martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:His biggest positives has been the draft. Trading hardaway for Grant was a great move that im sure Atlanta regrets. Then of course his best move as a GM was drafting KP. This kid is already our best player and he isn't even close to a finished product. I have been saying for years to VALUE DRAFT PICKS. Thankfully Phil agrees with me

He used it well. What is promising are the guys that havent worked out. Thanasis is just a 2nd rounder, so the yield rate is low there, but you see the vision and the mantra... draft guys, build a pipeline, devlop prospects using the D league. The coaching changes down there tell me getting something from that part of the organization is something they really value and want to get right.

I think Grant becomes a really really good player for us. He defends well and get into the paint at will. When your team is genenrally bigger than the team your facing and your PG can get into the paint at will he's going to get your guys some good looks.

I give him credit for Fisher also. He may be learning the in game adjustments and x's and o's but he's got these guys all on the same page and playing really well.

Also I am seeing guys make adjustments. I was really down on Seraphin (black hole) and Will (because he's got no D) but those guys are passing more, defending more and clearly makding adjustments to fit into what we are doing.

I am very impressed and enjoying every bit of this.

DWill

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:His biggest positives has been the draft. Trading hardaway for Grant was a great move that im sure Atlanta regrets. Then of course his best move as a GM was drafting KP. This kid is already our best player and he isn't even close to a finished product. I have been saying for years to VALUE DRAFT PICKS. Thankfully Phil agrees with me

He used it well. What is promising are the guys that havent worked out. Thanasis is just a 2nd rounder, so the yield rate is low there, but you see the vision and the mantra... draft guys, build a pipeline, devlop prospects using the D league. The coaching changes down there tell me getting something from that part of the organization is something they really value and want to get right.

I think Grant becomes a really really good player for us. He defends well and get into the paint at will. When your team is genenrally bigger than the team your facing and your PG can get into the paint at will he's going to get your guys some good looks.

I give him credit for Fisher also. He may be learning the in game adjustments and x's and o's but he's got these guys all on the same page and playing really well.

Also I am seeing guys make adjustments. I was really down on Seraphin (black hole) and Will (because he's got no D) but those guys are passing more, defending more and clearly makding adjustments to fit into what we are doing.

I am very impressed and enjoying every bit of this.

The judgement is still out on Fisher; I won't think Phil just yet::))). It certainly pays to have all around talent on the roster, and it is all thanks to Phil

COME ON MAN! Fish has shown he's getting better and he always was able to get his players to play hard even when he didn't have talent last year. Fish was most likely the biggest supporter of LT coming back, which was a good move. In the end his team is prepared and getting better. They still have work to do, but he's getting results. When a team is one of the top defensive teams it's not an accident. That is hugely a reflection of coaching.

Now you know that is 100% bS, because i can pull up Dozens of post where you and many other posters stated that without defensive players you will have a bad defensive team, and that part is 100% accurate. When fisher was asked the other day about his defensive philosophy this yr from last year, he proceed to say that he's changed very little.

IMO, the difference is having two 7 footers protecting the paint, and KP is athletic enough to at least make life tougher on opposing guards who blow by galloway, grant, calerone and sasha.

Melo and calderon have been the biggest surprise on the defensive end, they have up the effort big time, lance and KP can guard multiple positions, galloway and grant are not great perimeter defenders, but at least the fight over screens better then any other guards we've had in years (aside from kidd)

So in a nut shell, it's clearly been the players that have made us a very solid defensive team.

When players are doing what they do yes.. its the players and the gm who brought them in. When they are greater than the sum of their part than the coaching has them playing together. Fisher gets plenty of credit for whats going on here.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:His biggest positives has been the draft. Trading hardaway for Grant was a great move that im sure Atlanta regrets. Then of course his best move as a GM was drafting KP. This kid is already our best player and he isn't even close to a finished product. I have been saying for years to VALUE DRAFT PICKS. Thankfully Phil agrees with me

He used it well. What is promising are the guys that havent worked out. Thanasis is just a 2nd rounder, so the yield rate is low there, but you see the vision and the mantra... draft guys, build a pipeline, devlop prospects using the D league. The coaching changes down there tell me getting something from that part of the organization is something they really value and want to get right.

I think Grant becomes a really really good player for us. He defends well and get into the paint at will. When your team is genenrally bigger than the team your facing and your PG can get into the paint at will he's going to get your guys some good looks.

I give him credit for Fisher also. He may be learning the in game adjustments and x's and o's but he's got these guys all on the same page and playing really well.

Also I am seeing guys make adjustments. I was really down on Seraphin (black hole) and Will (because he's got no D) but those guys are passing more, defending more and clearly makding adjustments to fit into what we are doing.

I am very impressed and enjoying every bit of this.

The judgement is still out on Fisher; I won't think Phil just yet::))). It certainly pays to have all around talent on the roster, and it is all thanks to Phil

COME ON MAN! Fish has shown he's getting better and he always was able to get his players to play hard even when he didn't have talent last year. Fish was most likely the biggest supporter of LT coming back, which was a good move. In the end his team is prepared and getting better. They still have work to do, but he's getting results. When a team is one of the top defensive teams it's not an accident. That is hugely a reflection of coaching.

Now you know that is 100% bS, because i can pull up Dozens of post where you and many other posters stated that without defensive players you will have a bad defensive team, and that part is 100% accurate. When fisher was asked the other day about his defensive philosophy this yr from last year, he proceed to say that he's changed very little.

IMO, the difference is having two 7 footers protecting the paint, and KP is athletic enough to at least make life tougher on opposing guards who blow by galloway, grant, calerone and sasha.

Melo and calderon have been the biggest surprise on the defensive end, they have up the effort big time, lance and KP can guard multiple positions, galloway and grant are not great perimeter defenders, but at least the fight over screens better then any other guards we've had in years (aside from kidd)

So in a nut shell, it's clearly been the players that have made us a very solid defensive team.

Not BS at all. All I heard was how bad Jose is and how cant start a PG that cant defend. We star Jose and Melo... two guys with a history of either being poor defenders or lacking effort. Than you have a rookie, and you have AA, who is nice but is not Bruce Bowen and Ruben Patterson. Having Rolo is a huge help, but does team have more and better defensive player than the 37 win team with Tyson, Shump, JR, etc?

When players are doing what they do yes.. its the players and the gm who brought them in. When they are greater than the sum of their part than the coaching has them playing together. Fisher gets plenty of credit for whats going on here.

THANK YOU!

I was clearly not saying that the talent doesn't matter, but to the contrary it goes hand in hand. It's not JUST the defensive talent nor is it JUST the coaching. Phil added some better defensive players but as you stated we still have guys who aren't good defenders and overall the team is playing at a higher level than any analyst predicted. You can't accept the predictions for the team only winning 30 games and at the same time try to make the case that we have overwhelming talent on D that anyone could have seen coming into the year. Clearly most were not convinced that this team could play like this. Therefore the players AND the coach have to be credited. Fish is doing a good job. The team has been in most every game save a couple so at some point people have to stop being down on him and acknowledge Fish has been showing ability as a coach.

knicks1248 wrote:Fisher is doing an ok job(I think we should be 10-4)

Are you giving the Knicks credit for the win in which Melo stepped out of bounds?

If you're going to play that accounting game, you gotta do it both ways.

No team should just be credited wins for losses, only fair it works both ways.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:His biggest positives has been the draft. Trading hardaway for Grant was a great move that im sure Atlanta regrets. Then of course his best move as a GM was drafting KP. This kid is already our best player and he isn't even close to a finished product. I have been saying for years to VALUE DRAFT PICKS. Thankfully Phil agrees with me

He used it well. What is promising are the guys that havent worked out. Thanasis is just a 2nd rounder, so the yield rate is low there, but you see the vision and the mantra... draft guys, build a pipeline, devlop prospects using the D league. The coaching changes down there tell me getting something from that part of the organization is something they really value and want to get right.

I think Grant becomes a really really good player for us. He defends well and get into the paint at will. When your team is genenrally bigger than the team your facing and your PG can get into the paint at will he's going to get your guys some good looks.

I give him credit for Fisher also. He may be learning the in game adjustments and x's and o's but he's got these guys all on the same page and playing really well.

Also I am seeing guys make adjustments. I was really down on Seraphin (black hole) and Will (because he's got no D) but those guys are passing more, defending more and clearly makding adjustments to fit into what we are doing.

I am very impressed and enjoying every bit of this.

The judgement is still out on Fisher; I won't think Phil just yet::))). It certainly pays to have all around talent on the roster, and it is all thanks to Phil

COME ON MAN! Fish has shown he's getting better and he always was able to get his players to play hard even when he didn't have talent last year. Fish was most likely the biggest supporter of LT coming back, which was a good move. In the end his team is prepared and getting better. They still have work to do, but he's getting results. When a team is one of the top defensive teams it's not an accident. That is hugely a reflection of coaching.

Now you know that is 100% bS, because i can pull up Dozens of post where you and many other posters stated that without defensive players you will have a bad defensive team, and that part is 100% accurate. When fisher was asked the other day about his defensive philosophy this yr from last year, he proceed to say that he's changed very little.

IMO, the difference is having two 7 footers protecting the paint, and KP is athletic enough to at least make life tougher on opposing guards who blow by galloway, grant, calerone and sasha.

Melo and calderon have been the biggest surprise on the defensive end, they have up the effort big time, lance and KP can guard multiple positions, galloway and grant are not great perimeter defenders, but at least the fight over screens better then any other guards we've had in years (aside from kidd)

So in a nut shell, it's clearly been the players that have made us a very solid defensive team.

Not BS at all. All I heard was how bad Jose is and how cant start a PG that cant defend. We star Jose and Melo... two guys with a history of either being poor defenders or lacking effort. Than you have a rookie, and you have AA, who is nice but is not Bruce Bowen and Ruben Patterson. Having Rolo is a huge help, but does team have more and better defensive player than the 37 win team with Tyson, Shump, JR, etc?

When players are doing what they do yes.. its the players and the gm who brought them in. When they are greater than the sum of their part than the coaching has them playing together. Fisher gets plenty of credit for whats going on here.

THANK YOU!

I was clearly not saying that the talent doesn't matter, but to the contrary it goes hand in hand. It's not JUST the defensive talent nor is it JUST the coaching. Phil added some better defensive players but as you stated we still have guys who aren't good defenders and overall the team is playing at a higher level than any analyst predicted. You can't accept the predictions for the team only winning 30 games and at the same time try to make the case that we have overwhelming talent on D that anyone could have seen coming into the year. Clearly most were not convinced that this team could play like this. Therefore the players AND the coach have to be credited. Fish is doing a good job. The team has been in most every game save a couple so at some point people have to stop being down on him and acknowledge Fish has been showing ability as a coach.

I can count on one hand (including the both of us) who were sure this team was a 45 win team base on it's roster alone. I never was down on calderon because i figured the long lay off was the reason for his slow start. I saw enough in SL and preseason to make a convincing argument that this team is a playoff team.

I have no qualms about any player on this roster if given the right minutes and role, but when Fisher tries and outsmart himself by giving guys roles they have no business having, that's when i have a problem, that's when people start question the player rather than the coach.

Fisher is doing an ok job(I think we should be 10-4) i'm giving majority of the credit to phil,who brought the right players instead of the most talent. It's the things that's going on off the court (like sasha, calderone, and melo's impact on Kp and grant)and in the locker room that's showing dividends on the court.

If you saw the episode of the coaches corner on NBA TV a few months ago, with 6 current and former NBA coaches. They all flat out agreed that leadership in the locker room means everything to the success of a team. They also flat out agreed that they really don't start coaching until the last 5 to 6 minutes of a close game.

If we win more than 47 games, then i will concede that we over achieved and fisher should be coach of the yr

I picked 45 wins because it was an NBA roster with size and Melo, and those teams are generally good for 45ish+ wins, playoff struggles aside. People that were basing win totals off the 17 win season werent really thinking and looking. This is really an upgrade to the 37 win team, not the 17 win team.
Rolo for Tyson
KP for Amare
Grant/Jose for Felton/Prigs
AA for JR
and KOQ, Galloway and DWill to flesh out the roster.

My thought was simply if we get 70ish healthy-ish games from Rolo and Melo we get 45-ish wins.

knicks1248 wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Fisher is doing an ok job(I think we should be 10-4)

Are you giving the Knicks credit for the win in which Melo stepped out of bounds?

If you're going to play that accounting game, you gotta do it both ways.

No team should just be credited wins for losses, only fair it works both ways.

There are always going to be missed calls in a game, that one was magnified because of when it happen.

It's like missing your first 2 FT's in the first 5 minutes of a game, then hitting the next 24 and losing the game by 1. Nobody talks about the miss Ft's because it didn't happen in the clutch, obviously if the FT's were made you would have won.

Exactly, just the same as they're always going to be games that swing both ways. That's how NBA seasons are played. You'r going to blow leads or poorly execute down the stretch in losses, and teams you beat will do the same.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:His biggest positives has been the draft. Trading hardaway for Grant was a great move that im sure Atlanta regrets. Then of course his best move as a GM was drafting KP. This kid is already our best player and he isn't even close to a finished product. I have been saying for years to VALUE DRAFT PICKS. Thankfully Phil agrees with me

He used it well. What is promising are the guys that havent worked out. Thanasis is just a 2nd rounder, so the yield rate is low there, but you see the vision and the mantra... draft guys, build a pipeline, devlop prospects using the D league. The coaching changes down there tell me getting something from that part of the organization is something they really value and want to get right.

I think Grant becomes a really really good player for us. He defends well and get into the paint at will. When your team is genenrally bigger than the team your facing and your PG can get into the paint at will he's going to get your guys some good looks.

I give him credit for Fisher also. He may be learning the in game adjustments and x's and o's but he's got these guys all on the same page and playing really well.

Also I am seeing guys make adjustments. I was really down on Seraphin (black hole) and Will (because he's got no D) but those guys are passing more, defending more and clearly makding adjustments to fit into what we are doing.

I am very impressed and enjoying every bit of this.

The judgement is still out on Fisher; I won't think Phil just yet::))). It certainly pays to have all around talent on the roster, and it is all thanks to Phil

COME ON MAN! Fish has shown he's getting better and he always was able to get his players to play hard even when he didn't have talent last year. Fish was most likely the biggest supporter of LT coming back, which was a good move. In the end his team is prepared and getting better. They still have work to do, but he's getting results. When a team is one of the top defensive teams it's not an accident. That is hugely a reflection of coaching.

Now you know that is 100% bS, because i can pull up Dozens of post where you and many other posters stated that without defensive players you will have a bad defensive team, and that part is 100% accurate. When fisher was asked the other day about his defensive philosophy this yr from last year, he proceed to say that he's changed very little.

IMO, the difference is having two 7 footers protecting the paint, and KP is athletic enough to at least make life tougher on opposing guards who blow by galloway, grant, calerone and sasha.

Melo and calderon have been the biggest surprise on the defensive end, they have up the effort big time, lance and KP can guard multiple positions, galloway and grant are not great perimeter defenders, but at least the fight over screens better then any other guards we've had in years (aside from kidd)

So in a nut shell, it's clearly been the players that have made us a very solid defensive team.

Not BS at all. All I heard was how bad Jose is and how cant start a PG that cant defend. We star Jose and Melo... two guys with a history of either being poor defenders or lacking effort. Than you have a rookie, and you have AA, who is nice but is not Bruce Bowen and Ruben Patterson. Having Rolo is a huge help, but does team have more and better defensive player than the 37 win team with Tyson, Shump, JR, etc?

When players are doing what they do yes.. its the players and the gm who brought them in. When they are greater than the sum of their part than the coaching has them playing together. Fisher gets plenty of credit for whats going on here.

THANK YOU!

I was clearly not saying that the talent doesn't matter, but to the contrary it goes hand in hand. It's not JUST the defensive talent nor is it JUST the coaching. Phil added some better defensive players but as you stated we still have guys who aren't good defenders and overall the team is playing at a higher level than any analyst predicted. You can't accept the predictions for the team only winning 30 games and at the same time try to make the case that we have overwhelming talent on D that anyone could have seen coming into the year. Clearly most were not convinced that this team could play like this. Therefore the players AND the coach have to be credited. Fish is doing a good job. The team has been in most every game save a couple so at some point people have to stop being down on him and acknowledge Fish has been showing ability as a coach.

I can count on one hand (including the both of us) who were sure this team was a 45 win team base on it's roster alone. I never was down on calderon because i figured the long lay off was the reason for his slow start. I saw enough in SL and preseason to make a convincing argument that this team is a playoff team.

I have no qualms about any player on this roster if given the right minutes and role, but when Fisher tries and outsmart himself by giving guys roles they have no business having, that's when i have a problem, that's when people start question the player rather than the coach.

Fisher is doing an ok job(I think we should be 10-4) i'm giving majority of the credit to phil,who brought the right players instead of the most talent. It's the things that's going on off the court (like sasha, calderone, and melo's impact on Kp and grant)and in the locker room that's showing dividends on the court.

If you saw the episode of the coaches corner on NBA TV a few months ago, with 6 current and former NBA coaches. They all flat out agreed that leadership in the locker room means everything to the success of a team. They also flat out agreed that they really don't start coaching until the last 5 to 6 minutes of a close game.

If we win more than 47 games, then i will concede that we over achieved and fisher should be coach of the yr

am I one of them? I have said 45 wins since the roster was set and havent changed that #. In fact I have a bet with the idiot who started the Alba thread (his one good contribution) that the Knicks win that # or more.

I picked 45 wins because it was an NBA roster with size and Melo, and those teams are generally good for 45ish+ wins, playoff struggles aside. People that were basing win totals off the 17 win season werent really thinking and looking. This is really an upgrade to the 37 win team, not the 17 win team.
Rolo for Tyson
KP for Amare
Grant/Jose for Felton/Prigs
AA for JR
and KOQ, Galloway and DWill to flesh out the roster.

My thought was simply if we get 70ish healthy-ish games from Rolo and Melo we get 45-ish wins.