crzymdups wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Now if we never ever ever see the disaster known as Sascha Vujacic on the floor, Fisher will REALLY have gotten it.

Only play Sascha Vujacic if all your guards have fouled out and you're up 30+.

Compare to how bad fisher was doing early on, I will give him a pass on Sasha:::)) I am happy to finally see Williams "our most athletic player" get more minutes. When this dude play 15 minutes or more, he puts up a lot of points and the Knicks often win.

Just posted this in the game thread, but it applies here:

One thing about Sasha last night - he does know how to run the damn offense. He came in last night when things were dire and it was like he ran a little two minute clinic on how to set up good shots in the Triangle and then Galloway and Grant were like "ohhhh, okay. alright. fine." Watch the shots they were getting before Sasha came in and then the shots they got with Sasha running things briefly. It was like he was a coach on the floor to fix the offense last night.

Good points. On the gameday thread as soon as Sasha came in a lot of people were saying the normal things like "well there goes this game" or "now Utah is gonna kill us" or whatever the typical things are but he actually came in and set up some shots and we played well for those few minutes he played. maybe you're right and he was just showing Gallo and Grant what they should be doing. I still don't wanna see Sasha on the court much but he's doing what's asked of him.

Yeah - and I think it's clear he's accepted his role and is kind of a leader in the locker room and on the bench for what is actually a very young team outside of Melo, Rolo, Afflalo, Jose. Everyone else on the team is 24 or younger.

totally agree. I've never seen him sulk either (same for Cleanthony or Lou, not true for Seraphin). The Celtics used to have certain players (e.g., Wedman [sp?]) that were sort of Red's victory cigar -- they only came in when the game was already won. Hope to see the team grow so that Sasha becomes that guy some day.

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Why put KP on Haywood. He had 5 fouls and is foul prone. I know Lance was out but Afflalo, Grant, have more than ample speed to have given the foul.

KP wasn't assigned to Haywood...it was a switch on a screen. I'm pretty sure most if not all NBA coaches do not intentionally foul with their team up 3...even Pop.

Yeah, also if KP moves into foul Hayward when he's dribbling behind the 3pt line of course Hayward would try to put up a shot so he got fouled in the act. If they were going to foul, they should've fouled Gobert on the inbounds pass when he was 30ft away from the basket with his back to the basket.

They defended that pretty well though - KP has to learn not to bite on pump fakes at the three point line. That's two games in past week or so he fouled out closing out on a three point shooter.

LT did it too, trying to remember if it was Nets. Both of these guys have high IQs too, so it's all the more frustrating.

It is frustrating, but in general I don't feel like it's too bad a thing if our guys are getting fouls for trying TOO HARD on defense. You have to be smart, but they can learn the smarts. The effort being there is a very nice thing.

agree totally. this is a tweak and needs some attention. They defended that play really well for 99% of it. Not to bitch too much about the state of officiating with regard to the Knicks, but I'm sure we all remember the Sacramento game when Melo was in Hayward's spot and ROndo was mauling him and the refs swallowed their whistles. (i.e., the game in which KP was all alone under the basket)

It takes time.

nixluva wrote:Here's the thing... This isn't so much Fish finally getting anything! This is the way they wanted MELO to play PERIOD! This is what they talked about from day one. MELO had to learn the system and trust his teammates! They haven't had to change anything but rather MELO had to take charge of the role! Phil had this in mind from day one. It's just finally taking hold. MELO is embracing the role.

All Fisher has done is shortened the bench some. The biggest reasons for the Knicks improved play is
1. Melo playing like Lebron James lite. For his usage Melo should be averaging at least 5 assists a game. He is finally on that pace. Besides that his defense has been so much better

2. Robin Lopez is playing well after having 9 games of double digit points in his first 34 games he has had 7 in his last 10. His rebounding has also improved
First 34 games 2 games of double digit rebounds, while 4 in the last 10. Overall first 34 games 8.4 ppg 6 Rebounds , Last 10 12.7 ppg 7.6 rebounds.

3. Affalo has averaged 18 ppg the last 10 while hovering around 13 the rest of the season.

4. Derrick Wiliams , This guy needs to have consistent minutes. He can provide instant energy and scoring punch from the bench. When Melo doesn't is shooting poorly , Williams needs to be on the floor to pick up the slack.

Chandler wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Why put KP on Haywood. He had 5 fouls and is foul prone. I know Lance was out but Afflalo, Grant, have more than ample speed to have given the foul.

KP wasn't assigned to Haywood...it was a switch on a screen. I'm pretty sure most if not all NBA coaches do not intentionally foul with their team up 3...even Pop.

I don't think that's true but will snoop around. Fairly sure the celts do this religously. Also FWIW Clyde was saying to do exactly this (not sure how you feel about him; but I think he's pretty smart), that it was a straightaway shot and teams need to practice this, including looking up at the shot clock on the opposing end of the floor so you can choose your spot when to foul

And you're absolutely right it was a switch, and it was right to switch. I was super happy to see KP on hayward and imagined him just sticking his arms up to make the shot more difficult. when he jumped up to block the shot, i was like good grief

Following up:

Here's an article from someone who sounds smart who did some analysis of college hoops; the net result is there was a statistically insignificant difference between the intentional foul strategy versus not
https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/intentionally-fouling-up-3-points-the-first-comprehensive-cbb-analysis/

Both a two sample t-test of proportion and a Chi-squared test fail to reject the null hypothesis that there is a difference in winning percentage between the two strategies. In this sample, teams that did not foul won slightly more often. For the less statistically inclined, this means that there is no significant difference between the two strategies.

then later after looking at it more closely (ends up with same result):
Teams that intentionally foul allowed the opponent to score three seven times out of 48. Teams that did not allowed the opponent to score three points 93 out of 395 times. While teams that did intentionally foul gave up three points a smaller proportion of the time than teams that did, the difference was not statistically significant (p values of .067 and .113 for a two sample t-test and a Chi-squared test). That means that in 2009-2010, teams that were down three points at the end of the game scored the necessary points at rates that did not differ based on which strategy the leading team pursued.

But on the other hand, here is another guys who says it's 4x better to intentionally foul (again based on stats) and on NBA data
http://www.82games.com/lawhorn.htm

The basic conclusion we come to is this:
With time running out (final possession), and a 3-point lead, the defensive team is roughly 4 times more likely to "blow the lead" and have to play overtime if they choose to play defense, rather than foul in the waning seconds of the game.

(note that immediately after he makes this statement -- which would strongly suggest to intentionally foul -- he then lays out why it might be a bad idea -- i.e., guy ends up fouling in the act of shooting a three pointer)

So my own take on this is either approach is legitimate and probably comes down to coach's predilection and team personnel. But the one thing is crystal clear -- you shouldn't foul him in the act at that point. Whatever strategy you use, you have to make sure to avoid that because the odds are much higher. (the above article says there's only a 20% hit rate for a 3 pointer with clock running down; odds of hitting three free throws is much higher)

Nalod wrote:I think Knicks1969 has finally gotten it!

It takes time.

Post of the year.

Jmpasq wrote:

nixluva wrote:Here's the thing... This isn't so much Fish finally getting anything! This is the way they wanted MELO to play PERIOD! This is what they talked about from day one. MELO had to learn the system and trust his teammates! They haven't had to change anything but rather MELO had to take charge of the role! Phil had this in mind from day one. It's just finally taking hold. MELO is embracing the role.

All Fisher has done is shortened the bench some. The biggest reasons for the Knicks improved play is
1. Melo playing like Lebron James lite. For his usage Melo should be averaging at least 5 assists a game. He is finally on that pace. Besides that his defense has been so much better

2. Robin Lopez is playing well after having 9 games of double digit points in his first 34 games he has had 7 in his last 10. His rebounding has also improved
First 34 games 2 games of double digit rebounds, while 4 in the last 10. Overall first 34 games 8.4 ppg 6 Rebounds , Last 10 12.7 ppg 7.6 rebounds.

3. Affalo has averaged 18 ppg the last 10 while hovering around 13 the rest of the season.

4. Derrick Wiliams , This guy needs to have consistent minutes. He can provide instant energy and scoring punch from the bench. When Melo doesn't is shooting poorly , Williams needs to be on the floor to pick up the slack.

That's all??? Just shortend the bench and magic happens? There is a very long process of learning that exists with all of phils team. Transposing that to this team and the Triangle system Ie does not surprise me that improvement from within was inevitable but I do caution its a work in progress and it will be inconsistent. Team is a work in progress but its not a straight line up.

Dwill can get consistant minutes when he plays consistently. Melo has rounded out his game beyond scoring. This shyt is hard.

At the same time we need not give up on KOQ either as he hopefull will "get it".

This is not just fisher but the organization and all that goes into making decisions. My only concern about fish is does he really have his heart into being a top flight coach and put in the work. its not a knock on the guy, its that he has money and is he motivated to see it thru. If not, he'll leave. I have no reason to suspect any of this. Its just that players once reached a level of wealth are not hungry. If he is, he'll be just fine.

Nalod wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Nalod wrote:I think Knicks1969 has finally gotten it!

It takes time.

How confident are you of this??

He a good dude, but he one of those guys goes on results, not process. I mean since we not accountable we could have traded RoPez low, fired Fisher and of course exiled Jose. But the process of Jose and Melo shaking the rust and others getting to know each and the system is lengthy. Not everyone gets that.

Confident? Naw, first time we lose two in a row he'll have the "feeling" and want Luke Walton here thinking he'll bring that GSW magic with him.

Lol....y'all are so silly. I am more then happy with what I have seen since after the Utah game. Fisher grew as a coach and stopped the experiments. I still have issues with Jose as a starter, mainly because I believe Gallo can do much better. But I would have never been a Fisher hater if the dude was not terrible early on. He now knows Carmelo is our best PG; which I have been stating since the start of the season. He now also knows that Williams is a studd and needs to share the floor with Carmelo and KP; as well as, getting more than the lousy 8 minutes he was getting early on.

Cartman718 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Nalod wrote:I think Knicks1969 has finally gotten it!

It takes time.

How confident are you of this??

He a good dude, but he one of those guys goes on results, not process. I mean since we not accountable we could have traded RoPez low, fired Fisher and of course exiled Jose. But the process of Jose and Melo shaking the rust and others getting to know each and the system is lengthy. Not everyone gets that.

Confident? Naw, first time we lose two in a row he'll have the "feeling" and want Luke Walton here thinking he'll bring that GSW magic with him.

Lol....y'all are so silly. I am more then happy with what I have seen since after the Utah game. Fisher grew as a coach and stopped the experiments. I still have issues with Jose as a starter, mainly because I believe Gallo can do much better. But I would have never been a Fisher hater if the dude was not terrible early on. He now knows Carmelo is our best PG; which I have been stating since the start of the season. He now also knows that Williams is a studd and needs to share the floor with Carmelo and KP; as well as, getting more than the lousy 8 minutes he was getting early on.

disagree completely.
1. jose is the best starting PG on this squad right now
2. he makes the offense click
3. he has no problems being vocal
4. chemistry seems better with him on the floor
5. defense obviously is worse at his position, but do you really see Gallo being a vocal leader on the floor? the guy is a mouse when it comes to barking at Melo.

+1

For me Gallo's only plus on Jose is his defense, and I've been down on Gallo's defense recently, just doesn't seem right but I can't articulate it. Same goes for Lance.

OK, Gallo also much better rebounder.

Nalod wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Nalod wrote:I think Knicks1969 has finally gotten it!

It takes time.

How confident are you of this??

He a good dude, but he one of those guys goes on results, not process. I mean since we not accountable we could have traded RoPez low, fired Fisher and of course exiled Jose. But the process of Jose and Melo shaking the rust and others getting to know each and the system is lengthy. Not everyone gets that.

Confident? Naw, first time we lose two in a row he'll have the "feeling" and want Luke Walton here thinking he'll bring that GSW magic with him.

Knicks1969 wrote:

martin wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Nalod wrote:I think Knicks1969 has finally gotten it!

It takes time.

How confident are you of this??

He a good dude, but he one of those guys goes on results, not process. I mean since we not accountable we could have traded RoPez low, fired Fisher and of course exiled Jose. But the process of Jose and Melo shaking the rust and others getting to know each and the system is lengthy. Not everyone gets that.

Confident? Naw, first time we lose two in a row he'll have the "feeling" and want Luke Walton here thinking he'll bring that GSW magic with him.

Lol....y'all are so silly. I am more then happy with what I have seen since after the Utah game. Fisher grew as a coach and stopped the experiments. I still have issues with Jose as a starter, mainly because I believe Gallo can do much better. But I would have never been a Fisher hater if the dude was not terrible early on. He now knows Carmelo is our best PG; which I have been stating since the start of the season. He now also knows that Williams is a studd and needs to share the floor with Carmelo and KP; as well as, getting more than the lousy 8 minutes he was getting early on.

disagree completely.
1. jose is the best starting PG on this squad right now
2. he makes the offense click
3. he has no problems being vocal
4. chemistry seems better with him on the floor
5. defense obviously is worse at his position, but do you really see Gallo being a vocal leader on the floor? the guy is a mouse when it comes to barking at Melo.

+1

For me Gallo's only plus on Jose is his defense, and I've been down on Gallo's defense recently, just doesn't seem right but I can't articulate it. Same goes for Lance.

OK, Gallo also much better rebounder.

What did happen during the Utah and Philly games? Specifically,once Gallo replaced Calderon in the back court? Suddenly our defense improved drastically. Even Clyde kept on asking to insert Gallo to stop the bleeding. Some of you are really not looking at the games as you should. Just because a dude is vocal does not mean he is better. Gallo does know the triangle. With a much better floor leader in Carmelo, Jose is obsolete

1+1=5