fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

Do I want him taking opportunistic 3's...sure. Do I want to force the issue...nope.

Is he more valuable closer to the basket...yup. Assists, offensive rebounds, higher % shots, picks, pick and rolls, etc....these are all available when he is nearer to the basket than further from it.

As his 3pt shot comes around, you give him more opportunities to take it, but why force things when he has so much value closer to the basket...and I'm not talking about 7 feet, with his back to the basket.

Recognize them, and then play to your present strengths while you address your weaknesses. This ain't brain surgery.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

+1 No one is suggesting that KP lives behind the 3pt line.

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

So you are unwilling to make adjustments based on actual performance??

A hypothetical situation...If Anthony Davis' numbers continue the way they are going after this VERY short sample of 4 games, during which he has taken more 3pt shots/game than in previous systems, even making 36% of them, does he make any changes. I have not seen him play this year, but was aware that he was working on his 3pt shot. Could be other reasons for a decline, including a small sample size or Pelican rotation issues, but does he make adjustments if his numbers don't improve?

If the shot charting for KP indicate there is an issue with his 3pt shooting do you still have him taking those shots?

Of course I would change. It will all depend on where we can maximize efficiency. But also, we need to see how much more efficient other players become when a stretch 4 can pull their defender out.

We are not privy to them but all these stats are available to the teams.

bigbasketballs wrote:I've lost track of the premise here.

Is the issue Porzingis is not good enough to shoot 3-pters, or is the issue attempting them at all detracts from his overall game?

I think his concentration should be on that mid range jumper and in. Hes got excellent touch and form. He seems to be setting up 2-3 feet fromt he 3 point line and most of his 3's have been ugly. I don't mind if he gets a great look off a roll where everything is planted--but he's MUCH better off staying in that Tim Duncan area. Tim Duncans game is the ultimate role model for a big guy like Porzingis who has nice touch--is a passer can rebound. Steady 20-10-3-2--IMHO he can get there. Tim has won 5 championships and hes barley taken a 3. Hes the guy who allows everyone else the great looks.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

Why have a guy who is 7'3 around the paint to crash the offensive boards?

Time for the eye test. KP is getting to the foul line. KP is dunking. KP is causing problems on the offensive boards. KP is shooting .200 from 3 point range. Should he just shoot his way out of it?

You tell me... lets get some credibility going here. You have seen KP in the NBA for 5 games. How many 3's should he taking? Should the coach be calling plays for him?

Go play coach and tell me. Taking your tallest and longest player away from the paint where those rare attributes have the biggest impact is poor baskeball.

Tell you one thing... as a defense I LOVE seeing Horford shoot from 3. Yes.. please take 3 of those a game instead of attacking the rim where you force defenses to collapse, pressure the defense by drawing contact, give your offensive rebounders a chance to follow you to the basket. Every 3 Horford takes is one that Korver isnt.
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot KP, Rolo or KOQ dont have to defend him on
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where the Hawk's best big is not in a position to get an offensive rebound
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where anyone can defend him.

See how this works?

May the silliness continue...

You like #s?
KP is shooting 50% from point blank
KP is shooting 46% from 3-10 feet
KP is shooting 43% from 10-16
KP is shooting 50% from 16-3 (long 2s)
KP is shooting 20% from 3

So all I hear you saying you want our longest tallest player shooting more from where he is 20% and cant impact the game in paint, and calling anyone stupid or silly who fails to see that logic.

Do I have this wrong?

KP could end up being the most versatile player for his size who ever played the game. Porzingis is a gym rat, he works on everything. As long as that's how he approaches his game, I have no problem with him doing the things that most 7'3 players normally dont do.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

please tell me when you shoot from 25 feet away you are in the same position on the floor as when you shoot 12-15 feet away.

Why have a guy who is 7'3 around the paint to crash the offensive boards?

Time for the eye test. KP is getting to the foul line. KP is dunking. KP is causing problems on the offensive boards. KP is shooting .200 from 3 point range. Should he just shoot his way out of it?

You tell me... lets get some credibility going here. You have seen KP in the NBA for 5 games. How many 3's should he taking? Should the coach be calling plays for him?

Go play coach and tell me. Taking your tallest and longest player away from the paint where those rare attributes have the biggest impact is poor baskeball.

Tell you one thing... as a defense I LOVE seeing Horford shoot from 3. Yes.. please take 3 of those a game instead of attacking the rim where you force defenses to collapse, pressure the defense by drawing contact, give your offensive rebounders a chance to follow you to the basket. Every 3 Horford takes is one that Korver isnt.
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot KP, Rolo or KOQ dont have to defend him on
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where the Hawk's best big is not in a position to get an offensive rebound
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where anyone can defend him.

See how this works?

May the silliness continue...

You like #s?
KP is shooting 50% from point blank
KP is shooting 46% from 3-10 feet
KP is shooting 43% from 10-16
KP is shooting 50% from 16-3 (long 2s)
KP is shooting 20% from 3

So all I hear you saying you want our longest tallest player shooting more from where he is 20% and cant impact the game in paint, and calling anyone stupid or silly who fails to see that logic.

Do I have this wrong?

good post. So basically, we have judged him after 5 games and determined that he should take most of his shots right inside the arc where he has proven to be most effective.

Got it! Well done.

Are you smarter than the pros fishmike? Briggs would answer yes but you are too smart to answer yes (i would think).

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

please tell me when you shoot from 25 feet away you are in the same position on the floor as when you shoot 12-15 feet away.

Why have a guy who is 7'3 around the paint to crash the offensive boards?

Time for the eye test. KP is getting to the foul line. KP is dunking. KP is causing problems on the offensive boards. KP is shooting .200 from 3 point range. Should he just shoot his way out of it?

You tell me... lets get some credibility going here. You have seen KP in the NBA for 5 games. How many 3's should he taking? Should the coach be calling plays for him?

Go play coach and tell me. Taking your tallest and longest player away from the paint where those rare attributes have the biggest impact is poor baskeball.

Tell you one thing... as a defense I LOVE seeing Horford shoot from 3. Yes.. please take 3 of those a game instead of attacking the rim where you force defenses to collapse, pressure the defense by drawing contact, give your offensive rebounders a chance to follow you to the basket. Every 3 Horford takes is one that Korver isnt.
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot KP, Rolo or KOQ dont have to defend him on
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where the Hawk's best big is not in a position to get an offensive rebound
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where anyone can defend him.

See how this works?

May the silliness continue...

You like #s?
KP is shooting 50% from point blank
KP is shooting 46% from 3-10 feet
KP is shooting 43% from 10-16
KP is shooting 50% from 16-3 (long 2s)
KP is shooting 20% from 3

So all I hear you saying you want our longest tallest player shooting more from where he is 20% and cant impact the game in paint, and calling anyone stupid or silly who fails to see that logic.

Do I have this wrong?

good post. So basically, we have judged him after 5 games and determined that he should take most of his shots right inside the arc where he has proven to be most effective.

Got it! Well done.

Are you smarter than the pros fishmike? Briggs would answer yes but you are too smart to answer yes (i would think).

You have not backed up your arguements at all except to revert to taking jabs.

I have said that I like him taking that open spot up 3, even though he's only hitting .200
I have stated my reasons why I wouldnt want him taking 3's as set plays.
You used Al Horford as an example as of the "new NBA" that Briggs (and I guess myself) cant grasp. Its by far his lowest % shot and removes his size from the equation. Your right... Im dumb and just dont get it. Bad eyes maybe?

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only 3 I would like to see him shoot is in transition. Doesnt even have to be fast break. I am just talking about when the offense is coming down the floor. Often the defense is setting up and whoever has KP will position at the top of the paint as most defenders do when they guard a big. Simply have KP stop at the top of the arc. If his guy isnt coming out he should take that straight away 3 every time. Spread that defense.

I do not want him taking set shots from 3. That is NOT a better shot than from 12-15 feet where KP seems automatic.

Like the other day when Horford took those 3s againt the Knicks. Where they set shots? No... just a case of him standing on the 3 point line as the offense and defense were getting set up. They passed him the ball, nobody guarded him, he took the shot. Like that.

If you want to call 3's for KP then you have a 7'3 guy standing 25+ feet from the hoop. That is pure basketball retardation. Like those putback dunks? Thats not happening when he's 25 feet away. He should be around the paint.

Nothing wrong with using him to spread the floor, but his primary role should always have him in the paint area or close to it.

credibility killer ... sorry

please tell me what percentage (automatic) that you expect him to hit from 12-15.

please tell me that if he can shoot 35 percent from 3 that you don't think that he should take them of picks and slips if he is open and if his slow defender won't come out.

please tell me if you think that any good GM or coach agrees with this silliness. Of course not unless they are old and stupid.

Even old school phil does not see this your way.

Take the highest percentage shot based on matchups and shot charting. Why is this so complicated?

please tell me when you shoot from 25 feet away you are in the same position on the floor as when you shoot 12-15 feet away.

Why have a guy who is 7'3 around the paint to crash the offensive boards?

Time for the eye test. KP is getting to the foul line. KP is dunking. KP is causing problems on the offensive boards. KP is shooting .200 from 3 point range. Should he just shoot his way out of it?

You tell me... lets get some credibility going here. You have seen KP in the NBA for 5 games. How many 3's should he taking? Should the coach be calling plays for him?

Go play coach and tell me. Taking your tallest and longest player away from the paint where those rare attributes have the biggest impact is poor baskeball.

Tell you one thing... as a defense I LOVE seeing Horford shoot from 3. Yes.. please take 3 of those a game instead of attacking the rim where you force defenses to collapse, pressure the defense by drawing contact, give your offensive rebounders a chance to follow you to the basket. Every 3 Horford takes is one that Korver isnt.
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot KP, Rolo or KOQ dont have to defend him on
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where the Hawk's best big is not in a position to get an offensive rebound
Every 3 Horford takes is a shot where anyone can defend him.

See how this works?

May the silliness continue...

You like #s?
KP is shooting 50% from point blank
KP is shooting 46% from 3-10 feet
KP is shooting 43% from 10-16
KP is shooting 50% from 16-3 (long 2s)
KP is shooting 20% from 3

So all I hear you saying you want our longest tallest player shooting more from where he is 20% and cant impact the game in paint, and calling anyone stupid or silly who fails to see that logic.

Do I have this wrong?

good post. So basically, we have judged him after 5 games and determined that he should take most of his shots right inside the arc where he has proven to be most effective.

Got it! Well done.

Are you smarter than the pros fishmike? Briggs would answer yes but you are too smart to answer yes (i would think).

It was a good post.. I appreciate you recognizing that. So when Melo is cold you want him to stop shooting. But KP is knocking em down at a rate of .200 and you say keep jacking? Please answer my questions... how many 3's a game do you want KP taking? What % seems reasonable?

You have not backed up your arguements at all except to revert to taking jabs.

I have said that I like him taking that open spot up 3, even though he's only hitting .200
I have stated my reasons why I wouldnt want him taking 3's as set plays.
You used Al Horford as an example as of the "new NBA" that Briggs (and I guess myself) cant grasp. Its by far his lowest % shot and removes his size from the equation. Your right... Im dumb and just dont get it. Bad eyes maybe?

Ok ... lets backup here ... no need for either of us to jab

I don't have a number of 3's that I want KP to take, I think that is exactly the thinking that I am trying to avoid. I want him to take as many open 3's as he can get provided that he can't dominate his defender from 0-3 feet. Its all based on matchups.

Please look at stats for shooting areas, I think that it will surprise you. And, this is the reason that the game is changing. You and Briggs don't agree with what Atlanta is doing with Horford? DO YOU SEE HOW THAT SOUNDS? Atlanta knows good and well what they are doing and guess what, its working!

And you keep missing the value of pulling out the clogging defender. Do you think that Cleveland wanted KP sitting in the lane and waiting for the penetrators? Of course not! They wanted to pull him out to chase love behind the arc. Even if Love is not shooting that well, the value of him opening up the floor is something that you are missing. The NBA is no longer missing this huge advantage.

Dirk shot 20% from 3 his first season and we want to judge our silky smooth rookie after 5 games?

fishmike wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

fishmike wrote:But KP is knocking em down at a rate of .200 and you say keep jacking? Please answer my questions...

I will.

His "rate" after 5 NBA games played and 15 attempts is utterly irrelevant to ANY evaluation as to how many he should be talking, and that remains true whether is "rate" was .200, .400 or .600.

His first 15 shots means NOTHING under any context.

thats not my question... my question is how many do you want him taking? 5 games means nothing? I have said take the open spot up 3. If that is a stupid answer please clarify. How many 3's are a reasonable %? How many a game do you want him to take. How many games of shooting it poorly before you say lets get him doing what he is going well for him, and steer away from what is not working?

How many should Melo take? How many should have dirk taken before he removed that from his repertoire?

You think that he should only that spot up open threes? I agree! And that is for everyone else as well. No stupid heat check macho low percentage / inefficient shots (from anywhere).