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Knicks #1 Pick in 2017: What's it Worth . . . (?)
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Malcolm
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2/10/2016  11:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2016  11:17 PM
Malcolm wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:You know . . . I really don't get the fascination with draft picks beyond the top 5 or so.

I mean really: what are the numbers on this (?)

Does a number 6 or 7 or 10 overall pick amount to something special often enough . . . that you'd turned down a PROVEN starter (say: Teague, 27 years old with per of 17.0) in order to have the pick instead (?)

Come on, I can't see that (!)

Your statement is ironic because you're overlooking the value of draft picks past number 5, yet you are implying we trade a pick for Jeff Teague, who was the 19th pick.

Show me ALL the numbers . . . not just a coincidental one, please.

I can read what Teague's pick # was just as good as anyone else.

How many, for example, of these are as good as Jeff Teague (?):

2014:

6. Celtics Marcus Smart PG
7. Lakers Julius Randle PF
8. Kings Nik Stauskas SG
9. Hornets Noah Vonleh PF
10. 76ers Elfrid Payton PG
11. Nuggets Doug McDermott SF
12. Magic Dario Saric PF
13. Timberwolves Zach LaVine PG
14. Suns T.J. Warren SF
15. Hawks Adreian Payne PF
16. Bulls Jusuf Nurkic C
17. Celtics James Young SF
18. Suns Tyler Ennis PG
19. Bulls Gary Harris SG
20. Raptors Bruno Caboclo SF
21. Thunder Mitch McGary PF
22. Grizzlies Jordan Adams SG
23. Jazz Rodney Hood SG
24. Hornets Shabazz Napier PG
25. Rockets Clint Capela PF
26. Heat P.J. Hairston SG
27. Suns Bogdan Bogdanovic SG
28. Clippers C.J. Wilcox SG
29. Thunder Josh Huestis PF
30. Spurs Kyle Anderson PF

Bruno Caboclo (???)

PER of (-17.64) (Yes . . . that's MINUS 17.64).
AUTOADVERT
Allanfan20
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2/10/2016  11:30 PM
Malcolm wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:You know . . . I really don't get the fascination with draft picks beyond the top 5 or so.

I mean really: what are the numbers on this (?)

Does a number 6 or 7 or 10 overall pick amount to something special often enough . . . that you'd turned down a PROVEN starter (say: Teague, 27 years old with per of 17.0) in order to have the pick instead (?)

Come on, I can't see that (!)

Your statement is ironic because you're overlooking the value of draft picks past number 5, yet you are implying we trade a pick for Jeff Teague, who was the 19th pick.

Show me ALL the numbers . . . not just a coincidental one, please.

I can read what Teague's pick # was just as good as anyone else.

How many, for example, of these are as good as Jeff Teague (?):

2014:

6. Celtics Marcus Smart PG
7. Lakers Julius Randle PF
8. Kings Nik Stauskas SG
9. Hornets Noah Vonleh PF
10. 76ers Elfrid Payton PG
11. Nuggets Doug McDermott SF
12. Magic Dario Saric PF
13. Timberwolves Zach LaVine PG
14. Suns T.J. Warren SF
15. Hawks Adreian Payne PF
16. Bulls Jusuf Nurkic C
17. Celtics James Young SF
18. Suns Tyler Ennis PG
19. Bulls Gary Harris SG
20. Raptors Bruno Caboclo SF
21. Thunder Mitch McGary PF
22. Grizzlies Jordan Adams SG
23. Jazz Rodney Hood SG
24. Hornets Shabazz Napier PG
25. Rockets Clint Capela PF
26. Heat P.J. Hairston SG
27. Suns Bogdan Bogdanovic SG
28. Clippers C.J. Wilcox SG
29. Thunder Josh Huestis PF
30. Spurs Kyle Anderson PF

Bruno Caboclo (???)

PER of (-17.64) (Yes . . . that's MINUS 17.64).

Yes, most drafts are crap shoots but usually, a really good player comes late. Don't make arguments that are just convenient to you. Kobe and Steph Curry came after 5. Lots of good, great and elite players did. If you're going to use THAT draft then I can use other drafts as well to refute your argument.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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2/10/2016  11:31 PM
And we are where we are now bc of trading for players such as Jeff Teague. He's a solid player but he's no star. You can get more for your picks if you choose to trade it.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Malcolm
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2/10/2016  11:38 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:Yes, most drafts are crap shoots but usually, a really good player comes late. Don't make arguments that are just convenient to you. Kobe and Steph Curry came after 5. Lots of good, great and elite players did. If you're going to use THAT draft then I can use other drafts as well to refute your argument.
I was asking for someone to show me the numbers that justify keeping a #6 or lower pick in preference to a proven starter like Teague.

I just don't see that from history.

And I bet the numbers just don't show it.

There are better and worse drafts . . . and better than worse players traded for picks.

Picks #1 thru #5 seem to me to be worth the risk. But not #6 or lower.

Knicks won't even have that in 2018 -- more like #15.

If you can get Teague for a #15 pick . . . that's a steal.
sidsanders
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2/10/2016  11:45 PM
Malcolm wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:Yes, most drafts are crap shoots but usually, a really good player comes late. Don't make arguments that are just convenient to you. Kobe and Steph Curry came after 5. Lots of good, great and elite players did. If you're going to use THAT draft then I can use other drafts as well to refute your argument.
I was asking for someone to show me the numbers that justify keeping a #6 or lower pick in preference to a proven starter like Teague.

I just don't see that from history.

And I bet the numbers just don't show it.

There are better and worse drafts . . . and better than worse players traded for picks.

Picks #1 thru #5 seem to me to be worth the risk. But not #6 or lower.

Knicks won't even have that in 2018 -- more like #15.

If you can get Teague for a #15 pick . . . that's a steal.

bargs trade -- tor may be getting a lotto pick out of that. when some folks here were happy about that trade, they said the same thing: "that 2016 pick will not be a lotto pick, this is good value". if you can get a guy you think will push you over to the next level, then it may be worth it. this team seems seems far away to give up pics

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Malcolm
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2/10/2016  11:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2016  11:49 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:And we are where we are now bc of trading for players such as Jeff Teague. He's a solid player but he's no star. You can get more for your picks if you choose to trade it.
Here are the #1 picks that the Knicks have made recently:

2005 1 8 Channing Frye
2005 1 30 David Lee
2006 1 20 Renaldo Balkman
2006 1 29 Mardy Collins
2007 1 23 Wilson Chandler
2008 1 6 Danilo Gallinari
2009 1 8 Jordan Hill
2011 1 17 Iman Shumpert
2013 1 24 Tim Hardaway, Jr.
2015 1 4 Kristaps Porziņģis
2015 1 19 Jerian Grant

What's so great about these as a group . . . that makes anyone THAT sorry about the few #1 picks that were traded away (?)
sidsanders
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2/10/2016  11:55 PM
Malcolm wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:And we are where we are now bc of trading for players such as Jeff Teague. He's a solid player but he's no star. You can get more for your picks if you choose to trade it.
Here are the #1 picks that the Knicks have made recently:

2005 1 8 Channing Frye
2005 1 30 David Lee
2006 1 20 Renaldo Balkman
2006 1 29 Mardy Collins
2007 1 23 Wilson Chandler
2008 1 6 Danilo Gallinari
2009 1 8 Jordan Hill
2011 1 17 Iman Shumpert
2013 1 24 Tim Hardaway, Jr.
2015 1 4 Kristaps Porziņģis
2015 1 19 Jerian Grant

What's so great about these as a group . . . that makes anyone THAT sorry about the few #1 picks that were traded away (?)

knicks have been poorly run. they made bad choices with the picks they did have and traded away others for guys who did not work out. you trade cost controlled assets for the right guys -- thats the FOs job to figure out who/when/what that really means. constantly unloading picks and making poor choices in the draft, trades and FA is why ny has had crap since 2000.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
gunsnewing
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2/11/2016  12:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2016  12:11 AM
Malcolm wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:And we are where we are now bc of trading for players such as Jeff Teague. He's a solid player but he's no star. You can get more for your picks if you choose to trade it.
Here are the #1 picks that the Knicks have made recently:

2005 1 8 Channing Frye
2005 1 30 David Lee
2006 1 20 Renaldo Balkman
2006 1 29 Mardy Collins
2007 1 23 Wilson Chandler
2008 1 6 Danilo Gallinari
2009 1 8 Jordan Hill
2011 1 17 Iman Shumpert
2013 1 24 Tim Hardaway, Jr.
2015 1 4 Kristaps Porziņģis
2015 1 19 Jerian Grant

What's so great about these as a group . . . that makes anyone THAT sorry about the few #1 picks that were traded away (?)


That's because the Knicks were being run by incompetent idiots.

Do you know how Chicago drafted Noah and Portland drafted Aldridge?

Those were the Knicks lottery picks that Isiah traded for the immortal Edward Curry.

And im sure if you dig deep you will find another dozen incidents in the past 15 years where we gave up multiple 1st rd picks for the likes of Antonio Mcdyess, Stephon Marbury, Penny Hardaway, Qrich, Mo Taylor, Steve Francis, Zach Randolph, Melo & Bargnani
Malcolm
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2/11/2016  12:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2016  12:16 AM
And here are the #1 picks the Knicks traded away in past 10 years . . . and the player that was chosen:

2010 -- #9 Gordon Hayward
2012 -- #16 Royce White (OMG)
2014 -- #12 Dario Saric

This is keeping you all awake at night (?)

Sheeesh . . .
TLover
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2/11/2016  12:15 AM
2018 #1
Robin Lopez
Aaron Afflalo or Derrick Williams
Jerian Grant

To Atlanta for:
Al Horford
Dennis Schroder
Thabo Sebolosha

Tempting for both sides.
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/11/2016  7:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2016  7:56 AM
the spurs get it done every year, picking low.

Kawhi Leaonard was #15 and traded to them.

Parker was the 28th...Ginobili the 57th!

You can add in George Hill, Splitter, Scola, Dragic, BArbosa, Udrh, Joseph, mahinmi - all late picks


So yes, trade the pick but make sure you get a young upcoming player and maybe a 2nd round pick in return.
BRIGGS
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2/11/2016  8:15 AM
Malcolm wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:And we are where we are now bc of trading for players such as Jeff Teague. He's a solid player but he's no star. You can get more for your picks if you choose to trade it.
Here are the #1 picks that the Knicks have made recently:

2005 1 8 Channing Frye
2005 1 30 David Lee
2006 1 20 Renaldo Balkman
2006 1 29 Mardy Collins
2007 1 23 Wilson Chandler
2008 1 6 Danilo Gallinari
2009 1 8 Jordan Hill
2011 1 17 Iman Shumpert
2013 1 24 Tim Hardaway, Jr.
2015 1 4 Kristaps Porziņģis
2015 1 19 Jerian Grant

What's so great about these as a group . . . that makes anyone THAT sorry about the few #1 picks that were traded away (?)

Boy just shows just how bad Knicks ownership and management had been by who we missed in the draft. By the way if you haven't noticed we also stink at trading for nba players

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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2/11/2016  8:18 AM
A couple of these new posters either are retreaded dumb arse posters or idiots who work for the Knicks in some capacity.same old sht
RIP Crushalot😞
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/11/2016  8:18 AM
True many very good were missed by the Knicks and many other teams. However, Lee, Chandler, Gallinari, and Ariza (2nd rd) have all had decent NBA careers. Frye and Hill have had their moments too.

Shump? Eh. Collins, THjr and Blkman - pretty much awful.
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/11/2016  8:25 AM
OMG - the Shump year -

Butler, Reggie Jackson, Faried, Harris, Mirotic!!!
shinmen
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2/11/2016  8:37 AM
It's true the knicks have been plain horrible in regards of choosing draft picks but it doesn't mean they are not valuable.
When you look at http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1934735-where-did-all-the-ny-knicks-draft-picks-go, we can see that had we kept all of our picks, some very good players could have worn a knicks jersey.
BRIGGS
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2/11/2016  8:38 AM
This is who weve trade an assortment of lottery picks for over many many years

Antonio Mcdyess Eddy Curry Stephon Marbury Andres Bargnanai and we traded our whole existing team for Carmelo
and through this 15 year process weve won 1 playoff series trading away picks while the team who have won championships have been loaded with their own players

NEXT.

RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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2/11/2016  9:04 AM
there is a middle ground. If we didnt overvalue our young players and a pick Kyle Lowry would be a Knick right now and we would have one of the best guards in the East, but we just couldnt duplicate past mistakes and clung to Shumpert and the pick.

The problem is we never made trades that got us picks pack and we really failed to use and value the draft. Isiah added some players using the draft but also made the worst trades involving pics in franchise history.

If the right trade is there OK, but I would hope the Knicks do normal NBA stuff like put protections on it.

I mean if I can get a core piece/player moving forward than yea... Im willing use my pick for that. Tell me the trade.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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2/11/2016  11:01 AM
BRIGGS wrote:This is who weve trade an assortment of lottery picks for over many many years

Antonio Mcdyess Eddy Curry Stephon Marbury Andres Bargnanai and we traded our whole existing team for Carmelo
and through this 15 year process weve won 1 playoff series trading away picks while the team who have won championships have been loaded with their own players

NEXT.

and yet Darrin Collison for Grant and LT?

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