MS wrote:Why are we giving him his due?

He is 49th in PER in the NBA? He is averaging 7.5pts 4assist and we are paying him $7MM. He takes care of the ball, but he is below average in just about everything. This was and always will be Phil's worst move. We lack depth at the guard position so he seems more valuable when you have to play Sasha.

Being healthy is also an attribute of a player. Jose missed half the season last year and is injured again. We are on the hook for $7.5MM next year. When you can find a Galloway for 1.7MM or sign a Lin for 2.2MM hard to get excited about a pg that's playing medicore ball.

Tyson Chandler (3 years/$39 million, fully guaranteed): In his age 33 season, Chandler has fallen off a cliff. His 5.6 PPG are the second lowest in his career. Rebounds have dipped down to around 8 RPG. And his shot blocking is now under 1 BPG. And, most shocking of all, his FG% is now at 48%. For a player whose career average is 58.8% and has regularly been amongst the league leaders, this is a drop off that he seems unlikely to come back from. Chandler has battled injuries throughout the years to his legs, back and feet. Once one of the most athletic players in the league, he no longer has the lift or explosiveness to finish as he once did. His elite level defense has waned as his athleticism has dropped off. The Suns signed Chandler as the first piece to entice other FAs. While the plan was solid at the time, the end result seems to be that they will carry large dollars on their cap for little return in value.

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:All of our guards are 2nd and 3rd string talent. We need a serious upgrade in the back court which has been obvious to everyone since the summer. So why should we give Jose some due? He's had 11 seasons in the NBA and he is still what he is...except older, slower and more injury prone.

Cuz he is what we got and I root for him to succeed as a knick. This wishful thinking that somehow by giving Galloway more minutes he will magically emerge. He gets his minutes and is coming along. The other thing is some NBA scrub is lighting up the Dleague and we assume he could do the same here. As Fishmike said, Jose would be tearing up the Dleague if he was there. We don't need grant tearing up the Dleague, we need him playing as he has and learning. Not all rookies get it their first year.

We have come a long way in one season, I for one are enjoying "What it is", not what its not!!!

so you are saying we should be settlers just because he is what we got.

.....ok, Jimmy has his hoop and stick, and Jane got her faceless doll, and me I got my foot stomping

MS wrote:Fish, please tell me what Tyson's production this year has to do with anything? It doesn't. The Suns have no identity. The traded Isiah Thomas for peanuts, signed Chandler because they thought they were going to get Aldridge, so pointing out indept management decisions of another franchise has nothing to do with my point.

Centers, especially defensive minded centers in a contract year are valuable. The numbers you should have posted were 10.3pts 11.5rbs 1.2blks, which were exceptional last year for Tyson.

Jose, is not a good point guard at this stage in his career. A good lockeroom guy is not worth 7MM this year and 7.5MM of additional salary. Phil clogged the cap with this move for next season. Jose has yet to prove he can stay healthy, the four years prior to this one he has average 49 games a season, he is good for 20 missed games a year generally. The Knicks are a better team this year because Affalo, Lopez, KP the emergence of Thomas. Jose is playing better, but not at his salary.

Take a look at Tyson's career and it swings from greatness to long spells of the flu. You never know which Tyson you are getting from one season to the next. DPOY/Championship center, or Flu Tyson who had no trouble throwing teammates under the bus, while conveniently holding himself blameless.

Every GM in the league knew his story, but one was dumb enough to give Tyson a $39 Million dollar deal over just 3 years.

I would love to see Fisher hand the keys to Grant, but he's not ready. If Calderon wasn't playing with a lot of heart, pushing himself, it would be harder to watch.

GustavBahler wrote:

MS wrote:Fish, please tell me what Tyson's production this year has to do with anything? It doesn't. The Suns have no identity. The traded Isiah Thomas for peanuts, signed Chandler because they thought they were going to get Aldridge, so pointing out indept management decisions of another franchise has nothing to do with my point.

Centers, especially defensive minded centers in a contract year are valuable. The numbers you should have posted were 10.3pts 11.5rbs 1.2blks, which were exceptional last year for Tyson.

Jose, is not a good point guard at this stage in his career. A good lockeroom guy is not worth 7MM this year and 7.5MM of additional salary. Phil clogged the cap with this move for next season. Jose has yet to prove he can stay healthy, the four years prior to this one he has average 49 games a season, he is good for 20 missed games a year generally. The Knicks are a better team this year because Affalo, Lopez, KP the emergence of Thomas. Jose is playing better, but not at his salary.

Take a look at Tyson's career and it swings from greatness to long spells of the flu. You never know which Tyson you are getting from one season to the next. DPOY/Championship center, or Flu Tyson who had no trouble throwing teammates under the bus, while conveniently holding himself blameless.

Every GM in the league knew his story, but one was dumb enough to give Tyson a $39 Million dollar deal over just 3 years.

I would love to see Fisher hand the keys to Grant, but he's not ready. If Calderon wasn't playing with a lot of heart, pushing himself, it would be harder to watch.

MS wrote:Listen I don't like Chandler, never have. But, we could have got something better than Jose. The Cavs gave up two pics for Mozgov. Phil just moved him too soon. My assessment has nothing to do with what he is doing this year. I would have never signed him. Everyone remembers how to play again in a contract year.

If it was just this year, fine. But, you don't see a problem with this number 2016-2017 - $7,708,427

And no.. I dont have a problem with that number. Unless you would like to win 30 games this year with PGs like Toney Douglas and Mike Bibby.

People here really seem to struggle with the fact that when you have a roster of nothing you are going to have to add some player that are stop gap. So when you do that what do you look for? Guys that bring things to the table you value. Jose plays hard, takes care of the ball and is helping the development of the young guys. If you think that is BS ask Derozan, Bosh or 20 other guys that have played with Jose.

ChuckBuck wrote:Nobody should be getting their due if they're making $15 million over 2 years and producing absolute dog **** out there.

Never settle people, that's a losers mentality.

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Nobody should be getting their due if they're making $15 million over 2 years and producing absolute dog **** out there.

Never settle people, that's a losers mentality.

No chuck.. losers mentality is what the Knicks have when their alpha dog Melo doesnt play.

Alpha Dog Melo has Beta knees. He won't last the length of his contract.

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Nobody should be getting their due if they're making $15 million over 2 years and producing absolute dog **** out there.

Never settle people, that's a losers mentality.

No chuck.. losers mentality is what the Knicks have when their alpha dog Melo doesnt play.

Alpha Dog Melo has Beta knees. He won't last the length of his contract.

yup... when you are wrong and sound dumb time to switch gears. So now you are rooting for him to get hurt? That would provide a good told ya so.

No gears to switch. Bad contract is a bad contract, no matter a recent stretch of play. Allan Houston bad.

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Nobody should be getting their due if they're making $15 million over 2 years and producing absolute dog **** out there.

Never settle people, that's a losers mentality.

No chuck.. losers mentality is what the Knicks have when their alpha dog Melo doesnt play.

Alpha Dog Melo has Beta knees. He won't last the length of his contract.

yup... when you are wrong and sound dumb time to switch gears. So now you are rooting for him to get hurt? That would provide a good told ya so.

No gears to switch. Bad contract is a bad contract, no matter a recent stretch of play. Allan Houston bad.

that is your opinion. Its a bad opinion though. TFK bad.

How so? The real logical move would be to get assets in return while teams are viewing Melo positively now, and do a complete rebuild to fit pieces that complement KP(draft picks, role players). Not barely making the playoffs this season, then having dwindling production and returns for a 32 year+ player that'll decline rapidly and barely play 50 to 60 games a season while making $24million a season.

That's just dumb team building.

Knicks were just valued at 3 Billion Dolan'$. As long as Melo is a perennial All star he isn't going anywhere. NBA is still a business. People need to stop with the trade Melo and total rebuild already.