BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:love Batum actually... I would put him very high, possibly #1 for my FA targets. No need to trade for him.

Yellow... every year team's move players. Its early.

On Durant as great as he is I just think we are better with muscle at the 5 and KP/Melo at the forwards.

I dont know whats next... I guess for Phil to be opportunistic. We have some good players and some movable pieces. We could also do very little and put the focus on simply making Grant, Gallow, KP and KOQ better players.

Batum reminds me of a more athletic Shane Battier. He doesn't have the mindset to be a 25 ppg scorer, but he seems to fit into the offense, make the extra pass and take good shots. He's also a good enough ballhandler to facilitate the offense.

nice call. Better offense, not as good as battier on defense.

mreinman wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:love Batum actually... I would put him very high, possibly #1 for my FA targets. No need to trade for him.

Yellow... every year team's move players. Its early.

On Durant as great as he is I just think we are better with muscle at the 5 and KP/Melo at the forwards.

I dont know whats next... I guess for Phil to be opportunistic. We have some good players and some movable pieces. We could also do very little and put the focus on simply making Grant, Gallow, KP and KOQ better players.

Batum reminds me of a more athletic Shane Battier. He doesn't have the mindset to be a 25 ppg scorer, but he seems to fit into the offense, make the extra pass and take good shots. He's also a good enough ballhandler to facilitate the offense.

nice call. Better offense, not as good as battier on defense.

Would be nice to have a stopper on the wing.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:love Batum actually... I would put him very high, possibly #1 for my FA targets. No need to trade for him.

Yellow... every year team's move players. Its early.

On Durant as great as he is I just think we are better with muscle at the 5 and KP/Melo at the forwards.

I dont know whats next... I guess for Phil to be opportunistic. We have some good players and some movable pieces. We could also do very little and put the focus on simply making Grant, Gallow, KP and KOQ better players.

Batum reminds me of a more athletic Shane Battier. He doesn't have the mindset to be a 25 ppg scorer, but he seems to fit into the offense, make the extra pass and take good shots. He's also a good enough ballhandler to facilitate the offense.

nice call. Better offense, not as good as battier on defense.

yea I would say Shane was a legit stopper. Batum isnt, but might be a better all around player.

Would be nice to have a stopper on the wing.

was was so underrated about Battier is that not only was he a legit stopper but he was also a good offensive player. That is hard to find. Tony Allen can't throw the ball in the ocean.

Batum is good enough defensively ... would be my top choice but I really don't want him to crimp Dwils growth and cut into his playing time.

good stuff

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I don't think this is an indication on Phil, but most all UFA who switch teams are usually overpaid or maxed out.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I don't think this is an indication on Phil, but most all UFA who switch teams are usually overpaid or maxed out.

perhaps though going from charlotte to NY with NY being hot (not like last year) would be deserving of a discount.

will he get over paid? Probably but I don't phil pays him.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I am not sure it is overpaying when you start factoring age, future cap, need, and market. Lopez is making $13.5m, going forward in two years that contract will be worth what a $8m dollar contract is today.

$19m is my high number. Fishmike and I just have different ideas but I think we created a decent hypothetical range. $15m(Carroll) and $19m(Millsap).

A base salary of $17m will avg out to $18.18m a year with 4.5% raises.( 4 yr / $72.73m )

IMHO, bigs have a much higher worth than those guys.

To me, guys like Dray and Milsap are def max guys. Stretch 4's that can facilitate offense.

Maybe but I have not really researched this but I bet there are not many 15 pts and 5 ast 2 guards outside of Harden. Yes, I realize that Batum scored under that at the 3 position but the potential as a 2 guard is there.

Batum is not a 5 assist guy either. He had a nice couple of years on portland but that may not translate to other teams.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I am not sure it is overpaying when you start factoring age, future cap, need, and market. Lopez is making $13.5m, going forward in two years that contract will be worth what a $8m dollar contract is today.

$19m is my high number. Fishmike and I just have different ideas but I think we created a decent hypothetical range. $15m(Carroll) and $19m(Millsap).

A base salary of $17m will avg out to $18.18m a year with 4.5% raises.( 4 yr / $72.73m )

IMHO, bigs have a much higher worth than those guys.

To me, guys like Dray and Milsap are def max guys. Stretch 4's that can facilitate offense.

Maybe but I have not really researched this but I bet there are not many 15 pts and 5 ast 2 guards outside of Harden. Yes, I realize that Batum scored under that at the 3 position but the potential as a 2 guard is there.

Batum is not a 5 assist guy either. He had a nice couple of years on portland but that may not translate to other teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3416/nicolas-batum

3 straight years of just about 5 assists per doesn't convince you?

I mentioned that he had a good couple of (assist) years in Portland. It could have also been the system he was running and how he was utilized. He is now at 3.8 with charlotte (or 4/36). Curious to see how he finishes the year but he is certainly a willing and able passer.

Again, I am a really big Batum fan and have been for a while. Just don't want to overpay for him and for that position.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I am not sure it is overpaying when you start factoring age, future cap, need, and market. Lopez is making $13.5m, going forward in two years that contract will be worth what a $8m dollar contract is today.

$19m is my high number. Fishmike and I just have different ideas but I think we created a decent hypothetical range. $15m(Carroll) and $19m(Millsap).

A base salary of $17m will avg out to $18.18m a year with 4.5% raises.( 4 yr / $72.73m )

IMHO, bigs have a much higher worth than those guys.

To me, guys like Dray and Milsap are def max guys. Stretch 4's that can facilitate offense.

Maybe but I have not really researched this but I bet there are not many 15 pts and 5 ast 2 guards outside of Harden. Yes, I realize that Batum scored under that at the 3 position but the potential as a 2 guard is there.

Batum is not a 5 assist guy either. He had a nice couple of years on portland but that may not translate to other teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3416/nicolas-batum

3 straight years of just about 5 assists per doesn't convince you?

I mentioned that he had a good couple of (assist) years in Portland. It could have also been the system he was running and how he was utilized. He is now at 3.8 with charlotte (or 4/36). Curious to see how he finishes the year but he is certainly a willing and able passer.

Again, I am a really big Batum fan and have been for a while. Just don't want to overpay for him and for that position.

I understand not overpaying him but what are you basing your numbers off of? Look back at the past contract numbers for 2 guards like Jimmy, Klay, and Khris($14m - $18m) and then players like Beal Derozen, and Fournier. Beal's and Fournier's max are around $20.9m, who knows if Beal would get it. Derozen is an interesting case because his max is huge but he will likely not get near that. So what is the watered down version of Kobe worth?

you were for middleton getting paid crazy money not me :-)

I am really going off what I think Phil will do. Has Phil ever overpaid for (1'-)2-3's? I wonder if there is precedence there. Seems like Phil pays for bigs.

Maybe Batum is our Pippen but I see Iggy as a much much better fit. I don't think that he gets the max but I think I would overpay for him. He is a real difference maker and a Phil type of hybrid.

I don't know ... I may be talking out of my azz here ...

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I am not sure it is overpaying when you start factoring age, future cap, need, and market. Lopez is making $13.5m, going forward in two years that contract will be worth what a $8m dollar contract is today.

$19m is my high number. Fishmike and I just have different ideas but I think we created a decent hypothetical range. $15m(Carroll) and $19m(Millsap).

A base salary of $17m will avg out to $18.18m a year with 4.5% raises.( 4 yr / $72.73m )

IMHO, bigs have a much higher worth than those guys.

To me, guys like Dray and Milsap are def max guys. Stretch 4's that can facilitate offense.

Maybe but I have not really researched this but I bet there are not many 15 pts and 5 ast 2 guards outside of Harden. Yes, I realize that Batum scored under that at the 3 position but the potential as a 2 guard is there.

Batum is not a 5 assist guy either. He had a nice couple of years on portland but that may not translate to other teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3416/nicolas-batum

3 straight years of just about 5 assists per doesn't convince you?

I mentioned that he had a good couple of (assist) years in Portland. It could have also been the system he was running and how he was utilized. He is now at 3.8 with charlotte (or 4/36). Curious to see how he finishes the year but he is certainly a willing and able passer.

Again, I am a really big Batum fan and have been for a while. Just don't want to overpay for him and for that position.

I understand not overpaying him but what are you basing your numbers off of? Look back at the past contract numbers for 2 guards like Jimmy, Klay, and Khris($14m - $18m) and then players like Beal Derozen, and Fournier. Beal's and Fournier's max are around $20.9m, who knows if Beal would get it. Derozen is an interesting case because his max is huge but he will likely not get near that. So what is the watered down version of Kobe worth?

you were for middleton getting paid crazy money not me :-)

I am really going off what I think Phil will do. Has Phil ever overpaid for (1'-)2-3's? I wonder if there is precedence there. Seems like Phil pays for bigs.

Maybe Batum is our Pippen but I see Iggy as a much much better fit. I don't think that he gets the max but I think I would overpay for him. He is a real difference maker and a Phil type of hybrid.

I don't know ... I may be talking out of my azz here ...

We only have 1.8? years to go on regarding Phil. It's a little too early to determined what he will do.

Iggy is nice but he's already 31 about to turn 32. He is a win now player. Now if Afflalo opts out and the knicks get Batum at somewhere between $14m - $19m I would go after iggy to pair with Gallo on the bench.

That's an upgrade and that team could compete in the East.

Calderon/Grant
Batum/Gallo/
Melo/Iggy
KP/Willy G
Lopez/O'quinn

So many versatile pieces.

I can Imagine a lineup of Gallo, Batum, Iggy, Melo, and KP getting some time.

I can live with that!

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I think Batum asking price is going to be near $19m. His passing separates him from Carrol and the ability to play the 2 is big unlike Carrol who is a 3/4. He is already getting paid 12m+ so I doubt an extra $3m will excite him.

martin wrote:Is Batum worth trading a future first for? I want to say that his cap hold would eat up any space the Knicks would potentially have to make on offer to the likes of Durant.

And, why not wait until after the season to snag him? What's the rush this year?

If Batum is indeed a 20 point, 6 rebounds and 3 assist guy, I like him, but is he?

Is he worth it? Possibly, it just depends on what kind of players you can get in FA going forward. I may have spoke to soon about trading for him. I was thinking about him like he was a restricted player and not an unrestricted player. My bad.

Batum is not a 20 pt scorer but I think he is a 15 pt scorer. 6 reb, and 5 ast guy. So what you lose in individual scoring you'd gain in team scoring by his passing in a reduced role. Maybe as he enters his prime he can bump it up to 17 pts while going back to his Blazers type all around skills.

15 million to play in NY where all the attention is (now). He may bite. We are a great fit for him.

Phil won't over pay him.

I am not sure it is overpaying when you start factoring age, future cap, need, and market. Lopez is making $13.5m, going forward in two years that contract will be worth what a $8m dollar contract is today.

$19m is my high number. Fishmike and I just have different ideas but I think we created a decent hypothetical range. $15m(Carroll) and $19m(Millsap).

A base salary of $17m will avg out to $18.18m a year with 4.5% raises.( 4 yr / $72.73m )

IMHO, bigs have a much higher worth than those guys.

To me, guys like Dray and Milsap are def max guys. Stretch 4's that can facilitate offense.

Maybe but I have not really researched this but I bet there are not many 15 pts and 5 ast 2 guards outside of Harden. Yes, I realize that Batum scored under that at the 3 position but the potential as a 2 guard is there.

Batum is not a 5 assist guy either. He had a nice couple of years on portland but that may not translate to other teams.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3416/nicolas-batum

3 straight years of just about 5 assists per doesn't convince you?

I mentioned that he had a good couple of (assist) years in Portland. It could have also been the system he was running and how he was utilized. He is now at 3.8 with charlotte (or 4/36). Curious to see how he finishes the year but he is certainly a willing and able passer.

Again, I am a really big Batum fan and have been for a while. Just don't want to overpay for him and for that position.

Dude, you also mentioned that Batum is not a 5 assist guy. But he is. And then you mention that that may not translate to other teams. And then bring up how he's now at 3.8 with Charlotte, 11 games into their season, as if that has any heft or meaning.

You want to make an argument, feel free to be meaningful and consistent and coherent.

I don't know what your issue is here. My statements made complete sense. I said that his is at 3.8 "Curious to see how he finishes the year but he is certainly a willing and able passer."

You just looking to pick? He is 3 assist per year. 3 straight year near 5 and lets see this year.