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Zach Lowe at ESPN tackles the Knicks/Porzingis
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fishmike
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12/1/2015  1:28 PM
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Knixkik
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12/1/2015  1:32 PM
crzymdups wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

The point of bringing up all those trades was how unlikely most of them were.

The whole point of the article was that building around Melo and Porzingis may be their best option.

You can see the conundrum: A realistic and fair Anthony deal is hard to conjure, and may require a number of delicate variables flipping into place at the same time -- including a third team to absorb extra salary. Porzingis is in many ways an ideal front-court partner for Melo -- a big who can protect the rim on defense, and stretch the floor on offense, leaving the elbows free for Melo's jab-steppy isolation game.

Striking a middle path in free agency may be New York's best option after all.

It is by far their best option. Like the article says, Melo is well-liked by his peers, and having him plus a future star is a "something for everybody" sort of approach to building a team. We want our Knicks to develop a good reputation with players and agents and showing unconditional loyalty to Melo is one way to do that. This is what San Antonio does. Trying to move him because he doesn't necessarily fit the youth movement shows poor personnel management. He is well-liked by his teammates and seems to be bought into this squad, so its best to roll with it, rather than overthink it.

Rookie
Posts: 27069
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12/1/2015  1:39 PM
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

fishmike
Posts: 53867
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12/1/2015  1:41 PM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Rookie
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12/1/2015  1:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2015  1:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont

So you are saying that we will be a contender in the Melo era? (trying to have a conversation, not an argument here)

H1AND1
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12/1/2015  1:49 PM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont

So you are saying that we will be a contender in the Melo era? (trying to have a conversation, not an argument here)

Regardless, Melo isn't even eligible to be amnestied. For one the Knicks used their amnesty on Billups and secondly it only applies to contracts signed under the _old_ CBA. I don't event think there are any amnesty eligible contracts out there anymore.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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12/1/2015  1:59 PM
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

lol, i was thinking the same damn thing when i read it. Maybe they miss the part when mills said, the idea of trading melo w has never even remotely been talked about.

ES
Rookie
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12/1/2015  2:03 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont

So you are saying that we will be a contender in the Melo era? (trying to have a conversation, not an argument here)

Regardless, Melo isn't even eligible to be amnestied. For one the Knicks used their amnesty on Billups and secondly it only applies to contracts signed under the _old_ CBA. I don't event think there are any amnesty eligible contracts out there anymore.

assuming the Knicks get another amnesty with the new CBA in 2017

Rookie
Posts: 27069
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12/1/2015  2:04 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

lol, i was thinking the same damn thing when i read it. Maybe they miss the part when mills said, the idea of trading melo w has never even remotely been talked about.

Talk to me after 2 more years of missing the playoffs

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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12/1/2015  2:14 PM
Rookie wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

lol, i was thinking the same damn thing when i read it. Maybe they miss the part when mills said, the idea of trading melo w has never even remotely been talked about.

Talk to me after 2 more years of missing the playoffs

I think you have a better chance hoping they put the right pg in the mix, as oppose to trading melo, waiving, him or any other way you can think of to get rid of him. It's just soooooo far fetch

ES
Knixkik
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12/1/2015  2:15 PM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

Melo is not affecting a rebuild around KP, so you don't have to get rid of him in order to build around KP. Does San Antonio need to trade Duncan, Manu, and Parker to build around Leonard? Nope. Also, you need to consider the domino affect these moves have around the league. Its important to try to build a good rep with players and agents. Personnel management is as important as anything. How do you plan on attracting free agents when you want to dump your former star because he is old news and you have a shiny new toy? Just doesn't work that way. Business is business but you are dealing with people and reputations. If he wants to move, you accommodate him, but if he wants to remain apart of this thing, you embrace that.

fishmike
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12/1/2015  2:18 PM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont

So you are saying that we will be a contender in the Melo era? (trying to have a conversation, not an argument here)

were we a contender 3 years ago when we won 54? Define contender.

a) he's not waiving his no trade
b) he loves the guys on this team, especially KP and those two games compliment each other

Not much else matters

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
ChuckBuck
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12/1/2015  2:26 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

Melo is not affecting a rebuild around KP, so you don't have to get rid of him in order to build around KP. Does San Antonio need to trade Duncan, Manu, and Parker to build around Leonard? Nope. Also, you need to consider the domino affect these moves have around the league. Its important to try to build a good rep with players and agents. Personnel management is as important as anything. How do you plan on attracting free agents when you want to dump your former star because he is old news and you have a shiny new toy? Just doesn't work that way. Business is business but you are dealing with people and reputations. If he wants to move, you accommodate him, but if he wants to remain apart of this thing, you embrace that.

Only thing wrong with your analogy is those guys move the ball at will like it's hot potato in San Antonio.

Melo always has to be reminded by Fisher to move the ball and trust his teammates (which to his credit) he's starting to do more of.

Manu and TD move the ball like water flowing from the fountain, and attack when they have a clear mismatch or opening. Melo still has to shed the scorer's green light at all times mentality from time to time, especially those heat check shots he puts up. Plus the constant over dribbling to shoot the tough contested jumpers is a momentum and offensive flow killer to the team. Manu, Parker, and TD usually are waaaaaaaaaaaay more efficient with their usage, so can't compare that situation. It's why Aldridge instantly accepted the Spurs offer even though they had several mouths to feed including Kawhi. Teamball is electric over there, every one touches the rock.

KP on the other hand just has the sky high unselfish basketball IQ, and just knows when to take a shot and when to defer, so far in his career. It's uncanny. The shots may not always drop or go in, but you can't say KP takes alot of bad shots or forced shots. They're usually within the flow of the offense, off a cut, off pick and pop, off a mid post...just a smart bball player overall.

Rookie
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12/1/2015  2:29 PM
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont

So you are saying that we will be a contender in the Melo era? (trying to have a conversation, not an argument here)

were we a contender 3 years ago when we won 54? Define contender.

a) he's not waiving his no trade
b) he loves the guys on this team, especially KP and those two games compliment each other

Not much else matters

I define contender as making it to the ECF.

a) after 2 more seasons of not sniffing the ECF, Melo could want the freedom to sign with the team of his choice. He could force a trade, but with his salary that would gut the other team. He could negotiate a buy out, but that would still count against the cap. We could agree to amnesty him (in 2017) giving him his freedom to sign anywhere. We could then use our cap space to sign complimentary players or another star FA. It's just conversation

Knixkik
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12/1/2015  2:50 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

Melo is not affecting a rebuild around KP, so you don't have to get rid of him in order to build around KP. Does San Antonio need to trade Duncan, Manu, and Parker to build around Leonard? Nope. Also, you need to consider the domino affect these moves have around the league. Its important to try to build a good rep with players and agents. Personnel management is as important as anything. How do you plan on attracting free agents when you want to dump your former star because he is old news and you have a shiny new toy? Just doesn't work that way. Business is business but you are dealing with people and reputations. If he wants to move, you accommodate him, but if he wants to remain apart of this thing, you embrace that.

Only thing wrong with your analogy is those guys move the ball at will like it's hot potato in San Antonio.

Melo always has to be reminded by Fisher to move the ball and trust his teammates (which to his credit) he's starting to do more of.

Manu and TD move the ball like water flowing from the fountain, and attack when they have a clear mismatch or opening. Melo still has to shed the scorer's green light at all times mentality from time to time, especially those heat check shots he puts up. Plus the constant over dribbling to shoot the tough contested jumpers is a momentum and offensive flow killer to the team. Manu, Parker, and TD usually are waaaaaaaaaaaay more efficient with their usage, so can't compare that situation. It's why Aldridge instantly accepted the Spurs offer even though they had several mouths to feed including Kawhi. Teamball is electric over there, every one touches the rock.

KP on the other hand just has the sky high unselfish basketball IQ, and just knows when to take a shot and when to defer, so far in his career. It's uncanny. The shots may not always drop or go in, but you can't say KP takes alot of bad shots or forced shots. They're usually within the flow of the offense, off a cut, off pick and pop, off a mid post...just a smart bball player overall.


He doesn't take bad shots because he has been able to remain a complimentary player on offense to Melo. Melo goes and that changes. KP is forced into the type of role Okafor has in Philly, where he is not ready for that, no rookie is. He can grow alongside Melo, and when its time to pass the torch, Melo has made it very clear he wants to be the one to do that. For the first time in a long time, there seems to be a group of players playing together who actually like each other, and the vets seems to be a great example for the young guys. Why ruin that, just because Melo and KP are at different stages in their careers? If things change then so be it, but seems like we are headed down the right path with this group.
Nalod
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12/1/2015  2:55 PM
Good article because it covers a lot of angles.
The "question" of trading melo is a good exercise.
I like the idea of gradually building and if something jumps out perhaps we then do something.

Fans are panicking.

fishmike
Posts: 53867
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12/1/2015  3:06 PM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

No... you dont

So you are saying that we will be a contender in the Melo era? (trying to have a conversation, not an argument here)

were we a contender 3 years ago when we won 54? Define contender.

a) he's not waiving his no trade
b) he loves the guys on this team, especially KP and those two games compliment each other

Not much else matters

I define contender as making it to the ECF.

a) after 2 more seasons of not sniffing the ECF, Melo could want the freedom to sign with the team of his choice. He could force a trade, but with his salary that would gut the other team. He could negotiate a buy out, but that would still count against the cap. We could agree to amnesty him (in 2017) giving him his freedom to sign anywhere. We could then use our cap space to sign complimentary players or another star FA. It's just conversation

he seems to be enjoying the rebuilding process... I think simply this is where he wants to be.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
Posts: 71379
Alba Posts: 155
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12/1/2015  3:16 PM
For melo to be traded he:

1. has to land in a contending situation. It can't be depleted.
2. In a city he wants to live in.
3. Knicks have to take back enough potential and salary to make sense.

I only see Miami as a natural spot and with them over the cap and Wade uncertain I really don't hoe motivated they would be.
Chicago is interesting but Im only thinking Butler as center piece is viable to knocks.

Im not so much looking to move Melo as much as I am to install future potential with a higher ceiling than retaining Melo. Easier said than don.

mreinman
Posts: 37827
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12/1/2015  3:19 PM
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

we don't have an amnesty

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Rookie
Posts: 27069
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Member: #2274

12/1/2015  3:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/1/2015  3:46 PM
mreinman wrote:
Rookie wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Rookie wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:This is what caught my attention:

• Houston Rockets: Now we're talking. An underachieving contender desperate to win before Dwight Howard can bolt. The four-man package of Ty Lawson (sunk cost on an expiring deal), Patrick Beverley (a perfect triangle point guard!), Terrence Jones, and Trevor Ariza matches the combined salaries of Melo and Jose Calderon almost exactly -- a key bit of math synergy, since Houston is hard-capped. Toss in a Rockets pick, and you have the kind of mega-deal that makes both sides a little anxious.

Make it happen!

Between Melo's salary and No Trade Clause, he is a more likely candidate for the Amnesty provision then as a trade chip. This would also coincide with the 'patience' approach. If we spend our entire cap in 2016 improving the roster, we could then free up cap space again in 2017 by amnestying Melo. The 2017 FA class also looks a little deeper and we could build around KP, until then it is still Melo's team and personal stats will feed Melo's ball hogging ego.

amnesty Melo... I have really heard it all here.

33 y.o. Melo with 2 years left on his contract, or 1 year till he can opt out. It's going to be hard to trade aging max salary Melo with the looming opt out. What do you really get back, and would he waive his no trade clause to go to a competitive team that guts it's roster to get him...basically another rebuild. If you want to build around KP, you have to amnesty Melo.

we don't have an amnesty

I mistakenly thought the current CBA expires after the 2016-2017 season, but I am wrong

"While the current CBA runs through the 2020-21 season, the NBPA has said it will opt out of it after the 2016-2017 season, effectively creating a two-year timetable for the players union and the league to come to an agreement on a range of revenue-sharing issues. Some have speculated that an agreement between the two sides will be hard to reach, and that a lockout could be in store during the 2017-18 season. "

Zach Lowe at ESPN tackles the Knicks/Porzingis

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