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knicks need to upgrade the bank court
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StarksEwing1
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11/8/2015  10:25 AM
knickscity wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
franco12 wrote:could you imagine how much worse it would be if we hadn't traded for Grant, and were stuck with Tim Hardaway Jr still?

Maybe we could trade for him back since he hasn't played yet?

Did Early get any time in pre season at the 2g spot?

There is no reason why Gallo can't start and take at least 30 minutes every game, and rotate Sasha & Grant in to cover the other minutes, with Calderon limited to spot minutes until Afflalo gets back.

the grant trade was tremendous. Phil has made some great moves along with some terrible moves like calderon

All GM's have moves that don't pan out. Probably even more so for rookie GM's. It's the nature of the biz. Overall it looks like this summer was a very good set of moves. Phil still has work to do tho. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does from here. If he can make one more good move to improve the guard situation that could be a HUGE difference maker.

i had a feeling you would respond immediately after i said phil made ONE bad move. I have said many times phil has done a good job for the most part but theres nothing wrong with pointing out a mistake

I think it is a move that didn't pan out but it wasn't necessarily a mistake based on what he was trying to get out of Jose. Jose was supposed to be the bridge to the future PG. He was never the permanent solution. He had been solid up to that point and looked like he could do the job well enough to allow time to develop his replacement. There was nothing to indicate he would struggle this much.


Calderon had multiple years left on his deal when acquired. In no way was he a "gap". The downward trend of Calderon was expected. He's older, doesnt do alot of things pg's do in this game today, doesnt defend, and only takes wide open uncontested basically set shots. Even if he were hitting his shots at his normal clip he'd still be an awful player. Acquiring him was a mistake when the trade was agreed upon.
100 percent correct
AUTOADVERT
smackeddog
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11/8/2015  10:36 AM
Calderon has been so bad, I would consider Felton an upgrade- I never thought such a thing would be possible
EnySpree
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11/8/2015  10:36 AM
franco12 wrote:could you imagine how much worse it would be if we hadn't traded for Grant, and were stuck with Tim Hardaway Jr still?

Maybe we could trade for him back since he hasn't played yet?

Did Early get any time in pre season at the 2g spot?

There is no reason why Gallo can't start and take at least 30 minutes every game, and rotate Sasha & Grant in to cover the other minutes, with Calderon limited to spot minutes until Afflalo gets back.

Crazy!

Hardaway doesn't play defense. Hawks coach ain't having that apparently

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StarksEwing1
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11/8/2015  10:37 AM
smackeddog wrote:Calderon has been so bad, I would consider Felton an upgrade- I never thought such a thing would be possible
i understand tyson was coming off a subpar year but we shoulda got more and never should have taken back a worse contract
nixluva
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11/8/2015  10:54 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
franco12 wrote:could you imagine how much worse it would be if we hadn't traded for Grant, and were stuck with Tim Hardaway Jr still?

Maybe we could trade for him back since he hasn't played yet?

Did Early get any time in pre season at the 2g spot?

There is no reason why Gallo can't start and take at least 30 minutes every game, and rotate Sasha & Grant in to cover the other minutes, with Calderon limited to spot minutes until Afflalo gets back.

the grant trade was tremendous. Phil has made some great moves along with some terrible moves like calderon

All GM's have moves that don't pan out. Probably even more so for rookie GM's. It's the nature of the biz. Overall it looks like this summer was a very good set of moves. Phil still has work to do tho. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does from here. If he can make one more good move to improve the guard situation that could be a HUGE difference maker.

i had a feeling you would respond immediately after i said phil made ONE bad move. I have said many times phil has done a good job for the most part but theres nothing wrong with pointing out a mistake

I think it is a move that didn't pan out but it wasn't necessarily a mistake based on what he was trying to get out of Jose. Jose was supposed to be the bridge to the future PG. He was never the permanent solution. He had been solid up to that point and looked like he could do the job well enough to allow time to develop his replacement. There was nothing to indicate he would struggle this much.


Calderon had multiple years left on his deal when acquired. In no way was he a "gap". The downward trend of Calderon was expected. He's older, doesnt do alot of things pg's do in this game today, doesnt defend, and only takes wide open uncontested basically set shots. Even if he were hitting his shots at his normal clip he'd still be an awful player. Acquiring him was a mistake when the trade was agreed upon.
100 percent correct

Phil was looking at what Jose had still been able to do as a PG who could space the floor and run a team. It's not hard to see his shooting would've been an upgrade. There was nothing to indicate he wouldn't be at least close to his normal level of shooting efficiency and low turnovers.

Hollinger Stats - True Shooting Percentage - Qualified Point Guards
RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
1 Pablo Prigioni, NY 66 19.4 .642 47.1 12.4 10.8 3.2 8.8 5.9 13.02 38.7 1.3
2 Stephen Curry, GS 78 36.5 .610 26.7 11.8 28.2 1.8 10.9 6.4 24.13 557.6 18.6
3 Jose Calderon, DAL 81 30.5 .596 30.0 8.2 16.4 1.4 7.6 4.5 15.25 156.4 5.2
4 Patty Mills, SA 81 18.9 .588 16.3 6.9 21.2 2.6 9.6 6.2 18.80 177.7 5.9
2
ChuckBuck
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11/8/2015  11:07 AM
Can we stop talking about 2 or 3 years ago Jose? Those "high efficiency" as a scoring point guard days are long over.

Phil botched this one unfortunately. Gotta take responsibility and the L for Calderón. Just a bad move all around, even though we unloaded Fat and Flu, we didn't get shyt in return for them. Hose-zay probably getting moved soon, Dalembert bust, Ellington bust, and Larkin bust.

Hey, Phil's learning on the job too!

knickscity
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11/8/2015  11:07 AM
His norms would still contribute to a tally of losses. calderon did ok in dallas because he wasnt the primary ball handler, monta was. calderon really didnt play the point in Dallas, so if phil did the trade for the Dallas version, he really didnt do his homework.

here's some real data...

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314DAL1.HTM Notice calderon was a minus on the floor that season, easily their worst starter.

Here's one more....

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314DAL2.HTM

Notice that most of top 5 man units featuring caldeon are all in the negative. he hasnt been starter quality in a while.

StarksEwing1
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11/8/2015  11:10 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:Can we stop talking about 2 or 3 years ago Jose? Those "high efficiency" as a scoring point guard days are long over.

Phil botched this one unfortunately. Gotta take responsibility and the L for Calderón. Just a bad move all around, even though we unloaded Fat and Flu, we didn't get shyt in return for them. Hose-zay probably getting moved soon, Dalembert bust, Ellington bust, and Larkin bust.

Hey, Phil's learning on the job too!

exactly. Its ok to admit it was a bad move then and now
masud
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11/8/2015  11:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2015  11:32 AM
Yeah let's trade for Jeff Teague... Smdh
wargames
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11/8/2015  11:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2015  12:02 PM
Stevo718 wrote:I agree. As soon as Williams UPS his value I'd trade him for a SG.

I could see Phil trying to move Seraphin (whose 2.8 is great value for a player) or even Early before they move D Will. Though considering Phil seems more like a forward thinker either of those guys (but more likely Seraphin) could be moved to a team for a late first round pick/second round picks as a salary move/playoff push trade for them and a young asset for the knicks.

Also they have Jimmer, Thanasis, and Trice on the D league team. If any of those 3 show any improvement they can be brought up quick. That's the one good thing about this back court crisis. The way to fix it are already in place, the knicks just need to do some reorganization of assets.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
smackeddog
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11/8/2015  12:06 PM
There are actually a reasonable number of UFA PGs next offseason, one big name and several options who should be relatively cheap (Phil has usually made do with cheap options at PG, plus it allows Grant to become the starter if he shows he's capable of it):

Mike Conley

Vasquez
Chalmers
Cole
Bayless
Sessions
Gary Neal

And as for SGs, no realistic big names, but a few decent cheap options if Afflalo looks bad/decideds to bail:

Eric Gordon (no thanks!)
Courtney Lee (Who I would target)
Kent Bazemore
OJ Mayo.

Again no one to get excited about. Really our only option is to improve from within. Ideally if Galloway and Grant can hold down the PG spot, I would add Courtney Lee for SG and have Afflalo come in off the bench. If Galloway looks better as a SG, just target one of the cheap PG options and have them either start or back up Grant.

Another option would be take an IT style gamble and trade for Ricky Rubio (which I wouldn't do, but is a possibility if the Twolves stumble this season)

knicks need to upgrade the bank court

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