Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Bpm and vorp have Melo ahead of Drummond.

melo's numbers are really hurt because of the way he started. Now that he is in a groove he is clearly playing better than Drummond.

So yes you can look at the whole season but playing well at the right time makes a difference when it comes to perception and voting windows.

And, if melo gets his TS back to his average, his WS48 will trend much higher if he stay ThisMelo

This is how a fan speaks more than an objective outsider. IMO Melo's playing great now and I'm happy to see that. But you can't just ignore a whole month or more of the season, unless you're going to remove the 20 worst games from every player.
Almost all the stats would actually say Love, Bosh, Millsap and maybe even a few other forwards have had better seasons than both Melo and Drummond actually.

I am a fan but outsiders are also fans of the all star game. This is not an MVP vote, its an allstar vote. Maybe my use of "deserving" was wrong.

Also, do you not think that its more important to play well to close the season than to start the season? Are all games equal? Interesting question? How about the first 10 minutes of a game or the last 10 minutes? Are they the same? Some stat purists may say yes but I don't think they are the same.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Bpm and vorp have Melo ahead of Drummond.

melo's numbers are really hurt because of the way he started. Now that he is in a groove he is clearly playing better than Drummond.

So yes you can look at the whole season but playing well at the right time makes a difference when it comes to perception and voting windows.

And, if melo gets his TS back to his average, his WS48 will trend much higher if he stay ThisMelo

This is how a fan speaks more than an objective outsider. IMO Melo's playing great now and I'm happy to see that. But you can't just ignore a whole month or more of the season, unless you're going to remove the 20 worst games from every player.
Almost all the stats would actually say Love, Bosh, Millsap and maybe even a few other forwards have had better seasons than both Melo and Drummond actually.

I am a fan but outsiders are also fans of the all star game. This is not an MVP vote, its an allstar vote. Maybe my use of "deserving" was wrong.

Also, do you not think that its more important to play well to close the season than to start the season? Are all games equal? Interesting question? How about the first 10 minutes of a game or the last 10 minutes? Are they the same? Some stat purists may say yes but I don't think they are the same.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Bpm and vorp have Melo ahead of Drummond.

melo's numbers are really hurt because of the way he started. Now that he is in a groove he is clearly playing better than Drummond.

So yes you can look at the whole season but playing well at the right time makes a difference when it comes to perception and voting windows.

And, if melo gets his TS back to his average, his WS48 will trend much higher if he stay ThisMelo

This is how a fan speaks more than an objective outsider. IMO Melo's playing great now and I'm happy to see that. But you can't just ignore a whole month or more of the season, unless you're going to remove the 20 worst games from every player.
Almost all the stats would actually say Love, Bosh, Millsap and maybe even a few other forwards have had better seasons than both Melo and Drummond actually.

I am a fan but outsiders are also fans of the all star game. This is not an MVP vote, its an allstar vote. Maybe my use of "deserving" was wrong.

Also, do you not think that its more important to play well to close the season than to start the season? Are all games equal? Interesting question? How about the first 10 minutes of a game or the last 10 minutes? Are they the same? Some stat purists may say yes but I don't think they are the same.

Right now, we're talking about middle of the season vs. start of the season (not closing the season). In the standings, every game is the same. In terms of attracting FAs and satisfying fans, I assume more recent games matter more. More recent games are also likely more predictive of how the team will do in the playoffs than earlier games. But for any kind of season-long award, I would weigh each game equally.

so that is the point. The allstar game is mid season and for voting, these games count much more than the first games.

ChuckBuck wrote:Drummond won't win the popularity vote, but dude definitely deserves to start 1000% over Melo based on merit.

Guy leads the league with 33 double doubles, rebounding, and has his team poised for postseason basketball.

Detroit is 2 games above the Knicks, not enough of a difference to use in this argument. And Reggie Jackson is just as critical to their early season success. Drummond puts up great numbers, but is poor defensively. Drummond deserves to be in the all-star game, but the way Melo has played the past month, he is far more deserving. Much more critical to his team's success, as you saw the other night.

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Now holds a 7,000 lead over Drummond.

who cares? it's a popularity contest driven by the masses.

although also flawed, but less so, the all-nba team placement by contrast is a more significant achievement.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Bpm and vorp have Melo ahead of Drummond.

melo's numbers are really hurt because of the way he started. Now that he is in a groove he is clearly playing better than Drummond.

So yes you can look at the whole season but playing well at the right time makes a difference when it comes to perception and voting windows.

And, if melo gets his TS back to his average, his WS48 will trend much higher if he stay ThisMelo

This is how a fan speaks more than an objective outsider. IMO Melo's playing great now and I'm happy to see that. But you can't just ignore a whole month or more of the season, unless you're going to remove the 20 worst games from every player.
Almost all the stats would actually say Love, Bosh, Millsap and maybe even a few other forwards have had better seasons than both Melo and Drummond actually.

I am a fan but outsiders are also fans of the all star game. This is not an MVP vote, its an allstar vote. Maybe my use of "deserving" was wrong.

Also, do you not think that its more important to play well to close the season than to start the season? Are all games equal? Interesting question? How about the first 10 minutes of a game or the last 10 minutes? Are they the same? Some stat purists may say yes but I don't think they are the same.

Right now, we're talking about middle of the season vs. start of the season (not closing the season). In the standings, every game is the same. In terms of attracting FAs and satisfying fans, I assume more recent games matter more. More recent games are also likely more predictive of how the team will do in the playoffs than earlier games. But for any kind of season-long award, I would weigh each game equally.

so that is the point. The allstar game is mid season and for voting, these games count much more than the first games.

Are we discussing voting or team impact? You can pretty much print off the PPG leaders and that's usually who will get the votes.

lol ain't that the truth

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:he is much more worthy than drummond ... its not close anymore

Do you still give a lot of weight to win shares?

I do but Melo's is trending up pretty steadily and there are other factors as well.

How is the trend now?
Seriously, the fan in me was as excited as you were about the trend before but the statistician in me was saying not to look at a small sample trend. His advanced stats are not going to look impressive unless he gets his shooting percentages much higher.

His passing has been great. That means a new mindset which is all I care about or want from him.

Now, of course he needs to start hitting his shots and if he does, great. If not ... it is what it is.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:he is much more worthy than drummond ... its not close anymore

Do you still give a lot of weight to win shares?

I do but Melo's is trending up pretty steadily and there are other factors as well.

How is the trend now?
Seriously, the fan in me was as excited as you were about the trend before but the statistician in me was saying not to look at a small sample trend. His advanced stats are not going to look impressive unless he gets his shooting percentages much higher.

His passing has been great. That means a new mindset which is all I care about or want from him.

Now, of course he needs to start hitting his shots and if he does, great. If not ... it is what it is.

OK but would you vote for him for the all-star game over other forwards who have good mindsets and have win shares around .200?

only as a homer.