exactly an uptrend. Also agree that if anyone needs to be put on the bench its Afflalo.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
jrodmc
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2/25/2016  9:57 AM
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

broad strokes:

1)after years of isiah thomas/james dolan ineptitude the nba steps in and forces dolan to hire walsh
2)two years of roster flush, ridding the knicks of bad long contracts for bad shorter contracts
3)get under the cap and be in the lbj sweepstakes
4)bring in amare stoudemire, a sf/pf, under pressure from ownership: dolan wants a "name" to fill msg
5)lbj pulls a collusion fast one and takes his talents to south beach
6)knicks 24-24 and headed for an 8th spot in the playoffs that year in a very weak east
7)lockout looms with wil chandler expiring, gallo on a rookie deal, mozgov developing
8)felton on a two-year audition deal drawn up by walsh, clearly a move to prepare for a pg upgrade

there was NO NEED to acquire another sf/pf, and NO NEED to trade away pieces for a player who wanted to be here. if he wants to money the nets could have paid for him or he could have stayed. people who want to blame everything on dolan are exonerating melo for chasing money. NO

an even broader overview:
1) You say Melo chases money, but he also wants to be "here". One must make up one's mind about the causation of a particular evil. Please pick one. He was either going to force his way here or go get all those precious rubles to play near Red Hook. I'm pretty sure Melo in Brooklyn would have saved you years of angst.
2) your final NO NEED premise overlooks the fact that the uninsured Stat was already broken down.
3) no need for a SF? when your two options are BrokeBackIRooster and the Flatline Mayor? Really?
4) I'm not sure if your point 8) is looking at 5 years ago through the Golden State lens of here and now.
5) Knicks headed for 8th spot with a broken down Stat? And Gallo was just a lock to remain healthy and pick up all that double double machine slack? take another hit.

You say the lockouts looming, but there's NO NEED to trade for a player who could have ended up at the Barclays.

The trade improved our franchise. YES.

ChuckBuck
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2/25/2016  10:08 AM
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
dk7th wrote:ujiri fleeced dolan in the melo trade, left denver for toronto aaaaannnnnd fleeced dolan again with bargnani.

ugh

dk7th, just when I was still amazed that your first line of the OP wasn't "1. TRADE THE DOUCHELO!!!", you have to revert to form.

What's it going to take to stop "The Trade" was a "fleecing" madness? You've already written off the Mayor and Moz, and Gallo, by your own account is the greatest forward on the IR. How, exactly did we get fleeced? By getting Ray Felton back instead of one of the other three? The 3 million dollars? The draft picks that we would have probably pissed away on another Bargs-type trade?

What exactly do you have to type out yourself in order to stop? When Denver has to move the team to Columbus, Ohio?

broad strokes:

1)after years of isiah thomas/james dolan ineptitude the nba steps in and forces dolan to hire walsh
2)two years of roster flush, ridding the knicks of bad long contracts for bad shorter contracts
3)get under the cap and be in the lbj sweepstakes
4)bring in amare stoudemire, a sf/pf, under pressure from ownership: dolan wants a "name" to fill msg
5)lbj pulls a collusion fast one and takes his talents to south beach
6)knicks 24-24 and headed for an 8th spot in the playoffs that year in a very weak east
7)lockout looms with wil chandler expiring, gallo on a rookie deal, mozgov developing
8)felton on a two-year audition deal drawn up by walsh, clearly a move to prepare for a pg upgrade

there was NO NEED to acquire another sf/pf, and NO NEED to trade away pieces for a player who wanted to be here. if he wants to money the nets could have paid for him or he could have stayed. people who want to blame everything on dolan are exonerating melo for chasing money. NO

an even broader overview:
1) You say Melo chases money, but he also wants to be "here". One must make up one's mind about the causation of a particular evil. Please pick one. He was either going to force his way here or go get all those precious rubles to play near Red Hook. I'm pretty sure Melo in Brooklyn would have saved you years of angst.
2) your final NO NEED premise overlooks the fact that the uninsured Stat was already broken down.
3) no need for a SF? when your two options are BrokeBackIRooster and the Flatline Mayor? Really?
4) I'm not sure if your point 8) is looking at 5 years ago through the Golden State lens of here and now.
5) Knicks headed for 8th spot with a broken down Stat? And Gallo was just a lock to remain healthy and pick up all that double double machine slack? take another hit.

You say the lockouts looming, but there's NO NEED to trade for a player who could have ended up at the Barclays.

The trade improved our franchise. YES.

Wow, the trade really improved our franchise. Look at how many championship banne.....

Oh.

how to fix the knicks this season going forward

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