fishmike wrote:Fisher can coach

The triangle looked pretty phucking modern against one of the leagues best defenses tonight. 58% FGs. Damn.

Robin Lopez did things tonight he's done all year. Tonight he just did them the best and most often. He does things Monroe could NEVER do and will NEVER do. As a Knick fan of the 90s I biased regarding what Lopez brings, I admit that.. but I value this greatly.

Lopez and KP and Melo have the frontcourt makings of an elite contender. I just hope it doesn't take too long, but as early as next year this trio could really be amazing. Great mix of balance, size and length.

Anyone see Bosh hold Jose after the game like a child he hasn't seen for a year? Jose is a BIG part of this team chemistry. Not every dude is star, but everyone knows Jose plays his ass off. He's a man's pro, and he's a legit floor general. He's limited, everyone knows that, but open your eyes and watch this guy. He keeps these guy's heads up.

AA, DWill, Galloway, Grant.. we have some nice role players.

Right now, today, Melo is healthy and he is a top 10 player in this league.

I think this is pretty spot on on all accounts. Lopez has upped his game--playing like a 7-1 265 pd C. I love the way he has played at the rim recently some of the footwork last night was not even seen this year. Our collective size is putting pressure on other teams in the halfcourt. Id like to see us trade Freddette for Grant for now. I think that back up PG spot is the weak point as of now.

GustavBahler wrote:I believe the jury is still out on Fisher. Id like to see how he finishes the season, and if we make the playoffs. Not sold yet on bringing him back next season although it seems likely. Im not suggesting that KP and Grant are being hurt by Fisher as coach, KP is a ROY candidate. I am suggesting that I dont want to see Fisher next season if (after the all star break) Fisher cant get a good run out of the healthiest, most talented roster, in many years. I want the best coach for our potential superstar big man, and Im still not sure that its Fisher. I do like the job he has done over the last few games though.

As for Lopez, was saying that I'd rather have Lopez than Monroe before the signing. Especially in the playoffs where the game slows down, and someone with Rolo's skill set becomes very important.

This is still just the beginning of the process for the whole team. The longer they stay in this the better they should get in terms of chemistry and execution. They will all be on the same page as we're starting to see. What is already starting to happen is that they are all learning when to attack the defense in this offense rather than just robotically and aimlessly passing the ball. They're reading the defense and making cuts and it's not about specific plays but just playing smart BBall. That is the TRUE goal of all this Triangle stuff. Teach them the basics and Fundamentals and eventually they can improve their BB IQ and think at a higher level.

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I believe the jury is still out on Fisher. Id like to see how he finishes the season, and if we make the playoffs. Not sold yet on bringing him back next season although it seems likely. Im not suggesting that KP and Grant are being hurt by Fisher as coach, KP is a ROY candidate. I am suggesting that I dont want to see Fisher next season if (after the all star break) Fisher cant get a good run out of the healthiest, most talented roster, in many years. I want the best coach for our potential superstar big man, and Im still not sure that its Fisher. I do like the job he has done over the last few games though.

As for Lopez, was saying that I'd rather have Lopez than Monroe before the signing. Especially in the playoffs where the game slows down, and someone with Rolo's skill set becomes very important.

This might be the healthiest, most talented roster we've had in many years but that's not saying much cause we've had some absolutely horrible teams and this team still isn't even close to being a really good team and Phil is still gonna do some work to it and when we do get new players it will put us a step back again cause those new players will then have to learn the system and will have to learn how to play next to each other again. I would love for Phil to get lucky and make a nice trade around this deadline and then finish it off in the off season with another piece or two but it will probably take two years for this team to be Phil's finished product and ready to be the team that we're planning on sticking with for however long.

This team is good enough to compete with some of the best teams out there, thats something we havent seen in a long time. With the 54 win season, most of the winning had been done in the first half of the season.

All I want is for Fisher to show what he can do with this roster now that he is starting to get a better handle on who he wants to play and when. I dont buy at all this notion that we have to wait until Fisher has a genuine contender to have his competency judged as coach. If he isnt the right man for the job, it wont matter what system is employed. Not really looking forward to new players having to go through learning this system anyway, no one says this system is easy to learn.

I want to see what Fisher can do with what he has now. Plenty of games left this season to go on a run, show what he can do, because I haven't seen enough to say that he is the answer at coach going forward.

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I believe the jury is still out on Fisher. Id like to see how he finishes the season, and if we make the playoffs. Not sold yet on bringing him back next season although it seems likely. Im not suggesting that KP and Grant are being hurt by Fisher as coach, KP is a ROY candidate. I am suggesting that I dont want to see Fisher next season if (after the all star break) Fisher cant get a good run out of the healthiest, most talented roster, in many years. I want the best coach for our potential superstar big man, and Im still not sure that its Fisher. I do like the job he has done over the last few games though.

As for Lopez, was saying that I'd rather have Lopez than Monroe before the signing. Especially in the playoffs where the game slows down, and someone with Rolo's skill set becomes very important.

This might be the healthiest, most talented roster we've had in many years but that's not saying much cause we've had some absolutely horrible teams and this team still isn't even close to being a really good team and Phil is still gonna do some work to it and when we do get new players it will put us a step back again cause those new players will then have to learn the system and will have to learn how to play next to each other again. I would love for Phil to get lucky and make a nice trade around this deadline and then finish it off in the off season with another piece or two but it will probably take two years for this team to be Phil's finished product and ready to be the team that we're planning on sticking with for however long.

This team is good enough to compete with some of the best teams out there, thats something we havent seen in a long time. With the 54 win season, most of the winning had been done in the first half of the season.

All I want is for Fisher to show what he can do with this roster now that he is starting to get a better handle on who he wants to play and when. I dont buy at all this notion that we have to wait until Fisher has a genuine contender to have his competency judged as coach. If he isnt the right man for the job, it wont matter what system is employed. Not really looking forward to new players having to go through learning this system anyway, no one says this system is easy to learn.

I want to see what Fisher can do with what he has now. Plenty of games left this season to go on a run, show what he can do, because I haven't seen enough to say that he is the answer at coach going forward.

Yeah i don't think anyone is saying he's the guy for the job yet although some have already made their judgement that he isn't the guy for the job, but i'm actually hoping we make a move to get a new guard in here that can bring a different role to the team. I hear you when you say this team is good enough to compete with the better teams out there but this team isn't good enough to beat the better teams in a series. I'm excited for what we're seeing from this team though but i know Phil is gonna be working the phone hard to make a trade to make us better.

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I believe the jury is still out on Fisher. Id like to see how he finishes the season, and if we make the playoffs. Not sold yet on bringing him back next season although it seems likely. Im not suggesting that KP and Grant are being hurt by Fisher as coach, KP is a ROY candidate. I am suggesting that I dont want to see Fisher next season if (after the all star break) Fisher cant get a good run out of the healthiest, most talented roster, in many years. I want the best coach for our potential superstar big man, and Im still not sure that its Fisher. I do like the job he has done over the last few games though.

As for Lopez, was saying that I'd rather have Lopez than Monroe before the signing. Especially in the playoffs where the game slows down, and someone with Rolo's skill set becomes very important.

This might be the healthiest, most talented roster we've had in many years but that's not saying much cause we've had some absolutely horrible teams and this team still isn't even close to being a really good team and Phil is still gonna do some work to it and when we do get new players it will put us a step back again cause those new players will then have to learn the system and will have to learn how to play next to each other again. I would love for Phil to get lucky and make a nice trade around this deadline and then finish it off in the off season with another piece or two but it will probably take two years for this team to be Phil's finished product and ready to be the team that we're planning on sticking with for however long.

This team is good enough to compete with some of the best teams out there, thats something we havent seen in a long time. With the 54 win season, most of the winning had been done in the first half of the season.

All I want is for Fisher to show what he can do with this roster now that he is starting to get a better handle on who he wants to play and when. I dont buy at all this notion that we have to wait until Fisher has a genuine contender to have his competency judged as coach. If he isnt the right man for the job, it wont matter what system is employed. Not really looking forward to new players having to go through learning this system anyway, no one says this system is easy to learn.

I want to see what Fisher can do with what he has now. Plenty of games left this season to go on a run, show what he can do, because I haven't seen enough to say that he is the answer at coach going forward.

Yeah i don't think anyone is saying he's the guy for the job yet although some have already made their judgement that he isn't the guy for the job, but i'm actually hoping we make a move to get a new guard in here that can bring a different role to the team. I hear you when you say this team is good enough to compete with the better teams out there but this team isn't good enough to beat the better teams in a series. I'm excited for what we're seeing from this team though but i know Phil is gonna be working the phone hard to make a trade to make us better.

This part bears repeating, not suggesting that this squad can go to the Finals, not at this point, but they're good enough to beat some elite teams during the regular season, maybe upset a team in the first round. There is enough talent on this squad IMO for Fisher to show that he is the right man for the job. Melo isnt getting any younger and I would really like to get the most out of the years he has left.

Let him continue to grow. He still has 3yrs left on his deal. If he keeps trending upwards the continuity at head coach will be very good for this team. This team has really good chemistry. They really like and stick up for each other. Complete 180 from the past few seasons. Of course Fish needs to keep it up but I think he will

Let him continue to grow. He still has 3yrs left on his deal. If he keeps trending upwards the continuity at head coach will be very good for this team. This team has really good chemistry. They really like and stick up for each other. Complete 180 from the past few seasons. Of course Fish needs to keep it up but I think he will

nixluva wrote:Earlier in the season I was trying to mention that a player like RoLo would need time to adjust to being used more than he's EVER been used before. He has been slowly getting better at playing his role in the offense. I felt that if a player has any talent and commits to working on the role he has in this offense he can eventually improve a LOT and function at a high level. A key part of the reason is that the ROLES ARE CLEAR in this offense. You end up doing many of the exact same things over and over and they eventually become 2nd nature and you get faster mentally and sharper.

This is still just the beginning of the process for the whole team. The longer they stay in this the better they should get in terms of chemistry and execution. They will all be on the same page as we're starting to see. What is already starting to happen is that they are all learning when to attack the defense in this offense rather than just robotically and aimlessly passing the ball. They're reading the defense and making cuts and it's not about specific plays but just playing smart BBall. That is the TRUE goal of all this Triangle stuff. Teach them the basics and Fundamentals and eventually they can improve their BB IQ and think at a higher level.

Great points. Agree with it with one caveat. I don't have stats to back it up but besides the change in minutes it seems Rolo's role has been adjusted. They don't seem to be running the triangle through him in the high post like they were a month back. I think he has benefited from that.

Chandler wrote:

nixluva wrote:Earlier in the season I was trying to mention that a player like RoLo would need time to adjust to being used more than he's EVER been used before. He has been slowly getting better at playing his role in the offense. I felt that if a player has any talent and commits to working on the role he has in this offense he can eventually improve a LOT and function at a high level. A key part of the reason is that the ROLES ARE CLEAR in this offense. You end up doing many of the exact same things over and over and they eventually become 2nd nature and you get faster mentally and sharper.

This is still just the beginning of the process for the whole team. The longer they stay in this the better they should get in terms of chemistry and execution. They will all be on the same page as we're starting to see. What is already starting to happen is that they are all learning when to attack the defense in this offense rather than just robotically and aimlessly passing the ball. They're reading the defense and making cuts and it's not about specific plays but just playing smart BBall. That is the TRUE goal of all this Triangle stuff. Teach them the basics and Fundamentals and eventually they can improve their BB IQ and think at a higher level.

Great points. Agree with it with one caveat. I don't have stats to back it up but besides the change in minutes it seems Rolo's role has been adjusted. They don't seem to be running the triangle through him in the high post like they were a month back. I think he has benefited from that.

Yeah, it seems like they are getting him the ball much deeper in the post, as opposed to in the high post where he'd turn the ball over a lot. He's a scoring threat from the low post and can still pass pretty well. He was not a scoring threat from the high post, so I think the defense knew he'd be passing and it led to a lot of turnovers.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I believe the jury is still out on Fisher. Id like to see how he finishes the season, and if we make the playoffs. Not sold yet on bringing him back next season although it seems likely. Im not suggesting that KP and Grant are being hurt by Fisher as coach, KP is a ROY candidate. I am suggesting that I dont want to see Fisher next season if (after the all star break) Fisher cant get a good run out of the healthiest, most talented roster, in many years. I want the best coach for our potential superstar big man, and Im still not sure that its Fisher. I do like the job he has done over the last few games though.

As for Lopez, was saying that I'd rather have Lopez than Monroe before the signing. Especially in the playoffs where the game slows down, and someone with Rolo's skill set becomes very important.

So I could never understand this type of reasoning. A team, just like a rotation, can't get consistency and eventually get better with constant flip-flopping.

The Knicks have been thru how many coaches and GM's over the past 15 years? You don't run an organization like that and expect good results. For me this is year 1 for Fish and Phil and the rebuild start point. If you put unreal expectations at the cost of bringing him back next year, nothing good will happen, mostly you'll just get stressed out. BTW, I am OK with what you are saying but I do know that Phil aint gonna flip Fish for another coach unless he goes winless from all-star until end of year, it just ain't happening.

We had D'Antoni for how long before he bailed on us? Did MDA have enough time to show something? Dolan's itchy trigger finger a decade ago, shouldnt keep us from finding the best coach available.

Woodson by the time he left, wasnt even trying to coach, did you want him to get 4 years to sort things out? I sure didnt. There is more than half a season for Fisher to show that he can win some games, I dont have a set number, just want to see him get the most out of the talent he has. If he can do that now that the team is starting to gel, then great. If not, Id like to see us to a proper search, and if someone better is available then hire them.

I think you can answer your own questions well enough.

For any organization to move forward, you need to be on the same plan from top to bottom. GM to coach to players. I don't think the MDA to Woodson years were the hallmark of consistency. At all. Coaches fault? Players fault? I say the organization as a whole was caca.

Right now we got a good thing doing and I'd be hard pressed to just throw out a main cog cause of an arbitrary all-star to end of year time period.

Also, your assumption is that another coach is magically out there and that that coach has the midas touch.