BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Who is "them" and where are they, Briggs? You don't have a specific nation-state to invade or bomb.

So the second Bush was right to invade Iraq? That "war" was just more fuel for the hatred some have for "Western" nations and culture, and the post invasion rebuilding polcies of Bush created a large, willing, and motivated source of terrorists. Isis is made out of many of the displaced Ba'athists, and much of their conventional military success comes from former Iraqi military men.

Has to be a worldwide effort to deal with these guys now...sure- but the heart of that effort has to be the Middle Eastern nations themselves, and not just the U.S., Fr, British, Germans, Russians, etc., because Isis and other Islamic extremists will use this for a recruiting poster.

I have no problem with wiping these guys off the map, but you have to do it the right way, and its going to be hard to eradicate this movement without a lot of hard work and blood. Dropping nuclear bombs will do nothing positive except give some a temporary sense of satisfaction and kill many undeserving people.

The nations of the M.E. have to be put into a situation where they take the initiative, with the realization that inaction on their part will lead to economic punishment, but the only way the world can do this is to reach a point where our oil addiction is ended, since this is essentially the only hold that region has on the rest of the world.

BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Right so the deaths of 150 people is abborant, horrific, evil, etc (which it is), but nuking an entire continent and incinerating millions of children and innocent civilians is fair? That makes you more evil than ISIS.

George Bush helped the rise of ISIS specifically because of his policies in Iraq and Afghanistan. The military policy has been an absolute disaster. Destabilising countries via war empowers these people.

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Who is "them" and where are they, Briggs? You don't have a specific nation-state to invade or bomb.

So the second Bush was right to invade Iraq? That "war" was just more fuel for the hatred some have for "Western" nations and culture, and the post invasion rebuilding polcies of Bush created a large, willing, and motivated source of terrorists. Isis is made out of many of the displaced Ba'athists, and much of their conventional military success comes from former Iraqi military men.

Has to be a worldwide effort to deal with these guys now...sure- but the heart of that effort has to be the Middle Eastern nations themselves, and not just the U.S., Fr, British, Germans, Russians, etc., because Isis and other Islamic extremists will use this for a recruiting poster.

I have no problem with wiping these guys off the map, but you have to do it the right way, and its going to be hard to eradicate this movement without a lot of hard work and blood. Dropping nuclear bombs will do nothing positive except give some a temporary sense of satisfaction and kill many undeserving people.

The nations of the M.E. have to be put into a situation where they take the initiative, with the realization that inaction on their part will lead to economic punishment, but the only way the world can do this is to reach a point where our oil addiction is ended, since this is essentially the only hold that region has on the rest of the world.

What makes matters even trickier is the fact that a lot of these psychos are not just Middle Easterners or from one part of the world. They're everywhere and of all skin colors. Anders Breivik didn't look particularly Middle Eastern to me, nor did Timothy McVeigh. And what those two did was just as sinister as what just happened in Paris. But they do all have one common element. They all hate democracy, and their disgusting actions are benefitting those who would like to do away with democracy. Follow the money.

smackeddog wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Who is "them" and where are they, Briggs? You don't have a specific nation-state to invade or bomb.

So the second Bush was right to invade Iraq? That "war" was just more fuel for the hatred some have for "Western" nations and culture, and the post invasion rebuilding polcies of Bush created a large, willing, and motivated source of terrorists. Isis is made out of many of the displaced Ba'athists, and much of their conventional military success comes from former Iraqi military men.

Has to be a worldwide effort to deal with these guys now...sure- but the heart of that effort has to be the Middle Eastern nations themselves, and not just the U.S., Fr, British, Germans, Russians, etc., because Isis and other Islamic extremists will use this for a recruiting poster.

I have no problem with wiping these guys off the map, but you have to do it the right way, and its going to be hard to eradicate this movement without a lot of hard work and blood. Dropping nuclear bombs will do nothing positive except give some a temporary sense of satisfaction and kill many undeserving people.

The nations of the M.E. have to be put into a situation where they take the initiative, with the realization that inaction on their part will lead to economic punishment, but the only way the world can do this is to reach a point where our oil addiction is ended, since this is essentially the only hold that region has on the rest of the world.

What makes matters even trickier is the fact that a lot of these psychos are not just Middle Easterners or from one part of the world. They're everywhere and of all skin colors. Anders Breivik didn't look particularly Middle Eastern to me, nor did Timothy McVeigh. And what those two did was just as sinister as what just happened in Paris. But they do all have one common element. They all hate democracy, and their disgusting actions are benefitting those who would like to do away with democracy. Follow the money.

They don't do it because of a hatred of democracy. There is a psychological component- usually people who turn mass murderer have anger problems, feel alienated and have a lack of investment in society. This actually applies to a lot of people (probably myself included as a teenager!), for most they either meet someone, go into helping professions, or just focus on getting rich, but I think for some it sets them off a dark path. Some end up as high school massacrers, others become politicized by a cause (whether it's ideology or foreign policy or rage at deaths of people they identify with), which gives them a feeling of direction, identity and a direction for their anger. They then do what most criminals do, 'blame the victim' to abdicate themselves from any responsibility for the horrors they enact.

So it's basically a mixture of their own issues and their response to foreign policy.

All of that is true, but someone still has to brainwash them and train them into doing this stuff. That is who I'm talking about. The recruiters and trainers are never the ones to go and blow themselves up. Why? Because they're not brainwashed, obviously. What is driving THEM? A hatred for democracy. A desire and love for another system of government or social order based in terror and brutality and iron fisted rule, one fueled by xenophobia and mistrust of anyone 'not like you'.

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Who is "them" and where are they, Briggs? You don't have a specific nation-state to invade or bomb.

So the second Bush was right to invade Iraq? That "war" was just more fuel for the hatred some have for "Western" nations and culture, and the post invasion rebuilding polcies of Bush created a large, willing, and motivated source of terrorists. Isis is made out of many of the displaced Ba'athists, and much of their conventional military success comes from former Iraqi military men.

Has to be a worldwide effort to deal with these guys now...sure- but the heart of that effort has to be the Middle Eastern nations themselves, and not just the U.S., Fr, British, Germans, Russians, etc., because Isis and other Islamic extremists will use this for a recruiting poster.

I have no problem with wiping these guys off the map, but you have to do it the right way, and its going to be hard to eradicate this movement without a lot of hard work and blood. Dropping nuclear bombs will do nothing positive except give some a temporary sense of satisfaction and kill many undeserving people.

The nations of the M.E. have to be put into a situation where they take the initiative, with the realization that inaction on their part will lead to economic punishment, but the only way the world can do this is to reach a point where our oil addiction is ended, since this is essentially the only hold that region has on the rest of the world.

What makes matters even trickier is the fact that a lot of these psychos are not just Middle Easterners or from one part of the world. They're everywhere and of all skin colors. Anders Breivik didn't look particularly Middle Eastern to me, nor did Timothy McVeigh. And what those two did was just as sinister as what just happened in Paris. But they do all have one common element. They all hate democracy, and their disgusting actions are benefitting those who would like to do away with democracy. Follow the money.

They don't do it because of a hatred of democracy. There is a psychological component- usually people who turn mass murderer have anger problems, feel alienated and have a lack of investment in society. This actually applies to a lot of people (probably myself included as a teenager!), for most they either meet someone, go into helping professions, or just focus on getting rich, but I think for some it sets them off a dark path. Some end up as high school massacrers, others become politicized by a cause (whether it's ideology or foreign policy or rage at deaths of people they identify with), which gives them a feeling of direction, identity and a direction for their anger. They then do what most criminals do, 'blame the victim' to abdicate themselves from any responsibility for the horrors they enact.

So it's basically a mixture of their own issues and their response to foreign policy.

Yeah...the hate democracy and "they hate our way of life" stuff that came of Bush Jr. was BS, IMO.

Religion, or a religious fervor, has been major component in all of this(Although you always need a "devil" to fight, and the West fits the bill)...we have not seen this number of suicide bombers since the end of WWII. Have to believe in a greater power- be it religious in nature or nationalistic- if you are wrapping yourself up in bombs. Religion seems to trump rationality, provide a foundation for action, and is exploited by the architects of the Isis movement as well as any Madison Ave. advertising firm exploiting gullible Americans.

Complicated issues won't respond to simplistic solutions, and bombs and walls are simplistic.

You think it's BS that they hate democracy and hate our way of life?

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Who is "them" and where are they, Briggs? You don't have a specific nation-state to invade or bomb.

So the second Bush was right to invade Iraq? That "war" was just more fuel for the hatred some have for "Western" nations and culture, and the post invasion rebuilding polcies of Bush created a large, willing, and motivated source of terrorists. Isis is made out of many of the displaced Ba'athists, and much of their conventional military success comes from former Iraqi military men.

Has to be a worldwide effort to deal with these guys now...sure- but the heart of that effort has to be the Middle Eastern nations themselves, and not just the U.S., Fr, British, Germans, Russians, etc., because Isis and other Islamic extremists will use this for a recruiting poster.

I have no problem with wiping these guys off the map, but you have to do it the right way, and its going to be hard to eradicate this movement without a lot of hard work and blood. Dropping nuclear bombs will do nothing positive except give some a temporary sense of satisfaction and kill many undeserving people.

The nations of the M.E. have to be put into a situation where they take the initiative, with the realization that inaction on their part will lead to economic punishment, but the only way the world can do this is to reach a point where our oil addiction is ended, since this is essentially the only hold that region has on the rest of the world.

What makes matters even trickier is the fact that a lot of these psychos are not just Middle Easterners or from one part of the world. They're everywhere and of all skin colors. Anders Breivik didn't look particularly Middle Eastern to me, nor did Timothy McVeigh. And what those two did was just as sinister as what just happened in Paris. But they do all have one common element. They all hate democracy, and their disgusting actions are benefitting those who would like to do away with democracy. Follow the money.

They don't do it because of a hatred of democracy. There is a psychological component- usually people who turn mass murderer have anger problems, feel alienated and have a lack of investment in society. This actually applies to a lot of people (probably myself included as a teenager!), for most they either meet someone, go into helping professions, or just focus on getting rich, but I think for some it sets them off a dark path. Some end up as high school massacrers, others become politicized by a cause (whether it's ideology or foreign policy or rage at deaths of people they identify with), which gives them a feeling of direction, identity and a direction for their anger. They then do what most criminals do, 'blame the victim' to abdicate themselves from any responsibility for the horrors they enact.

So it's basically a mixture of their own issues and their response to foreign policy.

Yeah...the hate democracy and "they hate our way of life" stuff that came of Bush Jr. was BS, IMO.

Religion, or a religious fervor, has been major component in all of this(Although you always need a "devil" to fight, and the West fits the bill)...we have not seen this number of suicide bombers since the end of WWII. Have to believe in a greater power- be it religious in nature or nationalistic- if you are wrapping yourself up in bombs. Religion seems to trump rationality, provide a foundation for action, and is exploited by the architects of the Isis movement as well as any Madison Ave. advertising firm exploiting gullible Americans.

Complicated issues won't respond to simplistic solutions, and bombs and walls are simplistic.

You think it's BS that they hate democracy and hate our way of life?

It's a false narrative the government uses to conceal criticism of its foreign policy. These attacks are routed in foreign policy, always have been, not excusing the actions. Thats another trick the government uses- it says that by trying to understand the causes you're somehow excusing it. Thats gibberish. The problem now is both sides are stuck in a cycle of revenge- each side claiming they are responding to the other sides killing.

BRIGGS wrote:These people would kill many more than 150 people if they could and will. Because it's impossible to dscern who is and who is not isis innocent collateral damage to me is acceptable and on their hands.

And I'm speaking as if my daughter had her head blown off in France. Middle eastern countries na d people better police themselves now or people won't care what measures the US takes.

And you'd kill tens of millions. As someone who's family live in the middle east, I find your views on genocide very offensive. I get the anger but that doesn't excuse racism and genocide.

smackeddog wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This is whats going to happen. People from different countries will begin to fear others with middle eastern characteristics and it will become an us vs you scenario. Anyone can say whatever political incorrect stuff they want but of your daughter or son was shot in the head last night on France--- and I'm sure that goes for all french people and really the whole world. I'm sick of these idiots myself-- I think senator hatch said it before he died the ultimate reult is we will turn the middle e east into dust. For anyone breaking George Bush's balls taking the fight there for years was brilliant no matter what anyone says. We took it to them but this time it should be strategic nuclear war

Who is "them" and where are they, Briggs? You don't have a specific nation-state to invade or bomb.

So the second Bush was right to invade Iraq? That "war" was just more fuel for the hatred some have for "Western" nations and culture, and the post invasion rebuilding polcies of Bush created a large, willing, and motivated source of terrorists. Isis is made out of many of the displaced Ba'athists, and much of their conventional military success comes from former Iraqi military men.

Has to be a worldwide effort to deal with these guys now...sure- but the heart of that effort has to be the Middle Eastern nations themselves, and not just the U.S., Fr, British, Germans, Russians, etc., because Isis and other Islamic extremists will use this for a recruiting poster.

I have no problem with wiping these guys off the map, but you have to do it the right way, and its going to be hard to eradicate this movement without a lot of hard work and blood. Dropping nuclear bombs will do nothing positive except give some a temporary sense of satisfaction and kill many undeserving people.

The nations of the M.E. have to be put into a situation where they take the initiative, with the realization that inaction on their part will lead to economic punishment, but the only way the world can do this is to reach a point where our oil addiction is ended, since this is essentially the only hold that region has on the rest of the world.

What makes matters even trickier is the fact that a lot of these psychos are not just Middle Easterners or from one part of the world. They're everywhere and of all skin colors. Anders Breivik didn't look particularly Middle Eastern to me, nor did Timothy McVeigh. And what those two did was just as sinister as what just happened in Paris. But they do all have one common element. They all hate democracy, and their disgusting actions are benefitting those who would like to do away with democracy. Follow the money.

They don't do it because of a hatred of democracy. There is a psychological component- usually people who turn mass murderer have anger problems, feel alienated and have a lack of investment in society. This actually applies to a lot of people (probably myself included as a teenager!), for most they either meet someone, go into helping professions, or just focus on getting rich, but I think for some it sets them off a dark path. Some end up as high school massacrers, others become politicized by a cause (whether it's ideology or foreign policy or rage at deaths of people they identify with), which gives them a feeling of direction, identity and a direction for their anger. They then do what most criminals do, 'blame the victim' to abdicate themselves from any responsibility for the horrors they enact.

So it's basically a mixture of their own issues and their response to foreign policy.

Yeah...the hate democracy and "they hate our way of life" stuff that came of Bush Jr. was BS, IMO.

Religion, or a religious fervor, has been major component in all of this(Although you always need a "devil" to fight, and the West fits the bill)...we have not seen this number of suicide bombers since the end of WWII. Have to believe in a greater power- be it religious in nature or nationalistic- if you are wrapping yourself up in bombs. Religion seems to trump rationality, provide a foundation for action, and is exploited by the architects of the Isis movement as well as any Madison Ave. advertising firm exploiting gullible Americans.

Complicated issues won't respond to simplistic solutions, and bombs and walls are simplistic.

You think it's BS that they hate democracy and hate our way of life?

It's a false narrative the government uses to conceal criticism of its foreign policy. These attacks are routed in foreign policy, always have been, not excusing the actions. Thats another trick the government uses- it says that by trying to understand the causes you're somehow excusing it. Thats gibberish. The problem now is both sides are stuck in a cycle of revenge- each side claiming they are responding to the other sides killing.

I think you and Walt are misunderstanding me, and that makes sense because this is a very complicated issue. A big reason why so many people are so confused about what's really going on is the fact that this is very confusing. It's not just about 'revenge' either. If anything, a lot of our foreign policy maneuvers have BENEFITTED those who hate democracy. This isn't just about foreign policy. Earlier in this thread I compared what happened yesterday in Paris to the actions of Anders Breivik and Timothy McVeigh. I don't think their actions had anything to do with revenge for foreign policy disasters. Do you? And if you think the two are unrelated, I would ask you to think again. It's not as simple as just 'revenge'. Revenge is just a tool, an easy emotion to exploit, to get people to do something they otherwise would not want to do.