nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

EXCELLENT POST!!! This is the most concise and clear explanation of what is going on with this team. It's not very complicated. If the guards are bad you simply can't win.

I have nothing against Jose but he just got old and can't get the job done. None of our other guards are quality NBA guards either. When our guards were at least playing halfway decent this team could win some games or at least stay competitive! If the guards are gonna suck like this we have no chance. I'm pretty sure Phil knows this. We can expect he'll use every bit of cap to bring in better guards this summer.

For now I hope Rambis shuts Jose down and just plays the young guards. They need more PT to develop and for us to see what they can do. The Jose experience is over.

I agree with this. Am optimistic this is fixable. Jose is such a puzzle too. He has been playing dumb. A guy who can shoot like that, and hit FTs like that, should have enough sense that he needs to shoot more, and draw fouls more.

I just hope Phil doesn't overreact. I am not sold on any of this year's FA crop of guards being worth max money, especially Conley. We need an upgrade on talent and more importantly intelligence at the 2 guard

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

EXCELLENT POST!!! This is the most concise and clear explanation of what is going on with this team. It's not very complicated. If the guards are bad you simply can't win.

I have nothing against Jose but he just got old and can't get the job done. None of our other guards are quality NBA guards either. When our guards were at least playing halfway decent this team could win some games or at least stay competitive! If the guards are gonna suck like this we have no chance. I'm pretty sure Phil knows this. We can expect he'll use every bit of cap to bring in better guards this summer.

For now I hope Rambis shuts Jose down and just plays the young guards. They need more PT to develop and for us to see what they can do. The Jose experience is over.

+1

Time for Grant/Gallo/Jimmer and ????. Calderon is a spot up shooter now. AA is a one-dimensional post up player now.

I am really not liking AA's attitude on the court either.

KP and Melo are working to hard to get their shots.

I mean LOWRY and Derozan KILLED them last night and it was easy for them. Really easy.

blkexec wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You need to go a little deeper. Calderon didn't force his way to NY, like Melo did. Same with all the other players you mentioned. Phil Jackson and Dolan are the problems. Phil's lack of experience has us taking 1 step forward and 5 steps backward, since the day he arrived.

And I don't think everybody hated Dantoni's system, but nobody thought his system can win in the playoffs.

GS, Lakers, Bulls.....All these team is showing you that it's not about the system......It's the talent running the system.

And usually an offensive system is needed for roll players. It gives them a roll to play. Superstars will do what they want to do, regardless of the system. Melo for example, when it's time for him to score, he will do whatever he can, which is ISO ball. Steph Curry isn't running a system, he's just killing. But the roll players around are running a system. Curry and most star players use their instincts.

It's a race between Phil increasing his learning curve and if / when we will get quality players. I never trusted Phil as a GM.....And this is why. Can't fault Calderon.....It was Phil who traded for him. Now it's killing us! Same reason why we only won 17 games that next year. Phil stripped it down and filled up with his players. Well, so far his players aren't combining well.

They really need to change the FA and draft timing. I believe if Phil knew he was drafting KP, he wouldn't have filled the roster with Forwards.....but rather dynamic guards play. And Aflalo is not a dynamic guard.

Good post blkexec! Phil kinda phucked us. Left us with a glut of seldom used forward/centers but no serviceable back court. Hurts seeing this, especially in a guard-centric league.

Can Afflalo even dunk? Seems like the least athletic 6'5 shooting guard in history...

blkexec wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You need to go a little deeper. Calderon didn't force his way to NY, like Melo did. Same with all the other players you mentioned. Phil Jackson and Dolan are the problems. Phil's lack of experience has us taking 1 step forward and 5 steps backward, since the day he arrived.

And I don't think everybody hated Dantoni's system, but nobody thought his system can win in the playoffs.

GS, Lakers, Bulls.....All these team is showing you that it's not about the system......It's the talent running the system.

And usually an offensive system is needed for roll players. It gives them a roll to play. Superstars will do what they want to do, regardless of the system. Melo for example, when it's time for him to score, he will do whatever he can, which is ISO ball. Steph Curry isn't running a system, he's just killing. But the roll players around are running a system. Curry and most star players use their instincts.

It's a race between Phil increasing his learning curve and if / when we will get quality players. I never trusted Phil as a GM.....And this is why. Can't fault Calderon.....It was Phil who traded for him. Now it's killing us! Same reason why we only won 17 games that next year. Phil stripped it down and filled up with his players. Well, so far his players aren't combining well.

They really need to change the FA and draft timing. I believe if Phil knew he was drafting KP, he wouldn't have filled the roster with Forwards.....but rather dynamic guard play. And Aflalo is not a dynamic guard.

ChuckBuck wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Ive never been impressed by the triangle to be honest. The reason Phil had success with it because he has Jordan, Kobe,and Shaq(3 of the greatest players in our generation along with Lebron} Basically those guys could have won in ANY system.

Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Gasol the list goes on...

With great players you can make any system look good. The only system that made fringe players look good is the Dumbtoni Spread PnR 7 SSOL that San Antonio and Golden State adopted. Duhon, Jeremy Lin, and Kendall Marshall looked like superstars!

If that was the case then everyone in the NBA would be running it. And there would be a lot more stud PGs in the NBA. MDA would also still be a headcoach and would have had more longevity with the Suns then just the Nash yrs.

We are correct about players making the system. Just like Nash taking SSOL to levels that Marbury or any other PG hasn't. What does matter are players skill sets toward the system. If you ran SSOL but had no bigz that can shoot then you will struggle. With the Knicks and the tri we need more forwards and bigs that can create. And better guard play.

Vmart wrote:The triangle works but you need the best player in the league.

With the best player in the league, all of the geographical shapes should work.

Triangles, Circles, Squares......

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst sorting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You just proved our point though. Players make the system, not the other way around.

Exactly, if you don't have the players to excel in the system, why are you shoving down their throat to no avail.

Every well prepared team will defend us with their eyes close, they make adjustments, which is why we lose leads.

What are you even talking about?

So should we just allow the guys to play free like they are playing pick up ball at the ymca? You don't make any sense. This is organized basketball. No Matter what there's going to be organization.

You wanna do more pick and rolls right? You wanna be just like Golden state right? The game is evolving right? Give it a break. You have no clue what you ate looking at

dude you contradict yourself and sound like an idiot(general speaking) when you say afflalo sucks, yet im going to keep running the same play for him even though he fails 70% of the time, and the defense has stopped it for the most part.

So a real coach would think, man these guys can't execute the game plan, they are confused, lack creativity, speed, and don't have the IQ needed, no energy, don't cut hard, and are out of their comfort zone, I need to make changes to fit this roster.

A bad coach would stay with the program and try is damn hardest to squeeze that triangle into a circle despite so many negatives. If rambis was to scrap the triangle for the most part and build on the players strength, and getting success, would phil looked to replace him..fck no, same with fisher.

The players have no energy, they don't seem interested, or engaged for good portions of the game

knicks1248 wrote:So a real coach would think, man these guys can't execute the game plan, they are confused, lack creativity, speed, and don't have the IQ needed, no energy, don't cut hard, and are out of their comfort zone, I need to make changes to fit this roster.

A bad coach would stay with the program and try is damn hardest to squeeze that triangle into a circle despite so many negatives. If rambis was to scrap the triangle for the most part and build on the players strength, and getting success, would phil looked to replace him..fck no, same with fisher.

The players have no energy, they don't seem interested, or engaged for good portions of the game

^This. You nailed it, IMHO.

Chandler wrote:i may be in the minority, but at the moment i think our chief failing is our defense, not offense. We're not stopping anyone; we're not creating turnovers for easy baskets. Talking offense is sexy, and of course we can improve, but right now our problems are defense.

ON offense, I would love to have a 2 guard who was smart with the basketball and who could create for himself and others. AA is not that guy; he's a good bench player. He does not create for others, frankly doesn't try, and doesn't put himself in a position to help others either.

our problems roster is are fixable.

FTFY

NYKBocker wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/briancmahoney/status/701981527907966977

Every team knows what the other team is going to do. It's a matter of execution. Everybody knows what GS is going to do and yet they can't stop them. Everybody knows what SA will do and still a lot of teams have problems with them. Basketball...you select a system and stick with it. Triangle is not the problem. The problem is our guard play. We run the GS os SA system and our guards would still **** it up. Our strength is our starting frontline. We just need to get a backcourt to make this system work. Shved, Lin or any guard with similar skillset would have been great.

There are a few problems with that if what you are saying is right - and I agree with you -

1) Why are we running a system we don't have the personnel to run? Who does that. The problem is trying to run the Triangle with the personnel we have.

2) The larger problem - Phil brought in these players specifically because he thought they'd be good at running the Triangle. He handpicked Jose, Afflalo, Jerian, and Langston. And Sasha, too. They're terrible at it.

3) in spite of 1 and 2, we're still forcing ourselves to run the Triangle.

4) further - Phil will only consider coaching candidates who will run the Triangle. Which limits our options to two terrible coaches in Rambis and Shaw and one pie in the sky guy who might be good in Luke Walton.

5) Several free agent guards have already gone on record saying they don't want to come here and play in the Triangle.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The problem is most of you don't know what a nba offense is.... you guys just want to see stretch 4s and point guards hitting threes. Face it.

When we had that system with Dantoni everyone cried about it. Now everyone is doing it, now you want to do it.

You guys deserve a bad team.

The problem is not the system. The problem is affalo is one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Calderón is the worst point guard in the league. Galloway is one of the worst guards in the league. The rest of the team are filled with redundant role players. If we had a top 30 point guard (yes our guards aren't even top 30)... and a top 30 shooting guard the Knicks would not be where they are. Basically place any backcourt from any team in place of ours and we will have at least 10 more wins...

You need to go a little deeper. Calderon didn't force his way to NY, like Melo did. Same with all the other players you mentioned. Phil Jackson and Dolan are the problems. Phil's lack of experience has us taking 1 step forward and 5 steps backward, since the day he arrived.

And I don't think everybody hated Dantoni's system, but nobody thought his system can win in the playoffs.

GS, Lakers, Bulls.....All these team is showing you that it's not about the system......It's the talent running the system.

And usually an offensive system is needed for roll players. It gives them a roll to play. Superstars will do what they want to do, regardless of the system. Melo for example, when it's time for him to score, he will do whatever he can, which is ISO ball. Steph Curry isn't running a system, he's just killing. But the roll players around are running a system. Curry and most star players use their instincts.

It's a race between Phil increasing his learning curve and if / when we will get quality players. I never trusted Phil as a GM.....And this is why. Can't fault Calderon.....It was Phil who traded for him. Now it's killing us! Same reason why we only won 17 games that next year. Phil stripped it down and filled up with his players. Well, so far his players aren't combining well.

They really need to change the FA and draft timing. I believe if Phil knew he was drafting KP, he wouldn't have filled the roster with Forwards.....but rather dynamic guard play. And Aflalo is not a dynamic guard.

Why do guys continually put that on Melo? Melo forced his way out of Denver. That is a fact. The Knicks overpaying has NOTHING to do with Melo.

If Melo really wanted to win a championship in NY, he would've waited until free agency, so that the Knicks didn't have to mortgage their future draft picks and assets. Melo wanted NY and his money.....And he got both. So Melo out of all people should understand why we are in the state we are in....Lebron had a plan to bring a championship to Miami. Melo wasn't thinking championship. Wade took a pay cut with a plan to win a championship. Melo was thinking about getting the most money from Dolan. Lebron is a complete player who has the green light to ask for any amount of money he chooses. Melo is not a complete player.

Yes, Melo holds some of the blame....But as I stated, Dolan is the common denominator out of all of this. And bringing Phil along just helps Dolan shoulder the blame.