fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

The Triangle normally is good for defense in that you usually have good floor balance when run right and you can get back on D.

It's still too soon to know how Rambis is gonna do. I did like some of the things we saw in his 1st game but it's sooooooo early in the process of Rambis making his changes. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does the rest of the way.

Rambis is like a son to Phil and I'm sure he's gonna want to give him the job permanently. Only way I see Phil not giving him the job is massive failure. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Phil would prefer to keep Rambis over another coach search, even if Thibs is ready and waiting. We'll see.

Floor balance is like the first 5% of defense. There's so much more that goes into it. I don't know that I trust Rambis to coach D well. If he's good, that's great.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

The Triangle normally is good for defense in that you usually have good floor balance when run right and you can get back on D.

It's still too soon to know how Rambis is gonna do. I did like some of the things we saw in his 1st game but it's sooooooo early in the process of Rambis making his changes. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does the rest of the way.

Rambis is like a son to Phil and I'm sure he's gonna want to give him the job permanently. Only way I see Phil not giving him the job is massive failure. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Phil would prefer to keep Rambis over another coach search, even if Thibs is ready and waiting. We'll see.

Floor balance is like the first 5% of defense. There's so much more that goes into it. I don't know that I trust Rambis to coach D well. If he's good, that's great.

I've posted this before but Rambis was Phil's defensive coach starting in 2008 and they improved and won 2 Titles.

Crzy... Carlisle was run out of Detroit after winning seasons and the minute Larry Brown took over they went to the next level w/ b2b finals. I agree he's a great coach, but much like Tom Coughlin before he could win big he needed to scale back his personality some. I think Thibs needs some of that... just an observation. I would applaud a Thibs hiring, but I don't think he's in the right click.

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

The Triangle normally is good for defense in that you usually have good floor balance when run right and you can get back on D.

It's still too soon to know how Rambis is gonna do. I did like some of the things we saw in his 1st game but it's sooooooo early in the process of Rambis making his changes. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does the rest of the way.

Rambis is like a son to Phil and I'm sure he's gonna want to give him the job permanently. Only way I see Phil not giving him the job is massive failure. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Phil would prefer to keep Rambis over another coach search, even if Thibs is ready and waiting. We'll see.

Floor balance is like the first 5% of defense. There's so much more that goes into it. I don't know that I trust Rambis to coach D well. If he's good, that's great.

I've posted this before but Rambis was Phil's defensive coach starting in 2008 and they improved and won 2 Titles.

he might be a great hoops guy. Listening to him talk I wonder if he can push the buttons on NBA players.

Crzy... Carlisle was run out of Detroit after winning seasons and the minute Larry Brown took over they went to the next level w/ b2b finals. I agree he's a great coach, but much like Tom Coughlin before he could win big he needed to scale back his personality some. I think Thibs needs some of that... just an observation. I would applaud a Thibs hiring, but I don't think he's in the right click.

Welllllll, not sure I'd say it was Larry Brown - Detroit won the championship because they made a trade to get Rasheed Wallace that put them over the top. Sheed took them to another level. That Detroit team was very good. Sheed made them special. They got Sheed at the trade deadline and immediately started beating teams like 94-68 every single night. I know I watched closely, because I had hoped the Knicks could get Sheed that season to go with Marbury.

Carlisle did have to learn some things, but his first season in Indiana they won 61 games - that team was set to challenge Detroit and make some Finals appearances before Artest lost his mind in the Palace brawl.

But, yes, Thibs would have to make some changes and concessions, too. You'd think that Phil could help him on that front if they were willing to work together.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Phil at least interviews Thibs, I have total and complete faith the marriage of Phil and Thibs can get it done.

If he totally bypasses Thibs and just interviews the likes of Walton and Shaw or other unproven Triangle disciples, I think I'm off the Phil triangle train. He'll be in LA's front office with Jeanie in no time flat.

This is sort of where I'm at. If he doesn't even consider Thibs, he needs to go.

Phil says he wants a system coach - Thibs is a system coach. Not the same exact system, but he ran Triangle sets in some of what Chicago did.

I don't think Phil has any problem with Thibs. He just wants to give Rambis a shot and didn't want to suggest that he's actively looking for another head coach right this moment while Rambis is trying to prove he's the man for the job. I believe Phil would sit with Thibs if Rambis is a disaster.

Rambis's coaching record is 54-146 for a .270 winning percentage in 200 games coached.

Thibodeau's coaching record is 255-139 for .647 winning percentage in almost 400 games coached.

So basically if Rambis were to win his next 200 games in a row as a coach - he would not have as good a record as Thibodeau. Think about that for a second.

Slightly different situations, but one of the things touted about Phil's record is his winning percentage. So can he recognize a successful coach and see eye to eye. Hasn't Phil always emphasized defense? Thibs is one of the top defensive minds in the sport.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

The Triangle normally is good for defense in that you usually have good floor balance when run right and you can get back on D.

It's still too soon to know how Rambis is gonna do. I did like some of the things we saw in his 1st game but it's sooooooo early in the process of Rambis making his changes. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does the rest of the way.

Rambis is like a son to Phil and I'm sure he's gonna want to give him the job permanently. Only way I see Phil not giving him the job is massive failure. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Phil would prefer to keep Rambis over another coach search, even if Thibs is ready and waiting. We'll see.

Floor balance is like the first 5% of defense. There's so much more that goes into it. I don't know that I trust Rambis to coach D well. If he's good, that's great.

I've posted this before but Rambis was Phil's defensive coach starting in 2008 and they improved and won 2 Titles.

he might be a great hoops guy. Listening to him talk I wonder if he can push the buttons on NBA players.

Crzy... Carlisle was run out of Detroit after winning seasons and the minute Larry Brown took over they went to the next level w/ b2b finals. I agree he's a great coach, but much like Tom Coughlin before he could win big he needed to scale back his personality some. I think Thibs needs some of that... just an observation. I would applaud a Thibs hiring, but I don't think he's in the right click.

Welllllll, not sure I'd say it was Larry Brown - Detroit won the championship because they made a trade to get Rasheed Wallace that put them over the top. Sheed took them to another level. That Detroit team was very good. Sheed made them special. They got Sheed at the trade deadline and immediately started beating teams like 94-68 every single night. I know I watched closely, because I had hoped the Knicks could get Sheed that season to go with Marbury.

Carlisle did have to learn some things, but his first season in Indiana they won 61 games - that team was set to challenge Detroit and make some Finals appearances before Artest lost his mind in the Palace brawl.

But, yes, Thibs would have to make some changes and concessions, too. You'd think that Phil could help him on that front if they were willing to work together.

Agree the Sheed trade was big. I remember that well. He replaced the big white guy (Okur?) and they never looked back. I thought they played better under Larry but certainly Rick was huge there.

Time will tell.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

The Triangle normally is good for defense in that you usually have good floor balance when run right and you can get back on D.

It's still too soon to know how Rambis is gonna do. I did like some of the things we saw in his 1st game but it's sooooooo early in the process of Rambis making his changes. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does the rest of the way.

Rambis is like a son to Phil and I'm sure he's gonna want to give him the job permanently. Only way I see Phil not giving him the job is massive failure. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Phil would prefer to keep Rambis over another coach search, even if Thibs is ready and waiting. We'll see.

Floor balance is like the first 5% of defense. There's so much more that goes into it. I don't know that I trust Rambis to coach D well. If he's good, that's great.

I've posted this before but Rambis was Phil's defensive coach starting in 2008 and they improved and won 2 Titles.

he might be a great hoops guy. Listening to him talk I wonder if he can push the buttons on NBA players.

Crzy... Carlisle was run out of Detroit after winning seasons and the minute Larry Brown took over they went to the next level w/ b2b finals. I agree he's a great coach, but much like Tom Coughlin before he could win big he needed to scale back his personality some. I think Thibs needs some of that... just an observation. I would applaud a Thibs hiring, but I don't think he's in the right click.

Welllllll, not sure I'd say it was Larry Brown - Detroit won the championship because they made a trade to get Rasheed Wallace that put them over the top. Sheed took them to another level. That Detroit team was very good. Sheed made them special. They got Sheed at the trade deadline and immediately started beating teams like 94-68 every single night. I know I watched closely, because I had hoped the Knicks could get Sheed that season to go with Marbury.

Carlisle did have to learn some things, but his first season in Indiana they won 61 games - that team was set to challenge Detroit and make some Finals appearances before Artest lost his mind in the Palace brawl.

But, yes, Thibs would have to make some changes and concessions, too. You'd think that Phil could help him on that front if they were willing to work together.

Which really makes us all wish we really knew what happened with Fisher. Shaq was talking about the Fisher/Phil thing and was surprised as he called Phil incredibly patient and will get the right mix. That is just another piece of info saying something must have been really bad for Phil to axe Fisher.

Agree the Sheed trade was big. I remember that well. He replaced the big white guy (Okur?) and they never looked back. I thought they played better under Larry but certainly Rick was huge there.

Time will tell.

The fact that Phil brought up the email thing seemed to be telling. Also the divide in 2 groups of coaches and the lack of communication on the 1 coach film review session with Phil seems like a big breaking point. You just can't have that

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:I chose stay the course.

I actually think Thibs is overrated. You are hoping he's the next Rick Carlisle. A guy who drove his players into the ground (Detroit) but learned some balance in his next stop (Dallas).

Thibs strikes me as pretty one dimensional, and leans too heavily on his guys. I cant blame his teams for losing to Lebron in the playoffs but he's had some very bad series in the playoffs. Maybe that is something Phil can help with, but I doubt he's in the mix.

I have no faith in Rambis. Dude seems like a block of wood.

Carlisle is a great coach who always seems to get his teams to overachieve - he won a championship in this league. He was great in Indiana, too, I think.

I think Thibs is certainly on the level of Carlisle. I just think Thibs would fit here - he's a mix of a Triangle guy and a hard-nosed Van Gundy / Riley defensive guy. It's the perfect mix of what Phil wants to do and what fits the tradition of the best teams in New York.

Does the Triangle include defensive principals? I didn't think it did.

I don't trust Rambis or really anyone on the list of Triangle Tree coaching.

I think Thibs would be a perfect fit here, but Phil and Dolan would have to check their massive egos for a second to even consider him, so it'll never happen. The guy is DYING to coach the Knicks. How many times have we EVER had a guy DYING to coach the Knicks?

The Triangle normally is good for defense in that you usually have good floor balance when run right and you can get back on D.

It's still too soon to know how Rambis is gonna do. I did like some of the things we saw in his 1st game but it's sooooooo early in the process of Rambis making his changes. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does the rest of the way.

Rambis is like a son to Phil and I'm sure he's gonna want to give him the job permanently. Only way I see Phil not giving him the job is massive failure. I could be wrong but I have a feeling Phil would prefer to keep Rambis over another coach search, even if Thibs is ready and waiting. We'll see.

Floor balance is like the first 5% of defense. There's so much more that goes into it. I don't know that I trust Rambis to coach D well. If he's good, that's great.

I've posted this before but Rambis was Phil's defensive coach starting in 2008 and they improved and won 2 Titles.

he might be a great hoops guy. Listening to him talk I wonder if he can push the buttons on NBA players.

Crzy... Carlisle was run out of Detroit after winning seasons and the minute Larry Brown took over they went to the next level w/ b2b finals. I agree he's a great coach, but much like Tom Coughlin before he could win big he needed to scale back his personality some. I think Thibs needs some of that... just an observation. I would applaud a Thibs hiring, but I don't think he's in the right click.

Welllllll, not sure I'd say it was Larry Brown - Detroit won the championship because they made a trade to get Rasheed Wallace that put them over the top. Sheed took them to another level. That Detroit team was very good. Sheed made them special. They got Sheed at the trade deadline and immediately started beating teams like 94-68 every single night. I know I watched closely, because I had hoped the Knicks could get Sheed that season to go with Marbury.

Carlisle did have to learn some things, but his first season in Indiana they won 61 games - that team was set to challenge Detroit and make some Finals appearances before Artest lost his mind in the Palace brawl.

But, yes, Thibs would have to make some changes and concessions, too. You'd think that Phil could help him on that front if they were willing to work together.

Which really makes us all wish we really knew what happened with Fisher. Shaq was talking about the Fisher/Phil thing and was surprised as he called Phil incredibly patient and will get the right mix. That is just another piece of info saying something must have been really bad for Phil to axe Fisher.

Agree the Sheed trade was big. I remember that well. He replaced the big white guy (Okur?) and they never looked back. I thought they played better under Larry but certainly Rick was huge there.

Time will tell.

The fact that Phil brought up the email thing seemed to be telling. Also the divide in 2 groups of coaches and the lack of communication on the 1 coach film review session with Phil seems like a big breaking point. You just can't have that

Yeah, it sounds like it was Fisher's OKC guys vs Phil's Triangle guys. Which makes me wonder what'll happen to those OKC assistants. They are highly regarded around the league from what I've heard.

I was happy when Phil arrived that it seemed like we'd finally have a GM/Pres and coach on the same page for once. Sad that Fisher wasn't up to that or on board with that.

I can see why Phil might worry Thibs would clash, too... but I just feel he's so far and away the best choice. Triangle experience, best defensive coach in the league

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:If Phil at least interviews Thibs, I have total and complete faith the marriage of Phil and Thibs can get it done.

If he totally bypasses Thibs and just interviews the likes of Walton and Shaw or other unproven Triangle disciples, I think I'm off the Phil triangle train. He'll be in LA's front office with Jeanie in no time flat.

This is sort of where I'm at. If he doesn't even consider Thibs, he needs to go.

Phil says he wants a system coach - Thibs is a system coach. Not the same exact system, but he ran Triangle sets in some of what Chicago did.

I don't think Phil has any problem with Thibs. He just wants to give Rambis a shot and didn't want to suggest that he's actively looking for another head coach right this moment while Rambis is trying to prove he's the man for the job. I believe Phil would sit with Thibs if Rambis is a disaster.

Rambis's coaching record is 54-146 for a .270 winning percentage in 200 games coached.

Thibodeau's coaching record is 255-139 for .647 winning percentage in almost 400 games coached.

So basically if Rambis were to win his next 200 games in a row as a coach - he would not have as good a record as Thibodeau. Think about that for a second.

Slightly different situations, but one of the things touted about Phil's record is his winning percentage. So can he recognize a successful coach and see eye to eye. Hasn't Phil always emphasized defense? Thibs is one of the top defensive minds in the sport.

There's no way you can compare the Bulls teams that Thibs had to the Minnesota teams that Rambis had. It's probably the biggest difference in teams that you could compare.

If you're gonna make that argument then what are we basing Phil's coaching success on? He coached 3 of the top 10 players of all time. Plus Pippen who might be top 20 all time. Plus Gasol who is a hall of famer. etc. Phil had better players than anyone. So do his wins not count?

there is some grey area that we can all consensus on though right? Rambis definitely had **** teams in Minny, that's a fact, and it's miles different situation that what Thibs had in Chicago. You can make the comparison but it'd be useless.

Right, Thibs had a much better roster for sure. But you can't totally discount performance. And we're talking about the experience of the coach.

And to be fair, Rambis's reputation in Minnesota was not a good coach who just had a bum roster. He had the reputation of being an absolutely terrible coach who played Ryan Gomes more minutes than Kevin Love and tried to force a roster of bad fits into the Triangle. Johny Flynn and Ricky Rubio running the Triangle. It was not good.

Now the next and most difficult leap is from being a good playoff team to being a legit Title Contender. I have no way of knowing if Rambis is capable of making that transition. I do think he's capable of being the coach of a good playoff team, mainly because I think most coaches are capable of that given the right talent.