nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:i'm tired of the back and forth about the triangle. i see it being run 20% or less of the time. and sunday they hardly ran it at all.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by that? Most of the time the team is coming down court they are starting from a Triangle 2 guard alignment with one guard pushing and the other guard just behind to receive the Lag pass. Of course they will setup in Half court based on Triangle principles and depending on what the defense presents. The spacing is usually typical Triangle spacing. The only wrinkle is a Drag Screen at the top but that too is not new to the Triangle.

much of the time the defensive strategy is pressuring the first pass into the post so the ball is getting swung to the other side breaking down into a pick and roll or pick and pop. do you notice how few shots are being taken from the corners? i recall calderon taking maybe one on sunday. the spacing for the triangle has not been very good at all, and without the proper spacing the triangle is more easily defended. s it's no wonder you hear fisher saying he wants to push the ball before the defense has time to set, i would too given how lousy our spacing is so much of the time.

you have the resources to break down the offensive possessions, right? or that russian kid does, no? call me crazy... please educate me.

Aside from pushing the ball and looking for early offense which is the 1st step in the Triangle, the most recognizable part of the offense is the side Triangle but really that is only a small part of the entire offense. Most people can't recognize the rest of the offense. They don't know Blind Pig or any of the reads that lead to pin downs to free up shooters.

Once the ball is reversed most people are lost at that point and can't tell you what other parts of the Triangle are being run. They don't know the other actions in the offense so it looks like they aren't even running the Triangle when they are. Remember the Triangle isn't just a play it's an entire system.

The Triangle's spacing creates that overload on one side of the floor and if the Knicks get faster at execution they can take more advantage of the space on the other side. They are still a bit slow and this allows a defense to recover. The speed is what is missing right now. That will come in time after TONS of reps. They'll develop chemistry and eye contact can lead to more use of other cuts and passes that are available but not often used.

Personally I didn't know what the hell a triangle is. But I'm starting to see the shape of the triangle, when the post man catches the ball.....Especially with Calderon running the point. It also looks like a half court system and doesn't have any impacts no transition offense. But I always thought whenever they dump the ball to the big man on the elbow, the triangle begins. You start seeing back door cuts, screens, etc....

But I could be wrong. Seems like we have a double triangle system, with the point of the triangle on either side of the court, due to our twin tower lineup. And if Grant and Calderon are in the game at the same time, then Kobe is right. Grant runs his own pick and roll game, off the triangle due to his ability to break down the deffense. And Calderon runs it different based on his skill set, as a spot up shooter. But I could be wrong!

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:i'm tired of the back and forth about the triangle. i see it being run 20% or less of the time. and sunday they hardly ran it at all.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by that? Most of the time the team is coming down court they are starting from a Triangle 2 guard alignment with one guard pushing and the other guard just behind to receive the Lag pass. Of course they will setup in Half court based on Triangle principles and depending on what the defense presents. The spacing is usually typical Triangle spacing. The only wrinkle is a Drag Screen at the top but that too is not new to the Triangle.

I actually thought they ran the triangle base a lot. The base triangle is to get the ball around free throw extended and the PG setting in the corner to get the ball to the high post and a double cut occurs. Right now, we pass the ball to the high post from the top of the key and performing the double cut from there. Same principal different spot on the floor. You see the big on the other side flashing by the elbow and that is how KP gets his open mid range shots.

blkexec wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:i'm tired of the back and forth about the triangle. i see it being run 20% or less of the time. and sunday they hardly ran it at all.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by that? Most of the time the team is coming down court they are starting from a Triangle 2 guard alignment with one guard pushing and the other guard just behind to receive the Lag pass. Of course they will setup in Half court based on Triangle principles and depending on what the defense presents. The spacing is usually typical Triangle spacing. The only wrinkle is a Drag Screen at the top but that too is not new to the Triangle.

much of the time the defensive strategy is pressuring the first pass into the post so the ball is getting swung to the other side breaking down into a pick and roll or pick and pop. do you notice how few shots are being taken from the corners? i recall calderon taking maybe one on sunday. the spacing for the triangle has not been very good at all, and without the proper spacing the triangle is more easily defended. s it's no wonder you hear fisher saying he wants to push the ball before the defense has time to set, i would too given how lousy our spacing is so much of the time.

you have the resources to break down the offensive possessions, right? or that russian kid does, no? call me crazy... please educate me.

Aside from pushing the ball and looking for early offense which is the 1st step in the Triangle, the most recognizable part of the offense is the side Triangle but really that is only a small part of the entire offense. Most people can't recognize the rest of the offense. They don't know Blind Pig or any of the reads that lead to pin downs to free up shooters.

Once the ball is reversed most people are lost at that point and can't tell you what other parts of the Triangle are being run. They don't know the other actions in the offense so it looks like they aren't even running the Triangle when they are. Remember the Triangle isn't just a play it's an entire system.

The Triangle's spacing creates that overload on one side of the floor and if the Knicks get faster at execution they can take more advantage of the space on the other side. They are still a bit slow and this allows a defense to recover. The speed is what is missing right now. That will come in time after TONS of reps. They'll develop chemistry and eye contact can lead to more use of other cuts and passes that are available but not often used.

Personally I didn't know what the hell a triangle is. But I'm starting to see the shape of the triangle, when the post man catches the ball.....Especially with Calderon running the point. It also looks like a half court system and doesn't have any impacts no transition offense. But I always thought whenever they dump the ball to the big man on the elbow, the triangle begins. You start seeing back door cuts, screens, etc....

But I could be wrong. Seems like we have a double triangle system, with the point of the triangle on either side of the court, due to our twin tower lineup. And if Grant and Calderon are in the game at the same time, then Kobe is right. Grant runs his own pick and roll game, off the triangle due to his ability to break down the deffense. And Calderon runs it different based on his skill set, as a spot up shooter. But I could be wrong!

This would all be less of an issue if they didn't start calling it the Triangle Offense. The original name was the Triple Post Offense. Calling it the Triangle is an oversimplification of just what is entailed in the entire offense. There's a lot more than the Side Triangle in this system.

Yes it's not always necessary for the Knicks to get into the Side Triangle in order to get a good scoring opportunity. That's the real goal in the 1st place. TO GET GREAT SHOTS. So if your players have a great scoring opp they should take it. No need to slow it down just to set up the Triangle. It's always easier to score against a defense that isn't set yet. Grant is very good at doing this so it's going to be common to see him look for a drag screen and drive off of that or work a PnR. Against a set Defense then you do want to run the Side Triangle etc.

Kobe can joke but he was ALWAYS breaking the Triangle and calling his own number. Of course he did work the Triangle too, but his role was to attack the defense so he did. When they added Pau and Bynum you would see not only the Side Triangle but other actions in the offense that wouldn't look like the Triangle. They had a lot of Big to Big plays which were really effective. This team still has a lot to learn in terms of the entire Triangle System and also just chemistry between each player.