If Fisher took over a 55 win team, how can anyone say what would have happened?
You do realize Alvin Gentry was his top deputy last year?

our back court is awful. Simply awful. I know some of you want an impactful trade to starphuch this season and have Thibs transpose the defensive schemes he implimented with KG and the Celts, or with the Bulls.

Don't have long term hope? no reason to be wildly enthusiastic. What is interesting is why some of you think the season is a disappointment?
If most thought 32-39 wins was doable, why the sudden downer? I mean, if you think you'll lose more than win, its kind of what happens?

Nalod wrote:If phil coached, what system would he run?

If Fisher took over a 55 win team, how can anyone say what would have happened?
You do realize Alvin Gentry was his top deputy last year?

our back court is awful. Simply awful. I know some of you want an impactful trade to starphuch this season and have Thibs transpose the defensive schemes he implimented with KG and the Celts, or with the Bulls.

Don't have long term hope? no reason to be wildly enthusiastic. What is interesting is why some of you think the season is a disappointment?
If most thought 32-39 wins was doable, why the sudden downer? I mean, if you think you'll lose more than win, its kind of what happens?

I doubt Phil will ever coach, doesn't have the fire in the belly nor the health.

Talent alone can win many games, but a ring needs direction with that talent. I don't feel yet Fisher is that man, might never be even with improved talent. As I said before, with the return of Melo and some NBA level talent this year, what great improvement has Fisher offered? He needs to take the talent give, organize it, and show improvement in players and his poor decisions.

No one is expecting the ring this year, but 32-39 wins with the current cast isn't a major improvement over last years team. Thibs would have done more with this group, they would play harder, fewer mental lapses or quitting, and HEART. True Knicks fans don't want to add Jennings and another overpaid borderline star and pooch the future, but then can do better than the product they are putting out there lately.

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TLover wrote:Coaching has been a big problem IMO..too many wasted plays after timeouts. Rotations out of Whack. Yes stars help you win but good coaching usually wins championships.
Fisher is more preacher than coach at times. Knicks would be a 500 team with better coaching.
Also the needless distractions (Fisher v Barnes, D.Williams v Skank Ho's, Cleanthony v. Gangbangers)
Needs to STOP!

This team has talent but Phil Jackson needs to either coach himself or bring in a better X&O's person. Also think a bold trade with some foresight should be considered.

Players win games and championships. The Warriors won because of the players, the Heat won because of players, all of Phil Jacksons teams won because of the players and on and on. D.Fisher is obviously lacking in the coaching game but if he had the players he would be looking like a much better coach. If D.Fisher was the head coach of the Warriors last year they still would of won the championship.

Are coaches paid to coach and set a viable rotation? If yes, I don't care who we have on the roster; until fisher learns to do ingame rotation (which often sets apart bad coaches from good coaches)we will always be a bottom feeder

Too bad there's no way to prove his rotations aren't the problem cause we have a heck of a lot of problems when games like last night happen. We couldn't make a shot or a layup. Just because some fans on a message board THINK they know what lineup should be playing at certain times means absolutely nothing at all. You don't care who we have on the roster hah?? Well you better start caring if you want the Knicks to start winning cause we have a team full of bench players right now and a couple of starters and that is what the problem is, well one of them any way.

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TLover wrote:Coaching has been a big problem IMO..too many wasted plays after timeouts. Rotations out of Whack. Yes stars help you win but good coaching usually wins championships.
Fisher is more preacher than coach at times. Knicks would be a 500 team with better coaching.
Also the needless distractions (Fisher v Barnes, D.Williams v Skank Ho's, Cleanthony v. Gangbangers)
Needs to STOP!

This team has talent but Phil Jackson needs to either coach himself or bring in a better X&O's person. Also think a bold trade with some foresight should be considered.

Players win games and championships. The Warriors won because of the players, the Heat won because of players, all of Phil Jacksons teams won because of the players and on and on. D.Fisher is obviously lacking in the coaching game but if he had the players he would be looking like a much better coach. If D.Fisher was the head coach of the Warriors last year they still would of won the championship.

Kerr clearly has studied that squad, and he also has experience running a team from the front office. He made some changes that I really doubt Fisher would have. If it was just roll the ball out mark jackson should have won it all with them.

Well i think he would have won the championship with the Warriors and have zero doubts about it. Isn't it funny how L.Walton has them playing championship basketball with zero experience as a head coach just like Kerr had last year??

Walton has a lot more experienced as a coach then fisher. Walton sat on the bench next to the Zen Master for at least two years; further, he was hired as an assistant coach the same year KERR got the call

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TLover wrote:Coaching has been a big problem IMO..too many wasted plays after timeouts. Rotations out of Whack. Yes stars help you win but good coaching usually wins championships.
Fisher is more preacher than coach at times. Knicks would be a 500 team with better coaching.
Also the needless distractions (Fisher v Barnes, D.Williams v Skank Ho's, Cleanthony v. Gangbangers)
Needs to STOP!

This team has talent but Phil Jackson needs to either coach himself or bring in a better X&O's person. Also think a bold trade with some foresight should be considered.

Players win games and championships. The Warriors won because of the players, the Heat won because of players, all of Phil Jacksons teams won because of the players and on and on. D.Fisher is obviously lacking in the coaching game but if he had the players he would be looking like a much better coach. If D.Fisher was the head coach of the Warriors last year they still would of won the championship.

Kerr clearly has studied that squad, and he also has experience running a team from the front office. He made some changes that I really doubt Fisher would have. If it was just roll the ball out mark jackson should have won it all with them.

Well i think he would have won the championship with the Warriors and have zero doubts about it. Isn't it funny how L.Walton has them playing championship basketball with zero experience as a head coach just like Kerr had last year??

Walton has a lot more experienced as a coach then fisher. Walton sat on the bench next to the Zen Master for at least two years; further, he was hired as an assistant coach the same year KERR got the call

newyorker4ever wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TLover wrote:Coaching has been a big problem IMO..too many wasted plays after timeouts. Rotations out of Whack. Yes stars help you win but good coaching usually wins championships.
Fisher is more preacher than coach at times. Knicks would be a 500 team with better coaching.
Also the needless distractions (Fisher v Barnes, D.Williams v Skank Ho's, Cleanthony v. Gangbangers)
Needs to STOP!

This team has talent but Phil Jackson needs to either coach himself or bring in a better X&O's person. Also think a bold trade with some foresight should be considered.

Players win games and championships. The Warriors won because of the players, the Heat won because of players, all of Phil Jacksons teams won because of the players and on and on. D.Fisher is obviously lacking in the coaching game but if he had the players he would be looking like a much better coach. If D.Fisher was the head coach of the Warriors last year they still would of won the championship.

Kerr clearly has studied that squad, and he also has experience running a team from the front office. He made some changes that I really doubt Fisher would have. If it was just roll the ball out mark jackson should have won it all with them.

Well i think he would have won the championship with the Warriors and have zero doubts about it. Isn't it funny how L.Walton has them playing championship basketball with zero experience as a head coach just like Kerr had last year??

Walton has a lot more experienced as a coach then fisher. Walton sat on the bench next to the Zen Master for at least two years; further, he was hired as an assistant coach the same year KERR got the call

My bad i forgot you're not very good with reading comprehension. If you read a little slower you'll see that i said he has no HEAD COACHING experience not bench coaching.

Experience as a headcoach is not really that important; it is experience on the bench as a coach that matters. Since your intelligence level is better then most of us, this is precisely why you failed to realize my point.

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

TLover wrote:Coaching has been a big problem IMO..too many wasted plays after timeouts. Rotations out of Whack. Yes stars help you win but good coaching usually wins championships.
Fisher is more preacher than coach at times. Knicks would be a 500 team with better coaching.
Also the needless distractions (Fisher v Barnes, D.Williams v Skank Ho's, Cleanthony v. Gangbangers)
Needs to STOP!

This team has talent but Phil Jackson needs to either coach himself or bring in a better X&O's person. Also think a bold trade with some foresight should be considered.

Players win games and championships. The Warriors won because of the players, the Heat won because of players, all of Phil Jacksons teams won because of the players and on and on. D.Fisher is obviously lacking in the coaching game but if he had the players he would be looking like a much better coach. If D.Fisher was the head coach of the Warriors last year they still would of won the championship.

Kerr clearly has studied that squad, and he also has experience running a team from the front office. He made some changes that I really doubt Fisher would have. If it was just roll the ball out mark jackson should have won it all with them.

Well i think he would have won the championship with the Warriors and have zero doubts about it. Isn't it funny how L.Walton has them playing championship basketball with zero experience as a head coach just like Kerr had last year??

Walton has a lot more experienced as a coach then fisher. Walton sat on the bench next to the Zen Master for at least two years; further, he was hired as an assistant coach the same year KERR got the call

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Good players make every coach look better. When you have a floor leader that has the talent to not only score but set up teammates and break down a defense, there's a LOT less the coach has to worry about. You can roll the ball out if you have skilled and smart players with great talent. Right now the Knicks have Melo and a very young and inexperienced KP. That's not a lot to work with. We've got some good role play from LT this year and DWILL does seem to have the X Factor off the bench we wanted to see from him. RoLo has been up and down and clearly he has trouble with certain types of modern bigs that can really move and step away from the basket.

Fish's lack of experience and trying to learn his roster at the same time facing a STIFF East this year has had a huge impact on him. I think if you gave him more talent at guard he would be able to compete much better with these other teams. It's really a huge factor when you don't have the talent at guard in a guard dominant league. Phil no doubt sees this. He probably left that open slot and added guards like Jimmer to the D league team expressly because he knew this could be a problem. I wanna see the team with better play at guard!!!

and a bad coach / bad system can make their players look much worse

Oh my! I am beginning to love the 2016 mreinman. About time you shine the light on the roach

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Good players make every coach look better. When you have a floor leader that has the talent to not only score but set up teammates and break down a defense, there's a LOT less the coach has to worry about. You can roll the ball out if you have skilled and smart players with great talent. Right now the Knicks have Melo and a very young and inexperienced KP. That's not a lot to work with. We've got some good role play from LT this year and DWILL does seem to have the X Factor off the bench we wanted to see from him. RoLo has been up and down and clearly he has trouble with certain types of modern bigs that can really move and step away from the basket.

Fish's lack of experience and trying to learn his roster at the same time facing a STIFF East this year has had a huge impact on him. I think if you gave him more talent at guard he would be able to compete much better with these other teams. It's really a huge factor when you don't have the talent at guard in a guard dominant league. Phil no doubt sees this. He probably left that open slot and added guards like Jimmer to the D league team expressly because he knew this could be a problem. I wanna see the team with better play at guard!!!

and a bad coach / bad system can make their players look much worse

Oh my! I am beginning to love the 2016 mreinman. About time you shine the light on the roach

just playing devils advocate. Not sure about fisher yet though I never cared for him as a player or a coach.

I do know that I hate this stupid system.

Welcome my brother:)))) soon even Nalod and NewYork4ever will see the light too

GustavBahler wrote:

TLover wrote:Coaching has been a big problem IMO..too many wasted plays after timeouts. Rotations out of Whack. Yes stars help you win but good coaching usually wins championships.
Fisher is more preacher than coach at times. Knicks would be a 500 team with better coaching.
Also the needless distractions (Fisher v Barnes, D.Williams v Skank Ho's, Cleanthony v. Gangbangers)
Needs to STOP!

This team has talent but Phil Jackson needs to either coach himself or bring in a better X&O's person. Also think a bold trade with some foresight should be considered.

Kidd v tree, Amare v Fire extinguisher, JR v shoe, memories...

You forgot Jerome James vs. Hamburgers (as one sided as that was)!

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Good players make every coach look better. When you have a floor leader that has the talent to not only score but set up teammates and break down a defense, there's a LOT less the coach has to worry about. You can roll the ball out if you have skilled and smart players with great talent. Right now the Knicks have Melo and a very young and inexperienced KP. That's not a lot to work with. We've got some good role play from LT this year and DWILL does seem to have the X Factor off the bench we wanted to see from him. RoLo has been up and down and clearly he has trouble with certain types of modern bigs that can really move and step away from the basket.

Fish's lack of experience and trying to learn his roster at the same time facing a STIFF East this year has had a huge impact on him. I think if you gave him more talent at guard he would be able to compete much better with these other teams. It's really a huge factor when you don't have the talent at guard in a guard dominant league. Phil no doubt sees this. He probably left that open slot and added guards like Jimmer to the D league team expressly because he knew this could be a problem. I wanna see the team with better play at guard!!!

and a bad coach / bad system can make their players look much worse

Oh my! I am beginning to love the 2016 mreinman. About time you shine the light on the roach

just playing devils advocate. Not sure about fisher yet though I never cared for him as a player or a coach.

I do know that I hate this stupid system.

I noticed that neither of you commented on my other points about the talent at guard. If you had any upgrade at PG that could substantially change the equation for this team. It would make all of the things Fish is actually coaching the team to do, much more effective. Everyone is so ready to blame the coach but MOST of what happens on the floor is about the players. You replace Jose with even an average level NBA PG and you're talking about a totally different team IMO. So I can't kill Fish too much about his mistakes because they're made that much more crucial due to the issues we have at guard. Fish doesn't have the margin for error that most coaches do that have guards that can make the game easier for everyone.

RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
31	M. Carter-Williams, MIL	29	30.0	.501	26.4	14.9	23.0	3.6	13.7	8.7	14.68	47.8	1.6
32	Avery Bradley, BOS	30	31.9	.549	10.9	8.4	19.3	1.6	6.6	4.1	14.17	45.2	1.5
33	Shane Larkin, BKN	28	19.1	.540	32.7	12.5	18.9	1.4	11.4	6.3	16.30	42.3	1.4
34	Goran Dragic, MIA	31	32.2	.515	27.8	12.6	20.0	2.5	9.2	6.0	13.77	41.3	1.4
35	J.J. Barea, DAL	        27	21.9	.541	27.8	11.2	23.2	1.8	6.9	4.4	15.50	39.7	1.3
        Jose Calderon, NY	34	26.8	.612	34.9	9.3	12.9	1.3	10.3	5.9	13.92	39.7	1.3
37	Aaron Brooks, CHI	23	16.6	.550	19.9	9.2	24.5	3.3	8.8	6.1	16.93	33.7	1.1
38	George Hill, IND	29	34.8	.536	20.0	9.6	15.9	2.2	10.3	6.2	13.15	32.4	1.1
39	M. Dellavedova, CLE	29	28.3	.564	36.0	10.8	16.2	1.7	7.4	4.6	13.58	31.7	1.1
40	Mo Williams, CLE	24	25.0	.557	23.0	12.8	22.2	0.8	10.5	5.7	14.37	30.2	1.0
RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
61	Greivis Vasquez, MIL	16	22.6	.463	31.7	13.4	19.9	1.3	10.5	5.9	9.35	-8.9	-0.3
62	D.J. Augustin, OKC	31	15.7	.523	27.3	13.2	14.7	1.2	6.4	4.0	9.29	-12.4	-0.4
63	Jameer Nelson, DEN	30	26.8	.469	31.9	11.7	17.9	1.5	11.2	6.2	9.77	-14.7	-0.5
64	Ty Lawson, HOU	        31	25.0	.463	32.4	13.7	15.9	2.0	6.2	4.0	9.47	-17.6	-0.6
65	Norris Cole, NO	        15	22.7	.425	15.5	10.9	20.2	1.3	12.8	7.0	7.11	-19.8	-0.7
66	Austin Rivers, LAC	31	21.8	.489	13.0	9.8	16.5	2.1	7.4	4.7	8.99	-20.4	-0.7
67	Jerian Grant, NY	31	16.1	.438	23.9	14.3	19.2	1.8	10.3	6.1	7.97	-22.5	-0.8
68	Emmanuel Mudiay, DEN	23	29.1	.380	24.2	16.7	27.5	2.9	10.7	6.7	6.75	-42.4	-1.4

Gallo and Afflalo are least passable at SG. Tho neither is actually at a league average PER. It's the PG spot that is really dragging.

RK	PLAYER	                GP	MPG	TS%	AST	TO	USG	ORR	DRR	REBR	PER	VA	EWA
21	K. Caldwell-Pope, DET	33	37.6	.501	11.7	7.1	16.9	2.3	7.7	4.9	12.17	30.8	1.0
22	Evan Turner, BOS	32	26.4	.482	25.3	12.8	19.7	2.5	15.8	9.1	12.74	28.2	0.9
23	Rodney Hood, UTAH	30	29.9	.509	16.5	9.7	20.1	1.7	9.8	5.7	12.30	24.1	0.8
24	Wesley Matthews, DAL	31	31.6	.539	11.4	7.5	17.3	1.4	9.2	5.3	12.08	23.1	0.8
25	Langston Galloway, NY	34	24.5	.509	21.5	6.7	15.0	2.5	13.2	8.0	12.26	21.9	0.7
26	R. Hollis-Jefferson,BKN	19	22.1	.525	19.0	14.8	11.9	8.2	22.6	15.3	13.71	20.1	0.7
27	Ian Patrick Clark, GS	27	9.0	.605	14.8	12.0	20.4	2.8	9.3	6.2	15.52	18.1	0.6
28	Courtney Lee, MEM	34	28.9	.529	12.6	7.8	15.1	1.6	9.2	5.2	11.68	17.3	0.6
29	Kevin Martin, MIN	26	25.0	.506	9.2	6.8	21.4	0.9	9.0	5.0	12.17	16.2	0.5
30	Arron Afflalo, NY	26	31.0	.527	11.5	6.5	17.8	1.2	12.3	6.9	11.81	15.8	0.5

Our guards must play better or must be replaced. This has to be Phil's sole focus right now.

guard was a 5 star alarm going off before the season started but you were convinced that grant would come in flying.