newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.

Briggs posts a Doc Rivers quote... that's the team that let him walk and sign a lower than MLE contract with the Kings. Then one year after the signing with the Kings they bring in Rondo. So yea.. he's the most underrated and best PG in the league... That his teams don't want.

Collison is the consummate bench player. In the right (smaller) doses he is great. Ask him to run a team and its a big mistake, or at least it has been with every team he's played on so far in the NBA. But don't ask me... I just woke up

DJMUSIC wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.

so why is he career backup? He's half a defender. Great on the ball because of his speed and quickness. The minute the opposing team is in the half court his defense goes from great to terrible, so you tell me where he stands.

Briggs posts a Doc Rivers quote... that's the team that let him walk and sign a lower than MLE contract with the Kings. Then one year after the signing with the Kings they bring in Rondo. So yea.. he's the most underrated and best PG in the league... That his teams don't want.

Collison is the consummate bench player. In the right (smaller) doses he is great. Ask him to run a team and its a big mistake, or at least it has been with every team he's played on so far in the NBA. But don't ask me... I just woke up

If Celts Isaaih Thomas is BETTER than Collison
what's the point ?

Collison will not help develop KP,
nor the passing virtues needed on Knicks to make overrall better team reaching playoffs this 2016 NBA season

I like the idea... but some perspective. This is a career backup who is pushed to the side every place he's played. He measured 6 feet with a 6'3 wingspan. This is a very small player by NBA standards, and not long at all to make up for it.

I find it strange that at age 28, Collison has not found a permanent place on a team, and I'm someone who likes him, and have thought about him being on the Knicks in the past.

If this was Grant's second year in the league and he was playing like he is...I might trade him for Collison, but not at this time.

fishmike wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.

so why is he career backup? He's half a defender. Great on the ball because of his speed and quickness. The minute the opposing team is in the half court his defense goes from great to terrible, so you tell me where he stands.

Briggs posts a Doc Rivers quote... that's the team that let him walk and sign a lower than MLE contract with the Kings. Then one year after the signing with the Kings they bring in Rondo. So yea.. he's the most underrated and best PG in the league... That his teams don't want.

Collison is the consummate bench player. In the right (smaller) doses he is great. Ask him to run a team and its a big mistake, or at least it has been with every team he's played on so far in the NBA. But don't ask me... I just woke up

If Celts Isaaih Thomas is BETTER than Collison
what's the point ?

Collison will not help develop KP,
nor the passing virtues needed on Knicks to make overrall better team reaching playoffs this 2016 NBA season

Poor man's Isiah Thomas is a good compare. And what kind of defender is Isiah? Great on the ball, tons of steals, and gets beat in the halfcourt by bigger guards.

I like the idea... but some perspective. This is a career backup who is pushed to the side every place he's played. He measured 6 feet with a 6'3 wingspan. This is a very small player by NBA standards, and not long at all to make up for it.

Agree w/Fish 150%

Collison is good but a REAL Backup solid PG

Thomas on Celts has other players on team, such as M.Smart, Turner and also Avery Bradley all play same position PG
Thomas has a wonderful season with good developing cast, credit Coach B.Stephens (Do u hear that DFisher, "A REAL COACH DAMN_IT!"

But though Thomas would improve Knicks, he more suited as starter PG than Darren Collison ever can be in NY
Collison should BE no target for our ballclub, he'd have same issues every other guy comes here & had at PG
cause he's a role PG.

Forget Collison,
Unless the Knicks get a JKidd, CP3 type or some star PG
its not worth the discussion putting Collison here for a Band-aid fix at most, This man isn't answer for PG NOT in NewYork

Nope, nah, No no NO

DJMUSIC wrote:

fishmike wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

Wow he's a great defender, he can shoot the 3 ball at an effective clip, he's as fast as anyone as anyone in the league and can finish at the hoop and he's a solid passer that doesn't turn the ball over and yet...........he's a career back up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm SMDH. I like him and would love to have him but he's not what you say he is.

so why is he career backup? He's half a defender. Great on the ball because of his speed and quickness. The minute the opposing team is in the half court his defense goes from great to terrible, so you tell me where he stands.

Briggs posts a Doc Rivers quote... that's the team that let him walk and sign a lower than MLE contract with the Kings. Then one year after the signing with the Kings they bring in Rondo. So yea.. he's the most underrated and best PG in the league... That his teams don't want.

Collison is the consummate bench player. In the right (smaller) doses he is great. Ask him to run a team and its a big mistake, or at least it has been with every team he's played on so far in the NBA. But don't ask me... I just woke up

If Celts Isaaih Thomas is BETTER than Collison
what's the point ?

Collison will not help develop KP,
nor the passing virtues needed on Knicks to make overrall better team reaching playoffs this 2016 NBA season

Poor man's Isiah Thomas is a good compare. And what kind of defender is Isiah? Great on the ball, tons of steals, and gets beat in the halfcourt by bigger guards.

I like the idea... but some perspective. This is a career backup who is pushed to the side every place he's played. He measured 6 feet with a 6'3 wingspan. This is a very small player by NBA standards, and not long at all to make up for it.

Agree w/Fish 150%

Collison is good but a REAL Backup solid PG

Thomas on Celts has other players on team, such as M.Smart, Turner and also Avery Bradley all play same position PG
Thomas has a wonderful season with good developing cast, credit Coach B.Stephens (Do u hear that DFisher, "A REAL COACH DAMN_IT!"

But though Thomas would improve Knicks, he more suited as starter PG than Darren Collison ever can be in NY
Collison should BE no target for our ballclub, he'd have same issues every other guy comes here & had at PG
cause he's a role PG.

Forget Collison,
Unless the Knicks get a JKidd, CP3 type or some star PG
its not worth the discussion putting Collison here for a Band-aid fix at most, This man isn't answer for PG NOT in NewYork

Nope, nah, No no NO

I don't know about that. Jose, Jerian, Gallo etc are so bad for what we need that it makes you think we need a superstar, when really just a league avg PG would be an improvement.

Either a Darren Collison, Jeff Teague or Mike Conley would be a MASSIVE improvements at PG for this team. IMO Tony Wroten would be a huge improvement and he's not even in the league right now. Right now Ty Lawson and DJ Augustin are worse than Jose!

BRIGGS wrote:This team would be much better with Darren Collison than Jose Calderon--I mean its not close. He wouldve made us play faster--if anyone thinks that Collison wouldnt have improved our defense--they are nuts. Last year when he got the start for Sacramento he was near all star numbers. His per minute production is very high and efficient. He would fit in here nicely and effectively--no doubt about that. I hate to break it to anyone but there are no 6-5 PGs on any winning teams. They are mostly 6-2 and down.

RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
21	Dennis Schroder, ATL	53	20.7	.504	26.3	12.0	27.0	2.2	12.7	7.5	16.43	89.0	3.0
22	Ish Smith, NO/PHI	48	26.5	.450	30.6	9.7	22.2	2.2	12.9	7.4	16.07	96.2	3.2
23	Darren Collison, SAC	48	28.2	.581	22.7	10.1	19.8	1.5	6.7	4.1	15.60	93.1	3.1
24	Trey Burke, UTAH	49	23.6	.512	16.7	8.2	24.4	1.7	8.3	5.0	15.37	75.6	2.5
25	Patty Mills, SA	        53	20.2	.555	23.4	7.9	18.6	1.8	9.0	5.6	15.36	69.9	2.3
26	Brandon Knight, PHX	42	36.3	.523	18.7	12.6	25.9	1.9	9.7	5.7	15.22	96.0	3.2
27	Jarrett Jack, BKN	32	32.1	.505	32.0	12.8	22.9	1.0	14.0	7.4	14.90	59.7	2.0
28	Toney Douglas, NO	32	15.2	.539	22.9	7.5	17.6	2.0	6.8	4.3	14.76	27.3	0.9
29	Zach LaVine, MIN	54	24.4	.521	18.5	10.7	25.2	1.9	12.0	7.0	14.75	73.6	2.5
30	T.J. McConnell, PHI	53	20.9	.514	37.2	15.7	18.0	3.1	16.3	9.6	14.65	60.4	2.0
RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
        M Carter-Williams, MIL	49	30.4	.499	27.6	14.4	21.7	3.6	15.4	9.5	14.65	81.0	2.7
32	Deron Williams, DAL	46	32.1	.525	25.4	10.9	22.2	1.0	9.0	5.0	14.58	78.8	2.6
33	Jeremy Lin, CHA	        50	26.9	.536	19.9	11.4	21.3	2.4	11.0	6.6	14.54	71.0	2.4
34	Jordan Clarkson, LAL	53	32.3	.520	13.3	9.6	21.5	3.7	9.3	6.4	14.52	90.1	3.0
35	Brian Roberts, CHA	30	11.1	.552	20.5	8.6	19.2	1.3	8.4	4.8	14.21	16.0	0.5
36	Devin Harris, DAL	40	19.6	.559	21.5	9.9	17.1	1.8	10.0	5.9	14.10	36.3	1.2
37	Gary Neal, WSH	        40	20.2	.558	11.1	6.8	19.1	1.5	10.5	5.9	13.86	34.4	1.1
38	Shaun Livingston, GS	49	19.3	.585	30.7	9.9	14.7	3.3	6.8	5.1	13.84	40.1	1.3
39	George Hill, IND	46	35.2	.566	20.1	9.1	15.7	2.3	9.8	6.0	13.76	66.7	2.2
40	Goran Dragic, MIA	44	32.3	.531	27.4	12.8	20.0	2.2	9.4	5.9	13.62	55.5	1.8
RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
41	Elfrid Payton, ORL	48	29.9	.472	29.1	12.1	21.8	3.6	9.8	6.7	13.59	55.4	1.8
42	Brandon Jennings, DET	23	18.1	.495	27.9	8.8	19.6	1.2	11.2	6.0	13.49	15.4	0.5
43	Shane Larkin, BKN	50	20.6	.515	31.9	14.6	18.7	1.3	11.2	6.2	13.38	36.7	1.2
44	J.J. Barea, DAL	        49	21.9	.509	26.4	10.2	22.5	1.6	7.8	4.7	13.33	37.3	1.2
45	Donald Sloan, BKN	34	19.9	.535	36.9	13.1	16.9	2.1	13.8	7.9	13.23	22.5	0.8
46	D'Angelo Russell, LAL	53	27.1	.502	18.6	13.5	23.0	2.2	12.3	7.1	13.22	47.4	1.6
47	Avery Bradley, BOS	50	33.1	.537	12.0	8.5	19.0	1.9	6.7	4.3	13.14	52.9	1.8
        Cory Joseph, TOR	52	25.8	.531	24.4	10.5	16.8	2.1	9.5	5.8	13.14	42.7	1.4
49	Matt Dellavedova, CLE	46	26.3	.548	35.0	11.1	16.6	2.5	8.1	5.3	13.11	38.2	1.3
50	Jose Calderon, NY	51	27.6	.584	34.9	10.1	13.1	1.3	10.9	6.2	13.02	42.5	1.4

He's a poor man's Ray Felton (to be fair, before Ray got fat).

the only given is he would improve our transition defense which is pretty bad.

BRIGGS wrote:Sacremento needs change. Collison is probably the best PG in the NBA for cash to production. Always under rated but always over-performs. He would change the dynamic of the team by himself. His 5mm contract next year ALLOWS us to look for a Batum or a Derozan without having to beg another PG to come here for 3X the money??? Collison is just as good as Conley or BETTER!! but for 1/3 the price.

As I mentioned in a post before--Id give them Grant and whatever choice of two other players--perhaps a threeway??? but Darren Collison makes the MOST sense at our trade deadline--he would give the most bang for the buck AND he does not disrupt free agency as he is signed.

Collision would help us out.

He's not a pure point and he's not creative but he would boost our team speed, help our PG defense and he's a solid shooter.

I don't know that I'd give up in Grant for Collison though - that's giving up really quick on Grant.

BigDaddyG wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:7th yr in the NBA...5 teams...never more than two years on any one team.

I find it strange that at age 28, Collison has not found a permanent place on a team, and I'm someone who likes him, and have thought about him being on the Knicks in the past.

If this was Grant's second year in the league and he was playing like he is...I might trade him for Collison, but not at this time.

I'd rather take a chance on DJ Augustine, who probably costs far less and is in the last year of his contract. The fact that Collision has an extra year on his deal makes him less appealing. Yeah, he's more offensive minded than Calderon, but he's not as good as a playmaker. Plus, he does not of his damage in the pick and roll. It doesn't make sense to give up assets for a mediocre point guard. Is Collision going to lead us to playoff success? Probably not. There's no need to make change for the sake of change.