dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Mixed emotions about Thomas's next contract. He's playing great. When Thomas started the season, he was flailing away offensively. Endless motor, but a bit out of control at times. Lance has really gotten his game together.

If you "overpay" for Thomas, you have to hope this wasn't only a contract year performance. Not overly concerned about it, but its something to keep in mind.

When I think of Thomas's value to the Knicks, I look back to Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley each getting (by trade or signing) around 7 mill per year for 6-7 years. In today's dollars that's somewhere between 9-10 million a year.

No I dont want Lance to get paid that much, at the same time, would like to see Lance paid for his production, and the hard work he has put in to get to this point. Just have to hope there is enough cap room to make Thomas a good offer. 2017 to keep in mind.

you do realize that scott layden was the gm? the same guy who awarded allan houston 100 million?

My point (poorly made as it was) was that we were willing to overpay that much for these guys, whatever Thomas gets will be reasonable by comparison. Thats why I emphasized their contracts. Never would have signed those guys without the Utah connection. Great way to build a team.

On Houston and his deal, that Im pinning on Dolan.

layden i absolutely HATED and still do. cronyism at its absolute worst and yes you're probably right that houston and his 100 million dollars are here because of dolan. i can't stand houston either. as a matter of fact there are an awful lot of knicks players and management to hate over the years.

One of the things I really hated was the few times Layden was available for interviews, his answer was very often "I like our team". Didn't matter how bad the product was on the floor, he would say the same thing over and over again.

To make things worse Isiah started saying the same thing. Hearing "I like our team" for all those years was like fingernails across a chalkboard.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:Love how Lance is performing but the Knicks need to keep the salary cap space for a better player. Over the next 2 season Phil got chances to fill this team out into a championship caliber roster and unfortunately guys like Lance will be on the fence unless they take low dollar amount, like $3M or less. Knicks also got a Westchester guy who seems to be rounding into a decent player who would fill the same low cost role: Darin Atkins.

Saw a little of Atkins the other day and wasn't very impressed. He brought up the ball very casually, got stripped, gave up a bucket then started yelling at someone down court. It was just a glimpse, but Atkins doesnt look like he has the same motor that Thomas does. Thats a big part of what got him into the rotation. What do you see in Atkins that makes him just as good an option as Lance? Have not seen much of him.

Admittedly I have seen nothing of Atkins, just been reading the DLeague articles Crush and others post and a video here and there. All I know is that he has been recognized as a high level prospect in the DLeague.

If Lance didnt leave everything on the floor, I wouldnt want the Knicks to make a competitive offer. Sometimes the difference between winning and losing isn't skill but who wants it more, and I believe Lance has been that type of player this season.

Have no idea if it will last, but I do believe he is worth spending a little more than what you would normally pay for someone with his career stats. Wouldnt mind paying a little extra on 2 years, an extended look, with maybe a bigger payday to come.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:Love how Lance is performing but the Knicks need to keep the salary cap space for a better player. Over the next 2 season Phil got chances to fill this team out into a championship caliber roster and unfortunately guys like Lance will be on the fence unless they take low dollar amount, like $3M or less. Knicks also got a Westchester guy who seems to be rounding into a decent player who would fill the same low cost role: Darin Atkins.

Saw a little of Atkins the other day and wasn't very impressed. He brought up the ball very casually, got stripped, gave up a bucket then started yelling at someone down court. It was just a glimpse, but Atkins doesnt look like he has the same motor that Thomas does. Thats a big part of what got him into the rotation. What do you see in Atkins that makes him just as good an option as Lance? Have not seen much of him.

Admittedly I have seen nothing of Atkins, just been reading the DLeague articles Crush and others post and a video here and there. All I know is that he has been recognized as a high level prospect in the DLeague.

If Lance didnt leave everything on the floor, I wouldnt want the Knicks to make a competitive offer. Sometimes the difference between winning and losing isn't skill but who wants it more, and I believe Lance has been that type of player this season.

Have no idea if it will last, but I do believe he is worth spending a little more than what you would normally pay for someone with his career stats. Wouldnt mind paying a little extra on 2 years, an extended look, with maybe a bigger payday to come.

That's a fair take. I'm just not willing to spend extra on a bench guy two years out when Chris Paul and Westbrook come up. 1 year deal that locks in his Bird Rights or whatever and doesn't get in the way of cap space in the next year... I'm up for that.

Cap management over the next 2 years will go a long way to seeing how this franchise sets its course for the next 5-10. Phil adds the likes of Batum and Westbrook over the next 2 while keeping the bench solid will set this organization up for Championship possibility and the KP years.

Knicks need an alpha all-star in the guard position IMHO to put them over the top.

yellowboy90 wrote:I doubt what Lance get will get in the way of the Knicks 2017 FA plans. The cap is projected to jump again and the Knicks should be in great position finacially.

Also, Paul will be 32 in 2017 so I'm not sure if he is a good target

so let's not get lazy in our assumptions. If you sign Lance to a 2 year contract that spans into 2017, even with the expanded salary cap, his contract would indeed get in the way. My assumption is that the Knicks spend on an upgrade free agent this summer in the space of $17-19M.

Can't just go willy-nilly and sign guys. Lance would be trade-able enough IF he keeps up both his progress and output, but why not sign him to a smart deal and be able to keep him AND sign a big name.

martin wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I doubt what Lance get will get in the way of the Knicks 2017 FA plans. The cap is projected to jump again and the Knicks should be in great position finacially.

Also, Paul will be 32 in 2017 so I'm not sure if he is a good target

so let's not get lazy in our assumptions. If you sign Lance to a 2 year contract that spans into 2017, even with the expanded salary cap, his contract would indeed get in the way. My assumption is that the Knicks spend on an upgrade free agent this summer in the space of $17-19M.

Can't just go willy-nilly and sign guys. Lance would be trade-able enough IF he keeps up both his progress and output, but why not sign him to a smart deal and be able to keep him AND sign a big name.

You try to sign every player to a smart deal but sometimes it doesn't work that way. It would've been smart to get a team option on AA and DW's contract. They tried low balling Shved(which I agreed with) and then up it to the 2.8 exception but he instead chose to sign in Russia for $3.4m.

Regardless, what big FA they sign in the future the team will need depth and $5-7m will be the new $3-5m bench player contract.

mreinman wrote:I would rather pay LT 5-6 million that pay batum 18-20.

If we pay max money we need to get a real max. Batum is a very good player but no way near a real max player.

18-20m is not the max. The max will be around $27m for him. I'd pay both and call it a good day.

martin wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I doubt what Lance get will get in the way of the Knicks 2017 FA plans. The cap is projected to jump again and the Knicks should be in great position finacially.

Also, Paul will be 32 in 2017 so I'm not sure if he is a good target

so let's not get lazy in our assumptions. If you sign Lance to a 2 year contract that spans into 2017, even with the expanded salary cap, his contract would indeed get in the way. My assumption is that the Knicks spend on an upgrade free agent this summer in the space of $17-19M.

Can't just go willy-nilly and sign guys. Lance would be trade-able enough IF he keeps up both his progress and output, but why not sign him to a smart deal and be able to keep him AND sign a big name.

That would be ideal. If he looks like he'll require too much I hope the knicks look to Batum with that cap space. He's a great defender, passer, and scores off of shooting 3's running over picks. He could be deadly in the triangle. In my mind Thomas is eating off cause he is a system player. I think Batum could make all the shots thomas has and defend at that level too, but the overall talent of Batum is higher than Thomas. The only real perk for keeping thomas over going after Batum is salary and age.

If they could get Batum and give Thomas a raise that would be even better because it would allow both guys to be more aggressive on defense when on the court.

Though on the flip Idk if Fisher could handle a legit 10 man rotation, he had to go to 9 to figure out the best minute distribution.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Mixed emotions about Thomas's next contract. He's playing great. When Thomas started the season, he was flailing away offensively. Endless motor, but a bit out of control at times. Lance has really gotten his game together.

If you "overpay" for Thomas, you have to hope this wasn't only a contract year performance. Not overly concerned about it, but its something to keep in mind.

When I think of Thomas's value to the Knicks, I look back to Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley each getting (by trade or signing) around 7 mill per year for 6-7 years. In today's dollars that's somewhere between 9-10 million a year.

No I dont want Lance to get paid that much, at the same time, would like to see Lance paid for his production, and the hard work he has put in to get to this point. Just have to hope there is enough cap room to make Thomas a good offer. 2017 to keep in mind.

you do realize that scott layden was the gm? the same guy who awarded allan houston 100 million?

My point (poorly made as it was) was that we were willing to overpay that much for these guys, whatever Thomas gets will be reasonable by comparison. Thats why I emphasized their contracts. Never would have signed those guys without the Utah connection. Great way to build a team.

On Houston and his deal, that Im pinning on Dolan.

layden i absolutely HATED and still do. cronyism at its absolute worst and yes you're probably right that houston and his 100 million dollars are here because of dolan. i can't stand houston either. as a matter of fact there are an awful lot of knicks players and management to hate over the years.

Wow, something we completely agree on.

Trading Spree for ex-Utah Keith Van Horn was probably the thing that made me hate Layden the most. KVH, who ended up being Tim Thomas. Who we then gave away for nothing and got back for nothing. So he traded away one of the most electrifying, two-way players the franchise ever saw for what amounted to less than league flotsam.

Yes, I'm still bitter.