holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

This team is MOSTLY comprised of young and unproven players so them looking a bit unsure and lost at times isn't coaching. It's what you get with a bunch of young players and when what should be your top players in Melo and Afflalo not fully healthy and carrying the action as intended.

Not to mention it's only 5 games against tough defensive playoff teams that make most teams look bad offensively!!! F'n PERSPECTIVE...

Thus the reason most coaches eases rookies into the line up..Enough f'n perspective for u?..

Why are u so rude dude?

My so called rudeness is due to your post. Talking about Woodson having offensive plans? Can't think of many worse examples of offensive creativity. The only thing worth talking about he stole from MDA.

On top of that you're talking about the rest of the guys having an offensive game plan outside of Melo? The game plan is the Triangle System which is time tested! They've already been given a game plan but it's gonna take time to perfect their execution as a unit and as individuals. They're being taught to think the game at a level far beyond anything Woodson tried to teach. When the team really needs Woody he had NOTHING! Vogel laughed at him!

They have a fully formed game plan but top defensive teams have been able to take our players out of what they want to do. They look to disrupt the timing of our motion and play the passing lanes. This will take more time for our players to react to what the D is doing and run counters to the D they face. It's a process. Our kids aren't Jedi yet. They have much to learn.

MDA was too dumb to understand he needed to turn Melo loose..What did Woodson do with the exact same players?.Results!!

Yeah Melo was being held back by MDA! SMDH! I can't converse with you if you're not going to stick to reality. Melo's struggles were self created. Melo has NEVER looked as impressive as he has running MDA's offense with the Olympic teams. He wasn't playing Melo ball then which only proves Melo can in FACT play a different way but he chooses not to. Literally everyone knows that Melo is best when he goes quick and in the flow of the offense rather than hold the ball and go ISO MELO.

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about offensive tactics since I actually have MDA's plays and Tex Winters book as well. I spend time learning basketball X's and O's. If I was just talking out of my ass about this stuff it would be one thing but I'm not.

It's gonna take time for our players to really master the offense and execute at high speed which is necessary to counter what defenses want to do. It has to become second nature and instinctive. The decision making and team chemistry will take time. This is a process. Let's leave Woody in the trash heap of BBall history. He's not one of the great minds in BBall history.

It's not ISO Melo, it's common sense..Look at Phil's ring count with Kobe and MJ taking 27/28 shots per in the playoffs..Wake up for once..Just this once...Look at results...Triangle hell, Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Gasol was posting guys up and taking them...U can read all the books you want..Phil will tell you 25 shots a game isn't basketball..Mike was taking 28 per..I don't see him giving back any rings because it wasn't basketball..

OK keep talking the nonsense you're spouting from a complete oversimplification of how those teams won. I'm done with you because you're speaking from ignorance of the subject rather than a full understanding of how great offensive BBall works. Go dig up Knicks title team tapes or just re-watch the Spurs and how they win for a clinic in real BBall. This is what Fish n Phil are trying to teach these players but it's rough in the beginning.

Yes ISO looks are built into the Triangle. That's not saying anything special! That's not what makes it work tho. You have to have proper execution of all the other aspects of the offense too. If it's just the ISO that won't be enough to win 2 or 3 Titles in a row. You always need great individual talent in order to win but that's not the complete picture. I suggest you at least have some respect for the fact that I'm read up on this subject and not just talking out of my ass. You don't have to agree with my take but it's based on knowledge of the subject.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

This team is MOSTLY comprised of young and unproven players so them looking a bit unsure and lost at times isn't coaching. It's what you get with a bunch of young players and when what should be your top players in Melo and Afflalo not fully healthy and carrying the action as intended.

Not to mention it's only 5 games against tough defensive playoff teams that make most teams look bad offensively!!! F'n PERSPECTIVE...

Thus the reason most coaches eases rookies into the line up..Enough f'n perspective for u?..

Why are u so rude dude?

My so called rudeness is due to your post. Talking about Woodson having offensive plans? Can't think of many worse examples of offensive creativity. The only thing worth talking about he stole from MDA.

On top of that you're talking about the rest of the guys having an offensive game plan outside of Melo? The game plan is the Triangle System which is time tested! They've already been given a game plan but it's gonna take time to perfect their execution as a unit and as individuals. They're being taught to think the game at a level far beyond anything Woodson tried to teach. When the team really needs Woody he had NOTHING! Vogel laughed at him!

They have a fully formed game plan but top defensive teams have been able to take our players out of what they want to do. They look to disrupt the timing of our motion and play the passing lanes. This will take more time for our players to react to what the D is doing and run counters to the D they face. It's a process. Our kids aren't Jedi yet. They have much to learn.

MDA was too dumb to understand he needed to turn Melo loose..What did Woodson do with the exact same players?.Results!!

Yeah Melo was being held back by MDA! SMDH! I can't converse with you if you're not going to stick to reality. Melo's struggles were self created. Melo has NEVER looked as impressive as he has running MDA's offense with the Olympic teams. He wasn't playing Melo ball then which only proves Melo can in FACT play a different way but he chooses not to. Literally everyone knows that Melo is best when he goes quick and in the flow of the offense rather than hold the ball and go ISO MELO.

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about offensive tactics since I actually have MDA's plays and Tex Winters book as well. I spend time learning basketball X's and O's. If I was just talking out of my ass about this stuff it would be one thing but I'm not.

It's gonna take time for our players to really master the offense and execute at high speed which is necessary to counter what defenses want to do. It has to become second nature and instinctive. The decision making and team chemistry will take time. This is a process. Let's leave Woody in the trash heap of BBall history. He's not one of the great minds in BBall history.

It's not ISO Melo, it's common sense..Look at Phil's ring count with Kobe and MJ taking 27/28 shots per in the playoffs..Wake up for once..Just this once...Look at results...Triangle hell, Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Gasol was posting guys up and taking them...U can read all the books you want..Phil will tell you 25 shots a game isn't basketball..Mike was taking 28 per..I don't see him giving back any rings because it wasn't basketball..

OK keep talking the nonsense you're spouting from a complete oversimplification of how those teams won. I'm done with you because you're speaking from ignorance of the subject rather than a full understanding of how great offensive BBall works. Go dig up Knicks title team tapes or just re-watch the Spurs and how they win for a clinic in real BBall. This is what Fish n Phil are trying to teach these players but it's rough in the beginning.

Yes ISO looks are built into the Triangle. That's not saying anything special! That's not what makes it work tho. You have to have proper execution of all the other aspects of the offense too. If it's just the ISO that won't be enough to win 2 or 3 Titles in a row. You always need great individual talent in order to win but that's not the complete picture. I suggest you at least have some respect for the fact that I'm read up on this subject and not just talking out of my ass. You don't have to agree with my take but it's based on knowledge of the subject.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

This team is MOSTLY comprised of young and unproven players so them looking a bit unsure and lost at times isn't coaching. It's what you get with a bunch of young players and when what should be your top players in Melo and Afflalo not fully healthy and carrying the action as intended.

Not to mention it's only 5 games against tough defensive playoff teams that make most teams look bad offensively!!! F'n PERSPECTIVE...

Thus the reason most coaches eases rookies into the line up..Enough f'n perspective for u?..

Why are u so rude dude?

My so called rudeness is due to your post. Talking about Woodson having offensive plans? Can't think of many worse examples of offensive creativity. The only thing worth talking about he stole from MDA.

On top of that you're talking about the rest of the guys having an offensive game plan outside of Melo? The game plan is the Triangle System which is time tested! They've already been given a game plan but it's gonna take time to perfect their execution as a unit and as individuals. They're being taught to think the game at a level far beyond anything Woodson tried to teach. When the team really needs Woody he had NOTHING! Vogel laughed at him!

They have a fully formed game plan but top defensive teams have been able to take our players out of what they want to do. They look to disrupt the timing of our motion and play the passing lanes. This will take more time for our players to react to what the D is doing and run counters to the D they face. It's a process. Our kids aren't Jedi yet. They have much to learn.

MDA was too dumb to understand he needed to turn Melo loose..What did Woodson do with the exact same players?.Results!!

Yeah Melo was being held back by MDA! SMDH! I can't converse with you if you're not going to stick to reality. Melo's struggles were self created. Melo has NEVER looked as impressive as he has running MDA's offense with the Olympic teams. He wasn't playing Melo ball then which only proves Melo can in FACT play a different way but he chooses not to. Literally everyone knows that Melo is best when he goes quick and in the flow of the offense rather than hold the ball and go ISO MELO.

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about offensive tactics since I actually have MDA's plays and Tex Winters book as well. I spend time learning basketball X's and O's. If I was just talking out of my ass about this stuff it would be one thing but I'm not.

It's gonna take time for our players to really master the offense and execute at high speed which is necessary to counter what defenses want to do. It has to become second nature and instinctive. The decision making and team chemistry will take time. This is a process. Let's leave Woody in the trash heap of BBall history. He's not one of the great minds in BBall history.

It's not ISO Melo, it's common sense..Look at Phil's ring count with Kobe and MJ taking 27/28 shots per in the playoffs..Wake up for once..Just this once...Look at results...Triangle hell, Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Gasol was posting guys up and taking them...U can read all the books you want..Phil will tell you 25 shots a game isn't basketball..Mike was taking 28 per..I don't see him giving back any rings because it wasn't basketball..

OK keep talking the nonsense you're spouting from a complete oversimplification of how those teams won. I'm done with you because you're speaking from ignorance of the subject rather than a full understanding of how great offensive BBall works. Go dig up Knicks title team tapes or just re-watch the Spurs and how they win for a clinic in real BBall. This is what Fish n Phil are trying to teach these players but it's rough in the beginning.

Yes ISO looks are built into the Triangle. That's not saying anything special! That's not what makes it work tho. You have to have proper execution of all the other aspects of the offense too. If it's just the ISO that won't be enough to win 2 or 3 Titles in a row. You always need great individual talent in order to win but that's not the complete picture. I suggest you at least have some respect for the fact that I'm read up on this subject and not just talking out of my ass. You don't have to agree with my take but it's based on knowledge of the subject.

You are talking out of you arse when you mention MDA..MJ was mostly ISO, So was Kobe..what that 11 rings??
C
U want respect and you show no one you show no one respect...

There's a difference between Selfish ISO Ball and getting ISO or One on One looks in the flow of an offense. Why are you getting stuck on MDA when he's not the subject of this argument? By talking about MJ and Kobe as ISO players you show your ignorance. Of course they would get a lot of freedom to score on one on one looks and pretty much any look. Great players can do that but winning as consistently and repeating as champs is about more than just one on one ability.

My point is really that our players are being taught how to play the game at a higher level. It takes time to teach and perfect. You're talking like this is late in the season rather than 5 games into the process of developing these players. You seem to think you have a strong argument but I'm sorry but you're not standing on solid ground. You're not even arguing the same point you started off with. You're on some tangent about MJ and Kobe now which on its face is ridiculous when you have to use all time great individual talents to try and prove some point. Where is your point outside of mentioning the Elite of Elite players in league history?

You show your ignorance when you ignore reality, facts and results...

Very happy. Kristaps is making 20 year old mistakes. He's only going to get better than the current double double machine with mad range.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

LOL, I had the same reaction.

Woodson, successful, and magic should never be mentioned in the same breath ever again.

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

LOL, I had the same reaction.

Woodson, successful, and magic should never be mentioned in the same breath ever again.

You two have helped destroy a board where good posters once congregate to talk pasonate basketball..You have zero credibility..You should ask yourselves if you add or subtract to the collective content..Your ultimate act of selfishness is on full display as we lose intellect and deep discussion to the various conversations..You two need to look in the mirror and ask if you are adding to what two guys have worked hard to build..You have zero sweat equity in what's happening here..Don't ruin it for others..

Stop ruining it with bad posts. Woodson had 2 maybe 3 offensive plays/sets. Horns, high pick and roll, and ISO Melo/JR.

Luckily for the 54 win mirage, he had Coach Kidd directing traffic for most of the season.

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

LOL, I had the same reaction.

Woodson, successful, and magic should never be mentioned in the same breath ever again.

You two have helped destroy a board where good posters once congregate to talk pasonate basketball..You have zero credibility..You should ask yourselves if you add or subtract to the collective content..Your ultimate act of selfishness is on full display as we lose intellect and deep discussion to the various conversations..You two need to look in the mirror and ask if you are adding to what two guys have worked hard to build..You have zero sweat equity in what's happening here..Don't ruin it for others..

Stop ruining it with bad posts. Woodson had 2 maybe 3 offensive plays/sets. Horns, high pick and roll, and ISO Melo/JR.

Luckily for the 54 win mirage, he had Coach Kidd directing traffic for most of the season.

except when Melo (the only guy not named Lebron won player of the month).

Go look at how many shots Kidd hit in the playoffs and come back to me. Kidd for MVP! Kidd was 3rd in MVP votes that year right?

Kidd was the unquestioned leader of that squad, along with some help from KT, Camby, and Rasheed.

Without the vets, Melo and the Knicks reverted back to 37 wins then 17 wins, because Melo don't know how to lead.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

This team is MOSTLY comprised of young and unproven players so them looking a bit unsure and lost at times isn't coaching. It's what you get with a bunch of young players and when what should be your top players in Melo and Afflalo not fully healthy and carrying the action as intended.

Not to mention it's only 5 games against tough defensive playoff teams that make most teams look bad offensively!!! F'n PERSPECTIVE...

Thus the reason most coaches eases rookies into the line up..Enough f'n perspective for u?..

Why are u so rude dude?

My so called rudeness is due to your post. Talking about Woodson having offensive plans? Can't think of many worse examples of offensive creativity. The only thing worth talking about he stole from MDA.

On top of that you're talking about the rest of the guys having an offensive game plan outside of Melo? The game plan is the Triangle System which is time tested! They've already been given a game plan but it's gonna take time to perfect their execution as a unit and as individuals. They're being taught to think the game at a level far beyond anything Woodson tried to teach. When the team really needs Woody he had NOTHING! Vogel laughed at him!

They have a fully formed game plan but top defensive teams have been able to take our players out of what they want to do. They look to disrupt the timing of our motion and play the passing lanes. This will take more time for our players to react to what the D is doing and run counters to the D they face. It's a process. Our kids aren't Jedi yet. They have much to learn.

MDA was too dumb to understand he needed to turn Melo loose..What did Woodson do with the exact same players?.Results!!

Yeah Melo was being held back by MDA! SMDH! I can't converse with you if you're not going to stick to reality. Melo's struggles were self created. Melo has NEVER looked as impressive as he has running MDA's offense with the Olympic teams. He wasn't playing Melo ball then which only proves Melo can in FACT play a different way but he chooses not to. Literally everyone knows that Melo is best when he goes quick and in the flow of the offense rather than hold the ball and go ISO MELO.

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about offensive tactics since I actually have MDA's plays and Tex Winters book as well. I spend time learning basketball X's and O's. If I was just talking out of my ass about this stuff it would be one thing but I'm not.

It's gonna take time for our players to really master the offense and execute at high speed which is necessary to counter what defenses want to do. It has to become second nature and instinctive. The decision making and team chemistry will take time. This is a process. Let's leave Woody in the trash heap of BBall history. He's not one of the great minds in BBall history.

It's not ISO Melo, it's common sense..Look at Phil's ring count with Kobe and MJ taking 27/28 shots per in the playoffs..Wake up for once..Just this once...Look at results...Triangle hell, Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Gasol was posting guys up and taking them...U can read all the books you want..Phil will tell you 25 shots a game isn't basketball..Mike was taking 28 per..I don't see him giving back any rings because it wasn't basketball..

you're speaking in half-truths as usual. you'll never come across as the least bit persuasive that way.

michael jordan NEVER took 28 shots. his 3rd year he took 27.8 shots per game and his team went 40-42 before being swept away by the celtics. michael jordan took closer to 24 shots a game during the bulk of his career. so you want to compare melo to jordan now, and give him the same "freedoms?" omfg dude

michael jordan was a lockdown defender-- something melo is not.
michael jordan averaged close to 6 assists a game-- melo averages practically half that.
michael jordan had a usage to assist ratio of around 1.37:1 so he shared the ball quite well and did not cause his offense to stagnate-- melo's average is closer to 2.5:1 which DOES cause his offense to stagnate.
michael jordan's fg% is right around 51% for the bulk of his career, melo's is a very borderline 45.5%
michael jordan's TS%, even without a 3-point shot in his repertoire-- is close to 60% for the bulk of his career-- melo, with the three ball, is a very borderline 55%

but yeah, lets (a) speak of michael jordan and carmelo anthiny in the same breath and (b) by speaking of jordan and melo in the same breath, lets give melo carte blanche to do what he wants in much the same way it appears that jordan had carte blanche (even though both the eye test and the statistics put the lie to that notion.)

How many low percent shots are ok? NONE

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

This team is MOSTLY comprised of young and unproven players so them looking a bit unsure and lost at times isn't coaching. It's what you get with a bunch of young players and when what should be your top players in Melo and Afflalo not fully healthy and carrying the action as intended.

Not to mention it's only 5 games against tough defensive playoff teams that make most teams look bad offensively!!! F'n PERSPECTIVE...

Thus the reason most coaches eases rookies into the line up..Enough f'n perspective for u?..

Why are u so rude dude?

My so called rudeness is due to your post. Talking about Woodson having offensive plans? Can't think of many worse examples of offensive creativity. The only thing worth talking about he stole from MDA.

On top of that you're talking about the rest of the guys having an offensive game plan outside of Melo? The game plan is the Triangle System which is time tested! They've already been given a game plan but it's gonna take time to perfect their execution as a unit and as individuals. They're being taught to think the game at a level far beyond anything Woodson tried to teach. When the team really needs Woody he had NOTHING! Vogel laughed at him!

They have a fully formed game plan but top defensive teams have been able to take our players out of what they want to do. They look to disrupt the timing of our motion and play the passing lanes. This will take more time for our players to react to what the D is doing and run counters to the D they face. It's a process. Our kids aren't Jedi yet. They have much to learn.

MDA was too dumb to understand he needed to turn Melo loose..What did Woodson do with the exact same players?.Results!!

Yeah Melo was being held back by MDA! SMDH! I can't converse with you if you're not going to stick to reality. Melo's struggles were self created. Melo has NEVER looked as impressive as he has running MDA's offense with the Olympic teams. He wasn't playing Melo ball then which only proves Melo can in FACT play a different way but he chooses not to. Literally everyone knows that Melo is best when he goes quick and in the flow of the offense rather than hold the ball and go ISO MELO.

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about offensive tactics since I actually have MDA's plays and Tex Winters book as well. I spend time learning basketball X's and O's. If I was just talking out of my ass about this stuff it would be one thing but I'm not.

It's gonna take time for our players to really master the offense and execute at high speed which is necessary to counter what defenses want to do. It has to become second nature and instinctive. The decision making and team chemistry will take time. This is a process. Let's leave Woody in the trash heap of BBall history. He's not one of the great minds in BBall history.

It's not ISO Melo, it's common sense..Look at Phil's ring count with Kobe and MJ taking 27/28 shots per in the playoffs..Wake up for once..Just this once...Look at results...Triangle hell, Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Gasol was posting guys up and taking them...U can read all the books you want..Phil will tell you 25 shots a game isn't basketball..Mike was taking 28 per..I don't see him giving back any rings because it wasn't basketball..

OK keep talking the nonsense you're spouting from a complete oversimplification of how those teams won. I'm done with you because you're speaking from ignorance of the subject rather than a full understanding of how great offensive BBall works. Go dig up Knicks title team tapes or just re-watch the Spurs and how they win for a clinic in real BBall. This is what Fish n Phil are trying to teach these players but it's rough in the beginning.

Yes ISO looks are built into the Triangle. That's not saying anything special! That's not what makes it work tho. You have to have proper execution of all the other aspects of the offense too. If it's just the ISO that won't be enough to win 2 or 3 Titles in a row. You always need great individual talent in order to win but that's not the complete picture. I suggest you at least have some respect for the fact that I'm read up on this subject and not just talking out of my ass. You don't have to agree with my take but it's based on knowledge of the subject.

You are talking out of you arse when you mention MDA..MJ was mostly ISO, So was Kobe..what that 11 rings??
C
U want respect and you show no one you show no one respect...

There's a difference between Selfish ISO Ball and getting ISO or One on One looks in the flow of an offense. Why are you getting stuck on MDA when he's not the subject of this argument? By talking about MJ and Kobe as ISO players you show your ignorance. Of course they would get a lot of freedom to score on one on one looks and pretty much any look. Great players can do that but winning as consistently and repeating as champs is about more than just one on one ability.

My point is really that our players are being taught how to play the game at a higher level. It takes time to teach and perfect. You're talking like this is late in the season rather than 5 games into the process of developing these players. You seem to think you have a strong argument but I'm sorry but you're not standing on solid ground. You're not even arguing the same point you started off with. You're on some tangent about MJ and Kobe now which on its face is ridiculous when you have to use all time great individual talents to try and prove some point. Where is your point outside of mentioning the Elite of Elite players in league history?

You show your ignorance when you ignore reality, facts and results...

You are making absolutely ZERO sense. It seems like you're trying to argue with me about a very narrow aspect of what i've been talking about. I'm talking about Phil and Fish teaching these players how to play Winning Team BBall. They already have an offensive strategy, but it's going to take time for the players to learn and perfect it. You are getting all bent out of shape about my mentioning MDA as if that's the key point i'm trying to make. MDA is a flawed coach but he's also a very influential offensive mind in NBA. He's had an impact on how teams play to this very day. You can't even begin to compare his impact with that of Woody.

MDA actually was pretty close to getting to the finals with his teams and sure he didn't make it but very few teams do. That doesn't invalidate his offensive schemes and philosophies which are league wide now. MDA was all about TEAM ball. The same can be said about Pop and PJax. So we are being led by a man who is all about Ball and Player movement and thinking the game at a high level. We have to allow TIME for our players to be developed in this style of play. It's not going to be perfect at game 5 of the NBA season.

I have to laugh at your take on Phil's Bulls and Lakers teams and your oversimplification that its the ISO's that made it all work. LOL. ISO or One on One looks are built into the Triangle offense. So yeah there's going to be a lot of ISO but not to the detriment of Team Ball. There was a lot of great ball and player movement going on that you're ignoring to try and make some lame point.

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:The key for the Knicks will be to set up an alternative offensive strategy outside of Melo..It's the reason Woodson was successful here...The four other guys have to find a way to establish an offensive game plan then let Melo either work in or do his thing and play off that..With Woodson, Felton played pick and roll ball and the rest of the team fed off that...Chandler got alley hoops, the rest set up at the three point line for the kick out and Kidd made the extra pass...

So whether it's triangle or what, Fisher has to develop that offensive strategy then work Melo in spots...Worked like magic for Woodson...They tried it on a couple of sets last night and didn't look fluid...They need work...There is no offensive rhythm or anything where they come down court and say this is what we are going to do outside of Melo...They have to get there if they want to be a .500 team...

This team is MOSTLY comprised of young and unproven players so them looking a bit unsure and lost at times isn't coaching. It's what you get with a bunch of young players and when what should be your top players in Melo and Afflalo not fully healthy and carrying the action as intended.

Not to mention it's only 5 games against tough defensive playoff teams that make most teams look bad offensively!!! F'n PERSPECTIVE...

Thus the reason most coaches eases rookies into the line up..Enough f'n perspective for u?..

Why are u so rude dude?

My so called rudeness is due to your post. Talking about Woodson having offensive plans? Can't think of many worse examples of offensive creativity. The only thing worth talking about he stole from MDA.

On top of that you're talking about the rest of the guys having an offensive game plan outside of Melo? The game plan is the Triangle System which is time tested! They've already been given a game plan but it's gonna take time to perfect their execution as a unit and as individuals. They're being taught to think the game at a level far beyond anything Woodson tried to teach. When the team really needs Woody he had NOTHING! Vogel laughed at him!

They have a fully formed game plan but top defensive teams have been able to take our players out of what they want to do. They look to disrupt the timing of our motion and play the passing lanes. This will take more time for our players to react to what the D is doing and run counters to the D they face. It's a process. Our kids aren't Jedi yet. They have much to learn.

MDA was too dumb to understand he needed to turn Melo loose..What did Woodson do with the exact same players?.Results!!

Yeah Melo was being held back by MDA! SMDH! I can't converse with you if you're not going to stick to reality. Melo's struggles were self created. Melo has NEVER looked as impressive as he has running MDA's offense with the Olympic teams. He wasn't playing Melo ball then which only proves Melo can in FACT play a different way but he chooses not to. Literally everyone knows that Melo is best when he goes quick and in the flow of the offense rather than hold the ball and go ISO MELO.

Look I'm not gonna argue with you about offensive tactics since I actually have MDA's plays and Tex Winters book as well. I spend time learning basketball X's and O's. If I was just talking out of my ass about this stuff it would be one thing but I'm not.

It's gonna take time for our players to really master the offense and execute at high speed which is necessary to counter what defenses want to do. It has to become second nature and instinctive. The decision making and team chemistry will take time. This is a process. Let's leave Woody in the trash heap of BBall history. He's not one of the great minds in BBall history.

It's not ISO Melo, it's common sense..Look at Phil's ring count with Kobe and MJ taking 27/28 shots per in the playoffs..Wake up for once..Just this once...Look at results...Triangle hell, Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Gasol was posting guys up and taking them...U can read all the books you want..Phil will tell you 25 shots a game isn't basketball..Mike was taking 28 per..I don't see him giving back any rings because it wasn't basketball..

OK keep talking the nonsense you're spouting from a complete oversimplification of how those teams won. I'm done with you because you're speaking from ignorance of the subject rather than a full understanding of how great offensive BBall works. Go dig up Knicks title team tapes or just re-watch the Spurs and how they win for a clinic in real BBall. This is what Fish n Phil are trying to teach these players but it's rough in the beginning.

Yes ISO looks are built into the Triangle. That's not saying anything special! That's not what makes it work tho. You have to have proper execution of all the other aspects of the offense too. If it's just the ISO that won't be enough to win 2 or 3 Titles in a row. You always need great individual talent in order to win but that's not the complete picture. I suggest you at least have some respect for the fact that I'm read up on this subject and not just talking out of my ass. You don't have to agree with my take but it's based on knowledge of the subject.

You are talking out of you arse when you mention MDA..MJ was mostly ISO, So was Kobe..what that 11 rings??
C
U want respect and you show no one you show no one respect...

There's a difference between Selfish ISO Ball and getting ISO or One on One looks in the flow of an offense. Why are you getting stuck on MDA when he's not the subject of this argument? By talking about MJ and Kobe as ISO players you show your ignorance. Of course they would get a lot of freedom to score on one on one looks and pretty much any look. Great players can do that but winning as consistently and repeating as champs is about more than just one on one ability.

My point is really that our players are being taught how to play the game at a higher level. It takes time to teach and perfect. You're talking like this is late in the season rather than 5 games into the process of developing these players. You seem to think you have a strong argument but I'm sorry but you're not standing on solid ground. You're not even arguing the same point you started off with. You're on some tangent about MJ and Kobe now which on its face is ridiculous when you have to use all time great individual talents to try and prove some point. Where is your point outside of mentioning the Elite of Elite players in league history?

You show your ignorance when you ignore reality, facts and results...

You are making absolutely ZERO sense. It seems like you're trying to argue with me about a very narrow aspect of what i've been talking about. I'm talking about Phil and Fish teaching these players how to play Winning Team BBall. They already have an offensive strategy, but it's going to take time for the players to learn and perfect it. You are getting all bent out of shape about my mentioning MDA as if that's the key point i'm trying to make. MDA is a flawed coach but he's also a very influential offensive mind in NBA. He's had an impact on how teams play to this very day. You can't even begin to compare his impact with that of Woody.

MDA actually was pretty close to getting to the finals with his teams and sure he didn't make it but very few teams do. That doesn't invalidate his offensive schemes and philosophies which are league wide now. MDA was all about TEAM ball. The same can be said about Pop and PJax. So we are being led by a man who is all about Ball and Player movement and thinking the game at a high level. We have to allow TIME for our players to be developed in this style of play. It's not going to be perfect at game 5 of the NBA season.

I have to laugh at your take on Phil's Bulls and Lakers teams and your oversimplification that its the ISO's that made it all work. LOL. ISO or One on One looks are built into the Triangle offense. So yeah there's going to be a lot of ISO but not to the detriment of Team Ball. There was a lot of great ball and player movement going on that you're ignoring to try and make some lame point.

It takes more than offense to win Championships..It takes defense as well..Something MDA never preached...Phil and Pop are brilliant coaches that preach on all facets of basketball not just offense...MDA wasn't a coach, he was a guy with a system, there is a difference..MDA didn't understand he need to make adjustment based on talent..He couldn't play cal during time outs..He had tunnel vision...Woodson understood you had to make adjustment to your roster...I compare everyone who coaches the Knicks...You really can't thoroughly evaluate a coach until he coaches your team...A player as well...U have to see them every night to truly evaluate efforts..It's killed you every night Woodson won a game...U tried to rip Woodson to shreds after MDA left..U couldn't come to terms with the success he had with the same team...That's what happens with hero worship...U can't see the Forrest from the trees...

was not the same team. I think that you forgot the player coach.