Knicks1969 wrote:D Will is doing exactly what I envisioned. Too bad it took the coaching staff this long to note that this dude is a studd and needs more then 15 minutes to be effective

man, you really are clueless.

martin wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:17 ppg, 6rebs, 52% FGs

And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

No way that Knicks should risk those $ on a player who still plays in spurts and is fundamentally flawed. 3/$18 would be as far as I would go given what is known and seen up to this point and I even have a hard time with that raise given how uncertain any future projections are

DWill has the best WS/48 on the Knicks. He is very important to this team and his play gets better every month (see crzy's #s he posted). $6mm a year isnt getting it done. You prefer to let him walk than resign him? Who are you saving that money for?
Is your concern he will regress?

Look at the title of the thread " Dwill last five games". How about last five years? Previous teams have seen this act before only to be dissapointed . Erratic talent, still cant shoot threes, defend or rebound much. He isnt a starter but a bench player, very good at times, very mediocre at times. Throw in his questionable decisions on and off the court and you have someone who should not be given any large guarantees in years or money.

Actually he was a very good 3 pt shooter in college, I see him trying harder on defense, and except for 1 questionable off court decision what are the other bad off court decisions? I thought he was a good pickup at the time and watching him play I think we definitely need to resign him. Great athlete and only getting better.

That's a surprise to me. His outside shot is, well, shot. Would love for him to go to the school of Lance Thomas over the summer.

His 2nd yr he shot 42 of 74 for 57%. He seems like he takes shots sometimes where he just doesn't go straight up. His form is good IMO.

nyk4ever wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:D Will is doing exactly what I envisioned. Too bad it took the coaching staff this long to note that this dude is a studd and needs more then 15 minutes to be effective

man, you really are clueless.

Man ur not clueless:) thank you genious:::))))

martin wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:D Will is doing exactly what I envisioned. Too bad it took the coaching staff this long to note that this dude is a studd and needs more then 15 minutes to be effective

It's tiring because it's so 1-dimensional without the possibility that a lot of other things played into what you are assuming.

How would guys even debate what 1969 is saying. Its the samthing with lopez more minutes better production. These guys were getting after a couple of muss rebounds, or a one ir two defensive alignment.
The only good thing that came out of this is we got to lance step way up because he tooj the bulk of min.

I could bet the house that if they gave GRANT 20 minutes pg, you would see a much better player.

Knicks1969 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think it might be a good thing for the Knicks to try to offer DWill a similar deal to the one he took this season - a two year deal with a player opt out after one. Give him a raise - maybe to $8-$10M per, but make him keep working to earn that real long-term deal and keep flexibility in place for 2017, as well. I'd try the same tactic with Afflalo. Anyway, I actually trust Phil to handle the cap negotiations well.

But DWill is definitely finding a comfort zone with his role here and that is nice to see. This is the guy we'd hope we'd see based on that pre-season he had.

I think I need to see this sustained for a while before I am willing to invest 4yr $50M in him or something, but it is promising.

I feel like he fills that role on Phil teams like when Toni Kukoc or Lamar Odom came off the bench as the scoring forward who had license to push the ball coast to coast on rebounds. Those guys were more playmakers than DWill is, it'll be interesting to see if he can add that wrinkle.

He's also pretty great insurance if Melo or KP need a night off or are in foul trouble.

i agree with a lot of this. Players learn from the coaches, but also from their fellow players. In Minn. and Sac. who was he learning from? He has room to learn/grow here, which is real exciting, and he fits into this system (and can fit even better with growth) but was misplaced in others

Last night when he fought for all those offensive rebounds and scored on a key possession were great -- everything Bargs wasn't (another high draft pick who we hoped would fulfill potential)

Yeah, you know who else I've seen fight to get a putback rebound like that? Melo. That actually felt like a Melo bully ball putback more than anything. Regarding learning from players - maybe being up close to Melo and seeing his competitive fire and how hard he works is a good thing for him. Melo is definitely the best player DWill's ever played with.

I think DWill, with a structure and a system, a good base of talent and high character guys around him, and a defined role... you see he is starting to blossom a little.

His January stats overall - 12ppg 5rpg 48%fg. If you look at his splits, he's trended up in minutes, points, shooting percentage every month. I bet if we looked across the team, we'd see a lot of guys like that.

I agree that Carmelo also has a lot to do with the development of our kids. I am not discrediting the job our coaches are doing, it is just baffling that they chose not to play a young dude constant minutes as a way to send him a message. I saw nothing from his plays early on that said the dude couldn't play or was not going full speed. However, it is now Water under bridge, because they have finally decided to unleash the dude. Thank God!

newyorker4ever wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:17 ppg, 6rebs, 52% FGs

And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

No way that Knicks should risk those $ on a player who still plays in spurts and is fundamentally flawed. 3/$18 would be as far as I would go given what is known and seen up to this point and I even have a hard time with that raise given how uncertain any future projections are

DWill has the best WS/48 on the Knicks. He is very important to this team and his play gets better every month (see crzy's #s he posted). $6mm a year isnt getting it done. You prefer to let him walk than resign him? Who are you saving that money for?
Is your concern he will regress?

Look at the title of the thread " Dwill last five games". How about last five years? Previous teams have seen this act before only to be dissapointed . Erratic talent, still cant shoot threes, defend or rebound much. He isnt a starter but a bench player, very good at times, very mediocre at times. Throw in his questionable decisions on and off the court and you have someone who should not be given any large guarantees in years or money.

I'm with you on the fact that we need to be real careful with how many years and how much money we give him. I love what he's done for us in some of our games but like you said this has been seen before from him only for him to go right back to being that same old D-Will. Of course there's no way to tell if he'll go back to being that guy again but there's also no way to tell if he won't either. If i had to guess i'd think that he'd be the better D-Will cause he's in a better situation with us then he's been in anywhere else but that's a guess from someone that doesn't know. I actually think he'll do what all the other young players do and take the biggest offer he gets this off season and i don't blame the young players for doing it cause they have a lifestyle that they have to be able to afford but we'll see about that in the off season. Just because he's playing well for us doesn't mean we have to go all in for him and luckily we have Phil who i trust to make the right decision with him.

Williams chose to come to NY. Because he always wanted to play under Phil's leadership. We have a very good chance retaining this dude.

martin wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:17 ppg, 6rebs, 52% FGs

And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

No way that Knicks should risk those $ on a player who still plays in spurts and is fundamentally flawed. 3/$18 would be as far as I would go given what is known and seen up to this point and I even have a hard time with that raise given how uncertain any future projections are

DWill has the best WS/48 on the Knicks. He is very important to this team and his play gets better every month (see crzy's #s he posted). $6mm a year isnt getting it done. You prefer to let him walk than resign him? Who are you saving that money for?
Is your concern he will regress?

Look at the title of the thread " Dwill last five games". How about last five years? Previous teams have seen this act before only to be dissapointed . Erratic talent, still cant shoot threes, defend or rebound much. He isnt a starter but a bench player, very good at times, very mediocre at times. Throw in his questionable decisions on and off the court and you have someone who should not be given any large guarantees in years or money.

Actually he was a very good 3 pt shooter in college, I see him trying harder on defense, and except for 1 questionable off court decision what are the other bad off court decisions? I thought he was a good pickup at the time and watching him play I think we definitely need to resign him. Great athlete and only getting better.

That's a surprise to me. His outside shot is, well, shot. Would love for him to go to the school of Lance Thomas over the summer.

the lance thomas summer school program has been sold out for ages

WaltLongmire wrote:At his best when moving without the ball, and the other guys on the team are getting the ball to him in good position.

Still has those moments a smart vet would not have, but Williams has done a pretty good job taking advantage of the opportunities our system offers him, and he's helping out the assist rates of his teammates.

Had my doubts about signing him, but in general he's been a pleasant surprise. Got to like the energy he brings, and the NYC setting has not seemed to faze him.

I think I referred to him as a "wildcard" prior to the start of the season since I had no idea of how he would do for us playing in a "system" offense, but he has definitely exceeded my expectations.

Along with Anthony's metamorphosis and KP's precociousness, Williams' play has been the biggest positive surprise for me this year.

did you see that play last night when Dwil was bringing up the ball and almost passed it into the back court? Sheeeeesh

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:At his best when moving without the ball, and the other guys on the team are getting the ball to him in good position.

Still has those moments a smart vet would not have, but Williams has done a pretty good job taking advantage of the opportunities our system offers him, and he's helping out the assist rates of his teammates.

Had my doubts about signing him, but in general he's been a pleasant surprise. Got to like the energy he brings, and the NYC setting has not seemed to faze him.

I think I referred to him as a "wildcard" prior to the start of the season since I had no idea of how he would do for us playing in a "system" offense, but he has definitely exceeded my expectations.

Along with Anthony's metamorphosis and KP's precociousness, Williams' play has been the biggest positive surprise for me this year.

did you see that play last night when Dwil was bringing up the ball and almost passed it into the back court? Sheeeeesh

Yup...

At least once a game I'm "talking to him" on the TV telling him to pass it off to a guard instead of bringing it up and going "coastal."

they want him to bring it up because our guards can't beat the press. However, its scary as hell though getting a bit better.

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:17 ppg, 6rebs, 52% FGs

And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

No way that Knicks should risk those $ on a player who still plays in spurts and is fundamentally flawed. 3/$18 would be as far as I would go given what is known and seen up to this point and I even have a hard time with that raise given how uncertain any future projections are

DWill has the best WS/48 on the Knicks. He is very important to this team and his play gets better every month (see crzy's #s he posted). $6mm a year isnt getting it done. You prefer to let him walk than resign him? Who are you saving that money for?
Is your concern he will regress?

Look at the title of the thread " Dwill last five games". How about last five years? Previous teams have seen this act before only to be dissapointed . Erratic talent, still cant shoot threes, defend or rebound much. He isnt a starter but a bench player, very good at times, very mediocre at times. Throw in his questionable decisions on and off the court and you have someone who should not be given any large guarantees in years or money.

I'm with you on the fact that we need to be real careful with how many years and how much money we give him. I love what he's done for us in some of our games but like you said this has been seen before from him only for him to go right back to being that same old D-Will. Of course there's no way to tell if he'll go back to being that guy again but there's also no way to tell if he won't either. If i had to guess i'd think that he'd be the better D-Will cause he's in a better situation with us then he's been in anywhere else but that's a guess from someone that doesn't know. I actually think he'll do what all the other young players do and take the biggest offer he gets this off season and i don't blame the young players for doing it cause they have a lifestyle that they have to be able to afford but we'll see about that in the off season. Just because he's playing well for us doesn't mean we have to go all in for him and luckily we have Phil who i trust to make the right decision with him.

Williams chose to come to NY. Because he always wanted to play under Phil's leadership. We have a very good chance retaining this dude.