fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Kemet wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

Kemet wrote:KP.Zingis 7 foot raw talent deserve 24 to 30 minute playing time off the bench, in Big lineup KP, Serafin, D.Will.
Quinn are a 30 minute starter PF that can average 12 to 15 rebounds a game attacking the offensive glass.

Ummmmmmm…what?

Stop acting like KP got 2 or 3 yrs experience under his belt .. he dont!
KP should be getting the majority of his playing time taking advantage over our opponents bench players while gelling with our young core players .. KP, Serafin, D.Will, Galloway, Grant.
After Galloway's performance last season, Fisher should've had Gallo as the backup PG, making Grant a slasher-passer SG.

Fisher experimenting the he doing will guide KP into getting injured in midseason games when teams start playing ROUGH for the win.

One of the things the broadcasters keep pointing out is that KP has been allowed to be just a rookie by playing with Melo, Afflalo, Lopez etc. I think it has worked well for him and his development. He and mElo have great chemistry together. The bench Seems to have found their chemistry again. I am not sure why you would shake that up.

I saw everything I needed to know in one play... I honestly forgot the game, but KP was having one of those stretches where he's hot and hitting everything. Melo had the lead in transition and could have attacked but instead he passed it behind him to the trailing KP and yelled 3! KP pulled for a transition 3 which he missed, but the point was simply Melo was not only feeding the kid but he was thoroughly enjoying it. KP is in such a good spot to succeed here, and we don't need a ton from him. Hey... if he just boxes out and plays D for 30 minutes a game its a PLUS. The offense comes and goes... he's a rook, but that fine, especially with AA playing so well less pressure to score. He can feast when its there. High IQ

u have to watch more ...
That play .. that play remind me of a play we seen often from GS Curry n Draymond Green or Iggy during FINALS.
When Curry dribbling up court he never throws the ball behind him to a running Draymond, Iggy, or Klay, because their job is to go after the rebound IF Curry shoots the ball.
Melo should be teaching KP to shoot a 3 ball when opponents best rebounder is defending him, not shoot the 3 ball when in transition .....

Bonn1997 wrote:That's probably what it's going to take to get the 8th seed

No way they are winning 45 games. Do you guys really believe this team is going to play 8 games over .500 the rest of the way. The only way that happens is if they trade a future first for a PG

I had 20's blood flow and 30's cool. I could go for hours if needed!!!

Long road ahead though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They're 14-14 but they've played at a level that projects closer to 39 wins I'd guess. They've been slightly outscored by their opponents and have had an easier than average schedule so far (opponent winning% .473). That's the 4th easiest schedule in the league right now.

How skewed is that by the 76ers

That's a good question. If you remove the 76ers, we're 12-14, which still projects to a win total in the mid to upper 30s anyway.

I did a quick estimate. I think our opponents' SOS is .506 without those 2 Sixers games. So that 12-14 represents how the team has played against an average schedule. Basketball Reference's Simple Rating System is a more precise way of doing this though, and it has us as 20th out of 30 teams. Now, if the team trades some of our youth (grant, Galloway, etc.) for win-now veterans, which would be typically Dolanism, we can make a push for the playoffs.

we have stayed shockingly healthy. I don't think that this can be sustained.

Knicks aren't a finished product and I don't just mean roster. The team that has played the last four games have gotten some breaks - Philly, Chicago after 4 OTS, but they're a different team than played the previous four games.

I'd too take .500, but I suspect the Knicks floor and ceiling is higher and lower.

This applies to all NBA teams. Like every year there'll teams that look pretty good now that'll struggle the rest of the way. Some that will take off in a good direction, etc.

nixluva wrote:My prediction took into account that the team should get better as the season moved along. I see that happening. We had so many new pieces that we started out behind a lot of the teams that I think this team is actually competitive with when in mid season form. We lost a lot of games just based off of Fish still learning his team and his job and also players not fully in mid season form, chemistry and development. As they've progressed you can see that they are starting to put things together in all of those areas.

The rotation and roles are becoming more clear and I still perceive more upside with this roster. They can still get a bit more out of some of these players as they continue to gel and develop. A lot of the teams we've faced were not just put together this summer like the Knicks. So IMO this team has done very well considering the issues they've had early this season.

team has definitely played above expectations early on. Are you not worried about injuries?

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:I expect more ups and downs but at 14-14 and 30ish games in we are seeing a couple things that will critical to this making the playoffs in a very deep East where its prob going to take 45 wins to get in, and it could be higher.

1) Melo is 31 years young. Im not an NBA player, but Ive had a major knee reconstruction and played sports from 21-39. If an age sticks out at me as my best it was 31.... I still had the leftovers of 20's athleticism but the start of my 30's maturity. A perfect mix. We have heard the quotes and stories about Melo changing his game after his long time off and that's nice... some nights we have seen it more than others. The most promising thing was the bouncy athleticism Melo showed last night. On the 2nd night of a b2b (soft one, granted) he was beating good defenders like Butler right off the dribble for layups. He was showing that great 2nd leap, which was once one of the best in the league. An alley oop? Those are some huge signs for this team, because that is the Melo that can carry a team for month while the team goes 12-4. That's that POTM Melo, that we last saw two years ago when he almost single handedly turned that season around to get that team into the post season.

2) KP is tough. Of all the wonderful things we have seen from this player the one that tells me most is when he rips down a board in traffic and moves those arms as to say if you want to try and rip this ball out of my grip your arms are coming out of their sockets. Durability has yet to be addressed but he certainly knows how to translate his length and quickness into physical play. He TODAY possess bot a power game and a finesse game.

What we have seen the last 4 games is the rest of the team feeding off this dynamic duo. KOQ is cleaning up. Galloway is flying around doing his thing and AA has the deep skill set to take advantage of the space those two are creating.

why is making the playoffs that important?

I think trying to make the playoffs is very important for the players. I am sure that the team has goals and making the playoffs is one of them.

maybe the players, but not fisher and jackson. fisher has made it pretty clear that the goal is not how many wins they get but how the team plays and develops into a cohesive unit with a bedrock culture that will last for years and years. if it were not for kp6 i doubt the playoffs are even being discussed.

do you think we are in "win-now" mode? i cannot make an assessment of this team until it has played 50 games.

You have spoken with Fisher and Jackson? Winning games is always the goal. Remember that's why we picked 4th and not first. Tell me what you see or have heard from Fisher or PHil for that matter that indicates there is any intention above winning as many games as they can. Crazy talk.. this is pro sports. We aren't Phili

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

Wins and loses dont matter ? Wtf?

Are you trying to tell me that losing helps? Oh yeah...in what capacity, losing is a culture, if your losing close games thats mentally crushing, if your losing games by double digits, your force to revamp your roster, and start all over next season with same stupid idea that wins dont matter.

Winning is everything in my book.Builds confidence, builds chemistry, builds culture, makes you an attractive destination.

Losing brings doubt, fingers start pointing, locker rooms become divided, and you start 2nd guessing everything, so please explain to me the benefits of losing.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:I expect more ups and downs but at 14-14 and 30ish games in we are seeing a couple things that will critical to this making the playoffs in a very deep East where its prob going to take 45 wins to get in, and it could be higher.

1) Melo is 31 years young. Im not an NBA player, but Ive had a major knee reconstruction and played sports from 21-39. If an age sticks out at me as my best it was 31.... I still had the leftovers of 20's athleticism but the start of my 30's maturity. A perfect mix. We have heard the quotes and stories about Melo changing his game after his long time off and that's nice... some nights we have seen it more than others. The most promising thing was the bouncy athleticism Melo showed last night. On the 2nd night of a b2b (soft one, granted) he was beating good defenders like Butler right off the dribble for layups. He was showing that great 2nd leap, which was once one of the best in the league. An alley oop? Those are some huge signs for this team, because that is the Melo that can carry a team for month while the team goes 12-4. That's that POTM Melo, that we last saw two years ago when he almost single handedly turned that season around to get that team into the post season.

2) KP is tough. Of all the wonderful things we have seen from this player the one that tells me most is when he rips down a board in traffic and moves those arms as to say if you want to try and rip this ball out of my grip your arms are coming out of their sockets. Durability has yet to be addressed but he certainly knows how to translate his length and quickness into physical play. He TODAY possess bot a power game and a finesse game.

What we have seen the last 4 games is the rest of the team feeding off this dynamic duo. KOQ is cleaning up. Galloway is flying around doing his thing and AA has the deep skill set to take advantage of the space those two are creating.

why is making the playoffs that important?

I think trying to make the playoffs is very important for the players. I am sure that the team has goals and making the playoffs is one of them.

maybe the players, but not fisher and jackson. fisher has made it pretty clear that the goal is not how many wins they get but how the team plays and develops into a cohesive unit with a bedrock culture that will last for years and years. if it were not for kp6 i doubt the playoffs are even being discussed.

do you think we are in "win-now" mode? i cannot make an assessment of this team until it has played 50 games.

You have spoken with Fisher and Jackson? Winning games is always the goal. Remember that's why we picked 4th and not first. Tell me what you see or have heard from Fisher or PHil for that matter that indicates there is any intention above winning as many games as they can. Crazy talk.. this is pro sports. We aren't Phili

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

Wins and loses dont matter ? Wtf?

Are you trying to tell me that losing helps? Oh yeah...in what capacity, losing is a culture, if your losing close games thats mentally crushing, if your losing games by double digits, your force to revamp your roster, and start all over next season with same stupid idea that wins dont matter.

Winning is everything in my book.Builds confidence, builds chemistry, builds culture, makes you an attractive destination.

Losing brings doubt, fingers start pointing, locker rooms become divided, and you start 2nd guessing everything, so please explain to me the benefits of losing.

that wasn't the point. the knicks are not contending this year, they are developing a team, and learning how to play together as a unit. that requires planning and patience. so they are building something this year and they will continue to build through next season as well. for the time being it isn't winning or losing but how you play that counts. the president and the coaching staff are working on getting all the players on the roster to buy in to this program and plan.

do you not see that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

You guys are totally misreading that Fisher quote. He's saying they have to continue to play hard whether they're up by 20 or down by 20. No part of that quote is saying wins and losses don't matter.

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-build-big-lead-over-minnesota-timberwolves-before-they-nearly-get-lulled-into-a-loss.html

“We just continue to reinforce the message that the score doesn’t really matter at the end of the day,” Coach Derek Fisher said. “It’s how you’re playing possession to possession. What decisions are you making? Are you still taking good shots?”

By inference, since the coach is reinforcing that the final score does not matter (no doubt he is on the same page as the president), then neither does the win-loss record.

Hard to spin this any other way but have at it

You guys are totally misreading that Fisher quote. He's saying they have to continue to play hard whether they're up by 20 or down by 20. No part of that quote is saying wins and losses don't matter.

playing hard is a given. playing the right way is not a given. jackson believes in system basketball. fisher wants to make sure his players are playing the right way every possession as part of that plan/system. the inference is there to be made, i made it.

you leapt to your own conclusions from something that wasn't there.