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Robin Lopez is a good player in a bad system
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Knicks1969
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12/8/2015  8:31 AM
All of our players are shooting the ball poorly, and it is all because of the scheme. The system has nothing to do with the lack of production in my opinion. If we speed up the tempo instead of slowing it down 95% of the time to establish a post presence, these players will ALL benefit. RoLo runs the floor nicely for a big and is agile. Push the tempo and mitigate the double team our boys face night in night out
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
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Vmart
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12/8/2015  9:11 AM
Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.
BRIGGS
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12/8/2015  9:38 AM
Vmart wrote:Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.

Yep--we need more punch. Too much responsibility on Melo and hes taking too many shots. Because of the inconsistency of so many players--were an easy guard. Only reason game got close was KP exploded and even with explosion we total 94 points. Im not a Lopez fan at 13.5mm--way too much $$. Hes good as a back up or spot starter but anyone can see the reason why Portland didnt chase him. Hes not terrible but hes a 5-6 mm dollar back up.

RIP Crushalot😞
Bonn1997
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12/8/2015  9:39 AM
Andrew wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I'm sure a lot of it is the system but even his shots at the rim are not falling at the same rate this year. He's at 55% this year vs. anywhere between 65 and 69% the last 3 years.

Could be because the quality of those shots are different. Uncontested dish offs compared to 1:1 shots he's creating for himself. His assisted % is down 20% from last year.


Yeah it could be that or he's still injured or both. We have to figure out how to get his offense closer to normal.
Bonn1997
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12/8/2015  9:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/8/2015  9:56 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.

Yep--we need more punch. Too much responsibility on Melo and hes taking too many shots. Because of the inconsistency of so many players--were an easy guard. Only reason game got close was KP exploded and even with explosion we total 94 points. Im not a Lopez fan at 13.5mm--way too much $$. Hes good as a back up or spot starter but anyone can see the reason why Portland didnt chase him. Hes not terrible but hes a 5-6 mm dollar back up.


The thing that puzzles me in all your posts about Rolo is that you're ignoring how much worse his offense is this year than his career #s. It's like you're looking at the Lopez we have through 20 games and assuming that's a reflection of the overall player he is. When a guy regularly shoots 55% but is at 45% this year and used to get to the line at double the rate (4 vs. 2 FTs per 36 min), you don't even notice the difference? When he regularly has an offensive rating of 120 points per 100 possessions (one of the best in the league) but is at 98 points per 100 possessions this year (one of the worst), it's not a relevant difference? We have him for four years. We have to figure out how to get him back to normal.
mreinman
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12/8/2015  10:08 AM
Andrew wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I'm sure a lot of it is the system but even his shots at the rim are not falling at the same rate this year. He's at 55% this year vs. anywhere between 65 and 69% the last 3 years.

Could be because the quality of those shots are different. Uncontested dish offs compared to 1:1 shots he's creating for himself. His assisted % is down 20% from last year.

you are absolutely right. Those shots at the rim difficult shots that he is trying to create.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
knicks1248
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12/8/2015  10:10 AM
Andrew wrote:I'm in agreement with the origional post....this is the wrong system for rolo. I dont want to see KP banging with the deandre jordans and the beefier 5s but i do thinkwe will see more time for him there. Willie H's style of play prob fits better for this system. I'd move rolo if the right situation came around.

Once again the coaching staff is hell bent on fitting the player in the system instead of tweaking the system to compliments the players.

There are numerous players on this team that have suffered because of the system. Guards going under the screen to try and defend the PnR, who's logic is that?

ES
Vmart
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12/8/2015  10:11 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.

Yep--we need more punch. Too much responsibility on Melo and hes taking too many shots. Because of the inconsistency of so many players--were an easy guard. Only reason game got close was KP exploded and even with explosion we total 94 points. Im not a Lopez fan at 13.5mm--way too much $$. Hes good as a back up or spot starter but anyone can see the reason why Portland didnt chase him. Hes not terrible but hes a 5-6 mm dollar back up.


The thing that puzzles me in all your posts about Rolo is that you're ignoring how much worse his offense is this year than his career #s. It's like you're looking at the Lopez we have through 20 games and assuming that's a reflection of the overall player he is. When a guy regularly shoots 55% but is at 45% this year and used to get to the line at double the rate (4 vs. 2 FTs per 36 min), you don't even notice the difference? When he regularly has an offensive rating of 120 points per 100 possessions (one of the best in the league) but is at 98 points per 100 possessions this year (one of the worst), it's not a relevant difference? We have him for four years. We have to figure out how to get him back to normal.

I agree with your assessment of Lopez. It's going to be very difficult to get him going though this is why. We have Fisher who is keeping the team down. His moves are puzzling to say the least. I don't think he has the ability to put Lopez in a position to succeed.
mreinman
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12/8/2015  10:11 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.

Yep--we need more punch. Too much responsibility on Melo and hes taking too many shots. Because of the inconsistency of so many players--were an easy guard. Only reason game got close was KP exploded and even with explosion we total 94 points. Im not a Lopez fan at 13.5mm--way too much $$. Hes good as a back up or spot starter but anyone can see the reason why Portland didnt chase him. Hes not terrible but hes a 5-6 mm dollar back up.


The thing that puzzles me in all your posts about Rolo is that you're ignoring how much worse his offense is this year than his career #s. It's like you're looking at the Lopez we have through 20 games and assuming that's a reflection of the overall player he is. When a guy regularly shoots 55% but is at 45% this year and used to get to the line at double the rate (4 vs. 2 FTs per 36 min), you don't even notice the difference? When he regularly has an offensive rating of 120 points per 100 possessions (one of the best in the league) but is at 98 points per 100 possessions this year (one of the worst), it's not a relevant difference? We have him for four years. We have to figure out how to get him back to normal.

+100000000

Position vs. Logic and understanding variables

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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12/8/2015  10:13 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:All of our players are shooting the ball poorly, and it is all because of the scheme. The system has nothing to do with the lack of production in my opinion. If we speed up the tempo instead of slowing it down 95% of the time to establish a post presence, these players will ALL benefit. RoLo runs the floor nicely for a big and is agile. Push the tempo and mitigate the double team our boys face night in night out

did you just contradict yourself?

Of course the system or the "scheme" has to do with all of our bigs tanking vs previous years efficiency

so here is what phil is thinking ....
newyorknewyork
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12/8/2015  10:24 AM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.

Yep--we need more punch. Too much responsibility on Melo and hes taking too many shots. Because of the inconsistency of so many players--were an easy guard. Only reason game got close was KP exploded and even with explosion we total 94 points. Im not a Lopez fan at 13.5mm--way too much $$. Hes good as a back up or spot starter but anyone can see the reason why Portland didnt chase him. Hes not terrible but hes a 5-6 mm dollar back up.


The thing that puzzles me in all your posts about Rolo is that you're ignoring how much worse his offense is this year than his career #s. It's like you're looking at the Lopez we have through 20 games and assuming that's a reflection of the overall player he is. When a guy regularly shoots 55% but is at 45% this year and used to get to the line at double the rate (4 vs. 2 FTs per 36 min), you don't even notice the difference? When he regularly has an offensive rating of 120 points per 100 possessions (one of the best in the league) but is at 98 points per 100 possessions this year (one of the worst), it's not a relevant difference? We have him for four years. We have to figure out how to get him back to normal.

+100000000

Position vs. Logic and understanding variables

It was called out when he was signed that he might not be a good fit for the triangle. Which is y some were upset at the price he was signed for. To much risk at that price and length.

They run the Tri better with a KP-Seraphin-Melo front court. Lopez should be paired with Grant as they both are better equipped for pure PNR.

Now if we upgrade Seraphin then the Tri would be stronger. KP and Melo could float between Tri and spacing for PNR

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mreinman
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12/8/2015  10:27 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:Lopez isn't that bad this team needs a scoring PG that is what is missing. This team needs more scorers period.

Yep--we need more punch. Too much responsibility on Melo and hes taking too many shots. Because of the inconsistency of so many players--were an easy guard. Only reason game got close was KP exploded and even with explosion we total 94 points. Im not a Lopez fan at 13.5mm--way too much $$. Hes good as a back up or spot starter but anyone can see the reason why Portland didnt chase him. Hes not terrible but hes a 5-6 mm dollar back up.


The thing that puzzles me in all your posts about Rolo is that you're ignoring how much worse his offense is this year than his career #s. It's like you're looking at the Lopez we have through 20 games and assuming that's a reflection of the overall player he is. When a guy regularly shoots 55% but is at 45% this year and used to get to the line at double the rate (4 vs. 2 FTs per 36 min), you don't even notice the difference? When he regularly has an offensive rating of 120 points per 100 possessions (one of the best in the league) but is at 98 points per 100 possessions this year (one of the worst), it's not a relevant difference? We have him for four years. We have to figure out how to get him back to normal.

+100000000

Position vs. Logic and understanding variables

It was called out when he was signed that he might not be a good fit for the triangle. Which is y some were upset at the price he was signed for. To much risk at that price and length.

They run the Tri better with a KP-Seraphin-Melo front court. Lopez should be paired with Grant as they both are better equipped for pure PNR.

Now if we upgrade Seraphin then the Tri would be stronger. KP and Melo could float between Tri and spacing for PNR

seraphin though he has had moments does not make them better in the triangle with his chucking mindset. If you looked at the best 5 man rotations I am sure the Melo KP and Rolo are much better than KP melo and Seraphin

so here is what phil is thinking ....
knicks1248
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12/8/2015  10:29 AM
having Rolo come off the bench would make phil look like an idiot, and fisher look pretty smart
ES
mreinman
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12/8/2015  12:18 PM
This post that I saw on knickerblogger

I wonder if Phil and Bucks GM both have buyer’s remorse. Lopez’s value on offense is setting picks/offensive rebounding (like Tyson), not posting-up; the experiment of trying to turn him into a Triangle big isn’t going very well. Monroe started like gangbusters for Bucks but has really regressed and I have no idea what’s happening there. Would Phil and Bucks GM consider a swap on December 20th (or whenever the first date they could trade players signed this summer)?

Personally, at this stage, I’d prefer to keep Lopez and move away from the Triangle but it’s almost a religion to Phil so I dunno. Monroe is a perfect fit for his system and KP’s defense somewhat mitigates Monroe rim protection issues.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
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12/8/2015  12:23 PM
Personally, at this stage, I’d prefer to keep Lopez and move away from the Triangle but it’s almost a religion to Phil so I dunno. Monroe is a perfect fit for his system and KP’s defense somewhat mitigates Monroe rim protection issues.

+1
fishmike
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12/8/2015  12:34 PM
No Monroe... as much as Lopez has struggled he's done a lot of things very well. They need to look at these sets and figure it out. Or Lopez needs to hit a 12 footer.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
blkexec
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12/8/2015  12:34 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Personally, at this stage, I’d prefer to keep Lopez and move away from the Triangle but it’s almost a religion to Phil so I dunno. Monroe is a perfect fit for his system and KP’s defense somewhat mitigates Monroe rim protection issues.

+1

Phil already knew Monroe was a better fit, which is why we went hard at Monroe. Lopez was a last option, hoping the triangle would improve his offense. But with Lopez in the game, teams are forcing him to be more offensive by playing off of him. They rather let the offense go through Lopez.....Thats a winning strategy for all teams.

And when Lopez is in the game, he only has two spots to be on the court, which means in half court, he will always be the guy in the paint controling the offensive flow. Basketball is about momentum, and Lopez kills offensive momentum. His defensive skill set isn't strong enough to overcome his offensive deficiencies.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
mreinman
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12/8/2015  12:37 PM
fishmike wrote:No Monroe... as much as Lopez has struggled he's done a lot of things very well. They need to look at these sets and figure it out. Or Lopez needs to hit a 12 footer.


no to monroe ... agreed

no to forcing Rolo into these sets. Rolo can hit an open assisted 12 footer, thats not the problem and not sure I need to have my bigs taking too many 12 footers anyway. How many 12 footers does bogut take? Pretty much none.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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12/8/2015  12:38 PM
blkexec wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Personally, at this stage, I’d prefer to keep Lopez and move away from the Triangle but it’s almost a religion to Phil so I dunno. Monroe is a perfect fit for his system and KP’s defense somewhat mitigates Monroe rim protection issues.

+1

Phil already knew Monroe was a better fit, which is why we went hard at Monroe. Lopez was a last option, hoping the triangle would improve his offense. But with Lopez in the game, teams are forcing him to be more offensive by playing off of him. They rather let the offense go through Lopez.....Thats a winning strategy for all teams.

And when Lopez is in the game, he only has two spots to be on the court, which means in half court, he will always be the guy in the paint controling the offensive flow. Basketball is about momentum, and Lopez kills offensive momentum. His defensive skill set isn't strong enough to overcome his offensive deficiencies.

but he was always an efficient offensive player. Lets not forget that.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
meloanyk
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12/8/2015  1:12 PM
Lopez isnt the problem nor answer, he wasnt brought in here for offense but for all the intangibles he brings. Forget Monroe and his crappy D .We need to stop blaming a triangle that is more in theory than practice. Fact is our starting five is offensively fine as we start three established scorers. Melo just cant continue to shoot at 40% if we are to win games (the others are all in the range of 45-48%) nor can we expect two green kids to produce with any consistency. Be nice if Phil can somehow get a veteran guard who can score off bench. Id be willing use Galloway and Oquinn (because they dont play him for whatever reason) to get that piece
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