newyorker4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

man the unrealistic expectations are truly baffling. This was just an incredible game to me, showed me how far the Knicks have come from scratch last season and how far they still need to go all in 1 game.

Let me rephrase the gist of your post: Why can't the Knicks beat the 3rd best team in the league without their own best player? OKC has 2 of the best 5 guys on the planet, a solid all defensive PF/low level all star and a solid supporting cast. Why can't Fisher just out coach players who are afterthoughts for other teams and some barely above D-League'ish guys?

There is no doubt that some of the Knicks played over their collective heads, witness DWill hitting jumpers and LT going off after a long injury break and Grant finally showing up this season with an aggressive stance. But our guys just went head to head with another top level team not named GSW. Knicks make playoffs and they are the 1 team no one wants to play.

It was a great game though wasn't it?? Everyone pitched in for us and did good things. KP started the game hot and then it really just stopped for him besides a play here or there that were big but the way he started i thought he'd absolutely score more than 15 points. Now this is where certain people find a way to blame that on Fisher which is also getting out of hand by those certain people. Great game and fun game to watch.

Best game of the year for me (if they won ) still awesome nonetheless.

Here are some guys who got large minutes for the Knicks: DWill, LT, Gallo, Seraphin; players that barely a team wanted last year. We all know Jose sucks and should be a 15-20 minute guy off the bench.

KP is our 1 talent guy. AA should be another guy off the bench on a decent team. Rolo is a solid rotation guy.

And yet the Knicks got out played and out coached?

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

you're not going to win with afflalo playing starter's minutes and taking the last shot. we would have won the game were it not for that.

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If I could trade Melo for Jae Crowder David Lee Kelly Olynck and Brookyln's 2016 2018 and an additional #1 of our choice I would do it.

We have a star player in the making--if we were able to pull another top 5 pick this year with Crowder and Olynck--we'd be better off long term. CA leg is a ticking time bomb.

please... just stop. NY trading Melo to Boston.

"If I could have Jessica Alba over for a 3some I would do it."

Might as well discuss my statement. Its got the same level of reasonability.

lol

It would have to be to a team like Charlotte or Washington. Jordan& Charlotte because they never had a marquee player like Melo unless you go back to the Zo/LJ days. Or Washington for the "I'm coming home" factor.

Houston & Dallas might work as well. If Melo wants to go to Phoenix their medical staff and the Deer Antler/HGH/Meth labs in Arizona will do wonders for Melo's Knee and he will be able to play grant hill/lebron ball til he's 40.

Then there's always Miami & Cleveland who are a Melo away from making real noise in the East and can offer us a nice package in return consisting of Winslow etc

But teams like Boston who are building from scratch and alresdy know what it takes to win won't starphuch for an aging star unless they already have a Franchise player in his prime in place. Like Paul Pierce when they added KG & Allen

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

you're not going to win with afflalo playing starter's minutes and taking the last shot. we would have won the game were it not for that.

AA has made big shots in many games for us this year in 4th quarters. He's our #2 scorer after Melo and was hitting some big shots in the 4th quarter after being horrible in the other 3 quarters but again was starting to turn it on in the 4th so they ran a play for him that gave him a shot he's been hitting most of the year and the ball went in and out. I'm good with that shot.

newyorker4ever wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

you're not going to win with afflalo playing starter's minutes and taking the last shot. we would have won the game were it not for that.

AA has made big shots in many games for us this year in 4th quarters. He's our #2 scorer after Melo and was hitting some big shots in the 4th quarter after being horrible in the other 3 quarters but again was starting to turn it on in the 4th so they ran a play for him that gave him a shot he's been hitting most of the year and the ball went in and out. I'm good with that shot.

he shot 6-21 with 2 assists, a 28 usage and a 7 assist rate. in his mind he is bryant. listen carefully to fisher's post game comments when asked about afflalo at the 2:23 mark http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/teams/knicks/2016/01/27/dropbox_nyk_fisher_20160126_MSGI_2528k_1280w.mp4-255240. behind the coach-speak you can interpret that afflalo does not execute properly.

is afflalo a good/effective/playmaking passer? it's a team game and a very simple question.

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If I could trade Melo for Jae Crowder David Lee Kelly Olynck and Brookyln's 2016 2018 and an additional #1 of our choice I would do it.

We have a star player in the making--if we were able to pull another top 5 pick this year with Crowder and Olynck--we'd be better off long term. CA leg is a ticking time bomb.

please... just stop. NY trading Melo to Boston.

"If I could have Jessica Alba over for a 3some I would do it."

Might as well discuss my statement. Its got the same level of reasonability.

lol

It would have to be to a team like Charlotte or Washington. Jordan& Charlotte because they never had a marquee player like Melo unless you go back to the Zo/LJ days. Or Washington for the "I'm coming home" factor.

Houston & Dallas might work as well. If Melo wants to go to Phoenix their medical staff and the Deer Antler/HGH/Meth labs in Arizona will do wonders for Melo's Knee and he will be able to play grant hill/lebron ball til he's 40.

Then there's always Miami & Cleveland who are a Melo away from making real noise in the East and can offer us a nice package in return consisting of Winslow etc

But teams like Boston who are building from scratch and alresdy know what it takes to win won't starphuch for an aging star unless they already have a Franchise player in his prime in place. Like Paul Pierce when they added KG & Allen

Melo is married to this team, this management, this city and this contract. Nothing is happening until that contract expires. This is easy to see.

Melo is not going anywhere.
He will play for NY as much games as his legs will allow.
Playing him more that 30 min is insanity and nonsense.
I do not expect him to play much at all after the All star break.
We need to start bringing up some new try-and-error players and give Galo, Grant, DWill, and even OQ more playing time.
We need more info for future decisions more that anything. Probably second to saving Melo mileage for more meaningful seasons.

newyorker4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

man the unrealistic expectations are truly baffling. This was just an incredible game to me, showed me how far the Knicks have come from scratch last season and how far they still need to go all in 1 game.

Let me rephrase the gist of your post: Why can't the Knicks beat the 3rd best team in the league without their own best player? OKC has 2 of the best 5 guys on the planet, a solid all defensive PF/low level all star and a solid supporting cast. Why can't Fisher just out coach players who are afterthoughts for other teams and some barely above D-League'ish guys?

There is no doubt that some of the Knicks played over their collective heads, witness DWill hitting jumpers and LT going off after a long injury break and Grant finally showing up this season with an aggressive stance. But our guys just went head to head with another top level team not named GSW. Knicks make playoffs and they are the 1 team no one wants to play.

It was a great game though wasn't it?? Everyone pitched in for us and did good things. KP started the game hot and then it really just stopped for him besides a play here or there that were big but the way he started i thought he'd absolutely score more than 15 points. Now this is where certain people find a way to blame that on Fisher which is also getting out of hand by those certain people. Great game and fun game to watch.

Best game of the year for me (if they won ) still awesome nonetheless.

Here are some guys who got large minutes for the Knicks: DWill, LT, Gallo, Seraphin; players that barely a team wanted last year. We all know Jose sucks and should be a 15-20 minute guy off the bench.

KP is our 1 talent guy. AA should be another guy off the bench on a decent team. Rolo is a solid rotation guy.

And yet the Knicks got out played and out coached?

Out Coached?? So they got out coached by the rookie NBA coach in B.Donovan or maybe they just got out played by a much better team that has really good to great players at every position?? So D.Fisher coached a bad game but yet got a Melo less team to OT with a top 3 team in the west?? Hmmmmmmmmm just don't see it that way.

just so we are clear.... I am agreeing with you on the out coached question.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.

yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I was listening to WFAN after the game last night, and some ahole from Canarsey or someplace was beeyatching out his PMS about "i've been watching the knicks for 15 years and it's so ... just ... bad...so difficult to watch..." It sounded so much like the whining that goes on here incessantly.

Are we even in this fuhucking game last year? OT against the OKC Thunder? Almost winning it at the buzzer in regulation? No, last year it's a 37 point blowout in the third quarter, and Durant and his man Kato are sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter wondering where they're going for dinner for the last 12 minutes.

Progress gentlemen, is about patience.

Bonn, when exactly did playing basketball become an exercise in Monopoly money? So if MelothePayrollDrag is in the game last night, do we score 33% more points? And don't fuhuck around with the point differential, because your $124MM pariah is playing defense this season...

when the league implemented a salary cap
I didn't criticize Melo, though, and I actually praised the team. Lighten up.

I mean we put up a $50 mil team against a $100 mil team. No one should have expected us to win.

I do happen to think salary is a poor way to judge prospective wins and losses. Especially with some of the bloated salaries that are out there right now.

Cartman718 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

you're not going to win with afflalo playing starter's minutes and taking the last shot. we would have won the game were it not for that.

AA has made big shots in many games for us this year in 4th quarters. He's our #2 scorer after Melo and was hitting some big shots in the 4th quarter after being horrible in the other 3 quarters but again was starting to turn it on in the 4th so they ran a play for him that gave him a shot he's been hitting most of the year and the ball went in and out. I'm good with that shot.

Yeah you be good with that shot...I'm not.

4th quarter...pre-crunch time...
11:05 Arron Afflalo makes a 5-foot jumper in the lane. Assist: Derrick Williams
8:48 Arron Afflalo misses an 8-foot jumper in the lane
8:19 Arron Afflalo makes a 5-foot jumper in the lane. Assist: Jerian Grant
6:50 Arron Afflalo makes a 24-foot three-pointer from the left corner. Assist: Derrick Williams
5:16 Arron Afflalo misses a 26-foot three-pointer from the left wing

4th quarter...crunch time (biggest shots time)...
4:29 Offensive foul on Arron Afflalo (the drastic lean into westbrook)
4:19 Personal foul on Arron Afflalo
3:13 Arron Afflalo enters game for Jerian Grant
26.8 Arron Afflalo misses an 11-foot fade away jumper along the left baseline
00.9 Arron Afflalo misses a 13-foot turnaround jumper along the left baseline

OverTime...
4:31 Arron Afflalo misses a 6-foot jumper in the lane
2:57 Arron Afflalo hits 2 free throws
1:12 Arron Afflalo misses a layup

and when OKC was up by 4-5 points in OT....
18.7 Arron Afflalo drives to the hoop for a layup
09.9 Arron Afflalo misses a 25-foot three-pointer from the top of the arc

And by the way, this does not include, the other passes that he may have attempted at 5 seconds or less left in the shotclock to someone that was in a terrible position in the 4th quarter or OT.
This also shows the fact he made a net 2 scoring plays after the 6:50 mark in the 4th.
This also shows that he had 0 assists or rebounds or blocks in the 4th.

As far as being the #2 scorer....
no he isn't...that's KP....in 5 mins less average per game.
Derrick Williams has more points per 48 mins. (9 points in half the time)

The pecking order needs to be Melo, KP, DWill, Affalo on offense...not Melo, Affalo, KP, DWill.

Bingo

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.

yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I agree here, but there are some things that need to be added to the coaching staff, I'm not say getting rid of fisher, but there needs to be a sound logical mind added to that coaching staff, someone who knows more than just the triangle.

So i'm noticing that this thread is just another way to bash Fisher but the Fisher hate by some isn't correct and you can't just blame every loss on him. Players still have to play the game.

I'm not bashing fisher, Can you comfortably say that he's doing a great job? I don't think so, an he's not the only coach on the staff. It's a collective of minds that don't alway make the right decisions.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

man the unrealistic expectations are truly baffling. This was just an incredible game to me, showed me how far the Knicks have come from scratch last season and how far they still need to go all in 1 game.

Let me rephrase the gist of your post: Why can't the Knicks beat the 3rd best team in the league without their own best player? OKC has 2 of the best 5 guys on the planet, a solid all defensive PF/low level all star and a solid supporting cast. Why can't Fisher just out coach players who are afterthoughts for other teams and some barely above D-League'ish guys?

There is no doubt that some of the Knicks played over their collective heads, witness DWill hitting jumpers and LT going off after a long injury break and Grant finally showing up this season with an aggressive stance. But our guys just went head to head with another top level team not named GSW. Knicks make playoffs and they are the 1 team no one wants to play.

Just like the players, the coaches don't always make the right decisions, and in the clutch, fisher and his staff have been very suspect. They have to get better.

moral wins do nothing for your confidence. If that was melo on the ISO play that AA had last night against the thunder, he would have been crucified, and if Woodson was the coach, he would have been buried alive for his lack of creativity.

So MARTIN tell me how long will you continue to give Fisher and his staff excuse after excuse, these players phil brought in had options, the Knicks weren't the last available. We don't have other teams cast offs. We know galloway is capable of nights like he had, no suprise for anyone, so i don't know what d leaguers you speak of.

Did you not think LOPEZ (your better defender) and calderon (your better decision maker and shooter) not be on thE floor for your LAST DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE POSSESSION, THAT'S A COACH'S CALL, dude you know that. I'm talking reality, this isn't some off the wall see if can stick thing.

They have to get better with the rotation, it's the only thing IMO thats killing them