nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:to compete seriously with good teams who try.

Also besides KP we dont have another young player I can truly see developing into a high quality NBA player. I dont think Grant is fast enough skilled enough nor does he play with outstanding energy.

I would trade Carmelo in the RIGHT trade i.e something like trading Carmelo to Chicago--Rose and Noah to Boston and we get Portis Lee Bradley and both Brooklyn #1's.

Grant came into the NBA known as a pg that penetrates, and we saw it in SL and preseason. Every since Fisher told him he wanted him to run the offense instead of doing what he does best, he has lost all confidence and direction.

If grant was on Atlanta, he would have all the space in the world to get to the hole, and would be thriving in that offense. In the this triangle, he is force to give up the rock the second he passes half court.

Grant playing poorly is not the system!!! Did Fish make Jerian slip and fall going to the basket or miss a wide open layup or miss jumpers etc ? It's not Fish! Jerian is just facing the reality of the position at this level and he has to learn and improve. He isn't the 1st rookie guard to struggle at this level.

You know NOTHING about the Triangle if you think Jerian's only option is to give up the ball in this offense as soon as he crossed half court. If you really want to discuss all of the aspects of the guard spot in the Triangle lets do that but this isn't about Jerian being dragged down by the offense or the coach. Perfect example is Shved last year who THRIVED in the role. Jerian has to raise his level of play just the same.

Again bashing without a real response ... I'm sure you know all about the triangle ...But please I would love to hear your concept on it.. What shved did on the Knicks had nothing to do with the triangle he was freelanceing from the perimeter and driving to the hoop to break down the defense... As a matter of fact Phil didn't sign him because of $ and he really went against the pure triangle concept..

I loved shved he was great for us having a pg who could do what shved could do would work wonders for this team. Shved could get us away from playing such systematic repetitive basketball... Driving and breaking down the defense is something jerian can do for us too, but he needs time he's just a rookie... I still think fish is doing the kid wrong by not getting him the proper pt.

I mean what is Jose doing that grant isn't, it sure isn't Jose's defense keeping him in games, or his ability to find the open man or drive and break down the defense. Jose can hit a open shot something grant can't do right now.but hitting open jumpers is what any back up 2 guard should do and that's exactly what Jose should be at this point in his career.

Has fish toyed with grant and his confidance yes I don't think there is any argument there. Just look at how grant was doing with the second unit to start the season, he was a spark and pushing the tempo with dwill. Why have we stopped doing that ? Why have we turned into the slowest team in the league when the game is evolving into a speed ball tempo with lots of threes and drives... Grant should be out there more pushing the tempo until we get a serious upgrade at pg. jose should be regulated to a backup 2 guard hitting his open j's.

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:to compete seriously with good teams who try.

Also besides KP we dont have another young player I can truly see developing into a high quality NBA player. I dont think Grant is fast enough skilled enough nor does he play with outstanding energy.

I would trade Carmelo in the RIGHT trade i.e something like trading Carmelo to Chicago--Rose and Noah to Boston and we get Portis Lee Bradley and both Brooklyn #1's.

Grant came into the NBA known as a pg that penetrates, and we saw it in SL and preseason. Every since Fisher told him he wanted him to run the offense instead of doing what he does best, he has lost all confidence and direction.

If grant was on Atlanta, he would have all the space in the world to get to the hole, and would be thriving in that offense. In the this triangle, he is force to give up the rock the second he passes half court.

Grant playing poorly is not the system!!! Did Fish make Jerian slip and fall going to the basket or miss a wide open layup or miss jumpers etc ? It's not Fish! Jerian is just facing the reality of the position at this level and he has to learn and improve. He isn't the 1st rookie guard to struggle at this level.

You know NOTHING about the Triangle if you think Jerian's only option is to give up the ball in this offense as soon as he crossed half court. If you really want to discuss all of the aspects of the guard spot in the Triangle lets do that but this isn't about Jerian being dragged down by the offense or the coach. Perfect example is Shved last year who THRIVED in the role. Jerian has to raise his level of play just the same.

nix - I think we're running a really bad offense for this group.

I'm watching and I have no idea what this team is trying to do on offense. We'd be better off with Melo Iso ball.

Yes, we don't have the skill or speed that we'd love to see, but I can't help but think we'd have a better record and better developed group if we were perhaps running a more traditional offense that better incorporated the talents we have.

We are running a bad offense or we have the wrong lineup of players on the floor for too long? I don't care what system we run, Jose and RoLo as starters will not win us games. The game starts and ends with the PG and Center spot. Those two should never be paired because they are too slow.

My solution: If I were the coach I would start another guard at the PG spot and keep RoLo in the lineup for defensive purposes. He is not that great of a defender, but he does other things that don't show up in the stat sheets. He set screens and move around well for a big. We just can't run an offense through him as should be in the triangle.

The elephant in the room is none other then Jose. Get him off of the starting five and rplace him with Lance or Williams for that matter. Ask of Carmelo to be the main initiator and our team will be much improved at both ends

He needs developmental time in the d league but the Knicks management is too proud to allow it

We could release early and put grant down and bring up 2 guards like Eric green etc.

nyknickzingis wrote:How many systems have teams tried with Melo? You had the MDA system. You've had Woodson's which was better D with same MDA schemes. In Denver you had Karl's schemes. And now you have Phil's schemes with a rookie/learning young coach. In the end the problem isn't the system - these systems have shown in the past they can have great success with the right group. And Phil has brought in guys that fit with Porzingis, Afflalo, Calderon, Lopez, Quinn, Williams etc. It's just about the fact that the Knicks are paying a guy 20-25 million a year to be a MVP caliber player and instead the player is more along the lines of a fringe all-star. Is Melo even an all-NBA player anymore? He's really good, a 20-22 ppg guy, but is a guy that you can rely on as your #1? I don't think so. It's time to trade Melo, and fill in gaps in the roster and get some young players. It won't be easy to move him, and it won't be to a team that'll give you back great pieces, but the sooner NY does this, the sooner they get back to the playoffs. It's just not feasible, that say when Porzingis peaks 2-3 years from now, that you'd have a 33 year old Melo making nearly 30 million a year being asked to be the best player on a contender. Deal Melo, bring in some longterm pieces and give Porzingis the Dirk Nowitzki role he shows he can play anytime Melo misses a game. You won't make the playoffs this year, and maybe not even next, but after that the odds are you'll be very happy with the decision you made. Trading Melo 2 years from now will be virtually impossible.

And be left with who? The next Nowitski? Or Bargnani?