crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remaining years of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

How did Dolan screw us exactly?

If you're claiming Melo is injured all the time and damaged goods, he'd be hard to trade - which he clearly isn't because Cleveland wanted him.

If you're claiming it's because of the no trade, realize that a player of Melo's stature essentially has a no-trade anyway. No team is going to take a star of his measure if he doesn't want to go there in a trade. Name a time a star of Melo's level was traded without it being something he wanted and was heavily involved in.

Dolan used a 1/3 of the cap to resign Melo when clearly he was breaking down from all the mileage. At worst Dolan signed off on the deal if you want to blame Phil which I don't because I remember his comments about Melo's free agency very vividly as well as his recent comments about the NTC. We did the same thing with H20, Mcdyess & Amare. This is par for the course if you are a Knick fan

Melo's salary next season is $24M. The cap is $92M. That's not 1/3. Season after that the cap is at least $108M and max guys in the league will be making $35M+

Melo is a hall of fame player. He's a top 20 player in the league. He's well worth the money.

Watch some of the players that get signed this summer and tell me Melo is still overpaid.

You're saying a guy who had 33pt and 13rebs in his last game is breaking down... okay.

Oh but that sets us back... what was it Guns? 5-10 year? Surprised it wasn't 15-20.

These guys are like grumpy old men yelling for Melo to get off their lawn

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remaining years of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

How did Dolan screw us exactly?

If you're claiming Melo is injured all the time and damaged goods, he'd be hard to trade - which he clearly isn't because Cleveland wanted him.

If you're claiming it's because of the no trade, realize that a player of Melo's stature essentially has a no-trade anyway. No team is going to take a star of his measure if he doesn't want to go there in a trade. Name a time a star of Melo's level was traded without it being something he wanted and was heavily involved in.

Dolan used a 1/3 of the cap to resign Melo when clearly he was breaking down from all the mileage. At worst Dolan signed off on the deal if you want to blame Phil which I don't because I remember his comments about Melo's free agency very vividly as well as his recent comments about the NTC. We did the same thing with H20, Mcdyess & Amare. This is par for the course if you are a Knick fan

Melo's salary next season is $24M. The cap is $92M. That's not 1/3. Season after that the cap is at least $108M and max guys in the league will be making $35M+

Melo is a hall of fame player. He's a top 20 player in the league. He's well worth the money.

Watch some of the players that get signed this summer and tell me Melo is still overpaid.

You're saying a guy who had 33pt and 13rebs in his last game is breaking down... okay.

this is anti-Melo math you are dealing with. You know... like his salary is always 40% more than actual. When he has a bad shooting game you add 10 missed shot to his stat line... that sort of thing. See, now that Melo's deal is actually quite cap friendly with 3 remaining years and soon less than 1/4 of the cap.

Oh but that sets us back... what was it Guns? 5-10 year? Surprised it wasn't 15-20.

These guys are like grumpy old men yelling for Melo to get off their lawn

a WS48 of .120 is not even close to the production that we need to justify his salary.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remaining years of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

How did Dolan screw us exactly?

If you're claiming Melo is injured all the time and damaged goods, he'd be hard to trade - which he clearly isn't because Cleveland wanted him.

If you're claiming it's because of the no trade, realize that a player of Melo's stature essentially has a no-trade anyway. No team is going to take a star of his measure if he doesn't want to go there in a trade. Name a time a star of Melo's level was traded without it being something he wanted and was heavily involved in.

Dolan used a 1/3 of the cap to resign Melo when clearly he was breaking down from all the mileage. At worst Dolan signed off on the deal if you want to blame Phil which I don't because I remember his comments about Melo's free agency very vividly as well as his recent comments about the NTC. We did the same thing with H20, Mcdyess & Amare. This is par for the course if you are a Knick fan

Melo's salary next season is $24M. The cap is $92M. That's not 1/3. Season after that the cap is at least $108M and max guys in the league will be making $35M+

Melo is a hall of fame player. He's a top 20 player in the league. He's well worth the money.

Watch some of the players that get signed this summer and tell me Melo is still overpaid.

You're saying a guy who had 33pt and 13rebs in his last game is breaking down... okay.

this is anti-Melo math you are dealing with. You know... like his salary is always 40% more than actual. When he has a bad shooting game you add 10 missed shot to his stat line... that sort of thing. See, now that Melo's deal is actually quite cap friendly with 3 remaining years and soon less than 1/4 of the cap.

Oh but that sets us back... what was it Guns? 5-10 year? Surprised it wasn't 15-20.

These guys are like grumpy old men yelling for Melo to get off their lawn

a WS48 of .120 is not even close to the production that we need to justify his salary.

They are 0-7 when he sits. They had gone 5-1 with the loss by 1 to the spurs in San Antonio and Melo had shot 51 % from the field for that stretch. He appeared to finally have gotten his shot back before the ankle/ ref incident. Things were going well and Dad Melo with his shot back was displaying the all around game guys that hate err hold him to a higher standard were calling for. Maybe you dont play him 49 minutes his first game back. Maybe you don't play him 43 the next game. Nah! It has to be his fault somehow.

Crush you're making too much sense! The funny thing is that there are so few great players in the NBA and because of that VERY FEW teams have a legit shot to win the Title. In fact there are gonna be a precious few Free Agents that we could try to get that would push this team up to contender status. If you get rid of MELO which of these very few Elite players would come here???

In truth there are no quick fix, sure thing free agents that are just waiting out there for the Knicks to grab. This team simply MUST play well to close out this season or we have no chance at all to get an Elite talent thru free agency. Like it or not MELO has to be a big part of it.

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remainder of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

Funny how Melo isn't worth his contract or worth missing a few games here and there but EVERY single team in the league besides the Spurs and Warriors would trade for him today if they could........these GM's that are lifetime basketball people just aren't as smart as us fans on message boards.....SMDH.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remaining years of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

How did Dolan screw us exactly?

If you're claiming Melo is injured all the time and damaged goods, he'd be hard to trade - which he clearly isn't because Cleveland wanted him.

If you're claiming it's because of the no trade, realize that a player of Melo's stature essentially has a no-trade anyway. No team is going to take a star of his measure if he doesn't want to go there in a trade. Name a time a star of Melo's level was traded without it being something he wanted and was heavily involved in.

Dolan used a 1/3 of the cap to resign Melo when clearly he was breaking down from all the mileage. At worst Dolan signed off on the deal if you want to blame Phil which I don't because I remember his comments about Melo's free agency very vividly as well as his recent comments about the NTC. We did the same thing with H20, Mcdyess & Amare. This is par for the course if you are a Knick fan

Melo's salary next season is $24M. The cap is $92M. That's not 1/3. Season after that the cap is at least $108M and max guys in the league will be making $35M+

Melo is a hall of fame player. He's a top 20 player in the league. He's well worth the money.

Watch some of the players that get signed this summer and tell me Melo is still overpaid.

You're saying a guy who had 33pt and 13rebs in his last game is breaking down... okay.

this is anti-Melo math you are dealing with. You know... like his salary is always 40% more than actual. When he has a bad shooting game you add 10 missed shot to his stat line... that sort of thing. See, now that Melo's deal is actually quite cap friendly with 3 remaining years and soon less than 1/4 of the cap.

Oh but that sets us back... what was it Guns? 5-10 year? Surprised it wasn't 15-20.

These guys are like grumpy old men yelling for Melo to get off their lawn

a WS48 of .120 is not even close to the production that we need to justify his salary.

They are 0-7 when he sits. They had gone 5-1 with the loss by 1 to the spurs in San Antonio and Melo had shot 51 % from the field for that stretch. He appeared to finally have gotten his shot back before the ankle/ ref incident. Things were going well and Dad Melo with his shot back was displaying the all around game guys that hate err hold him to a higher standard were calling for. Maybe you dont play him 49 minutes his first game back. Maybe you don't play him 43 the next game. Nah! It has to be his fault somehow.

Crush you're making too much sense! The funny thing is that there are so few great players in the NBA and because of that VERY FEW teams have a legit shot to win the Title. In fact there are gonna be a precious few Free Agents that we could try to get that would push this team up to contender status. If you get rid of MELO which of these very few Elite players would come here???

In truth there are no quick fix, sure thing free agents that are just waiting out there for the Knicks to grab. This team simply MUST play well to close out this season or we have no chance at all to get an Elite talent thru free agency. Like it or not MELO has to be a big part of it.

Exactly. We need Melo if we have any chance at getting a 3rd big name player to come here. Without Melo we're much worse off than we are with him. You guys need to stop forgetting or just glossing over the fact that we are a team in a rebuild and a rebuild needs time. Two years at most we'll be a top team in the east and the league but without Melo it will be much longer than that. I'll wait the two years and when Melo's contract is done we'll have KP and whoever else that we get in these next two years to keep going with.

dk7th wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remainder of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

Funny how Melo isn't worth his contract or worth missing a few games here and there but EVERY single team in the league besides the Spurs and Warriors would trade for him today if they could........these GM's that are lifetime basketball people just aren't as smart as us fans on message boards.....SMDH.

sooooo...... outside of melo's no trade clause what would stop them?

Not having the right assets? Not having the right situation. Two teams that are one piece away from being real championship contenders - Cavs and Clippers - would trade for Melo in a heart beat. I guarantee it. Washington and Chicago would probably also do it and it'd make them close to real contenders, which they are not now.

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remaining years of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

How did Dolan screw us exactly?

If you're claiming Melo is injured all the time and damaged goods, he'd be hard to trade - which he clearly isn't because Cleveland wanted him.

If you're claiming it's because of the no trade, realize that a player of Melo's stature essentially has a no-trade anyway. No team is going to take a star of his measure if he doesn't want to go there in a trade. Name a time a star of Melo's level was traded without it being something he wanted and was heavily involved in.

i am trying to imagine the conversation phil jackson would have had with melo about any trade scenario that would require melo's consent. seems to me that that conversation woild have ben a fool's errand and a lose-lose for several reasons.

i invite anyone here to put himself in phil jackson's shoes and tell me just how that conversation goes.

Melo is the level of star that no team is going to trade for him unless he's on board with the move. Because he will become one of the faces of whatever franchise he goes to. Any team would want to be sure he'd want to be there. Because he'd be a huge part of the team's marketing and sales pitch, as well as their on court play.

I'm sure Phil has already sat down with Melo several times to talk about the Knicks process and whether it's better for Melo to stay or go. They definitely talked last January when Shump and JR were traded. They talked last summer. Melo was in a great frame of mind to start the season. I think he's frustrated with how the past 12 games have gone. If that frustration continues the rest of the season - I'm sure they will talk again this summer if it is time to move on.

But what some of y'all don't seem to remember is that this is a business. Melo is a franchise player - his on court play is definitely declining, though I'd say still top 20 in the league. But he's the guy you put on billboards, who sells tickets, who puts fans in seats, who people tune in to watch on TV. Knicks lucked into another guy who can become that in KP, and I think it is probably good for him to see how Melo carries himself both on the court and off. And I think being competitive is just as important for KP's development as anything else. There's a human element to building a team, a culture. Knicks are 0-7 without Melo this season. You really think KP would be happy and playing as well if the Knicks were 8-40 with no Melo? It's demoralizing to lose like that. Knicks have been competitive, even in losses. With a few more pieces they can be a decent playoffs team. 5 years from now when KP is hopefully a perennial all-star, having had some early success will be an invaluable part of the puzzle for him. I don't get why so many of the "hand the keys to KP" crowd has such a hard time with this concept. It seems pretty straight forward to me.

A reasonable expectation for the season was 35 wins, which we can still reach. It seems like a failure because we were on pace for 40+ at the 44 game mark. However this team was not built with 2 superstars. It has one all-star and 1 very good rookie. When the all-star can't go, it screws up our ability to win games. We may play well, but we can't play 48 minutes of good basketball. Would have always had taken Melo to play at a top 5/MVP level to get this team into the playoffs, which he clearly was doing for about 20 games, then reality hit. Melo's 30+, he's not in his physical peak and can not carry a team throughout the season. Hence the importance of Porzingis. KP needs to become an all-star ASAP. I know he needs time, but if this is going to work, Porzingis has to come back next season with the ability to give the team 20-22 points a night. We'd also be smart if we got rid of Afflalo and replaced him with a more consistent outside shooter.

arkrud wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remaining years of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

How did Dolan screw us exactly?

If you're claiming Melo is injured all the time and damaged goods, he'd be hard to trade - which he clearly isn't because Cleveland wanted him.

If you're claiming it's because of the no trade, realize that a player of Melo's stature essentially has a no-trade anyway. No team is going to take a star of his measure if he doesn't want to go there in a trade. Name a time a star of Melo's level was traded without it being something he wanted and was heavily involved in.

i am trying to imagine the conversation phil jackson would have had with melo about any trade scenario that would require melo's consent. seems to me that that conversation woild have ben a fool's errand and a lose-lose for several reasons.

i invite anyone here to put himself in phil jackson's shoes and tell me just how that conversation goes.

This conversation is only possible if initiated by Melo.
You cannot get blood from the stone.
Melo is here to make NY news-worthy and support team merchandise and tickets sales until KP will take over in his due time.
No question he worth the investments for the franchise and Dolan.
And this has nothing to do with winning.

You can do both! MELO and KP really only lack better guard play in order to win. There's no dog n pony show going on with the talent of those 2. Before MELO tripped on the ref this team was really coming together. So I see this as a very capable tandem that only needs a good 3rd addition to the top of the rotation and this could be a winning team.

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The optimism was before Melo's knee gave out again. You expect fans to be content with a guy swallowing up a 1/3 of the cap if consistently out of the lineup and either relegated to having his minutes cut or even worse on the IR for the remainder of his contract? Are we suppose to be happ Dolan screwed us again?

Funny how Melo isn't worth his contract or worth missing a few games here and there but EVERY single team in the league besides the Spurs and Warriors would trade for him today if they could........these GM's that are lifetime basketball people just aren't as smart as us fans on message boards.....SMDH.

Because Melo can actually help some of these teams win a ring but he rather be the highest paid big name player on the laughing stock Knicks