fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:Our problem in the last few years has been getting down big in the 1st period - 10 or 20 points - then fighting back.

I see this trend happening again.

I agree. I think our starters will get outplayed and we won't get back in the game til Galloway and Grant come in with Kyle O'Quinn and Derrick Williams.

Our starting lineup just seems like it's the starting lineup for a mediocre 90s era team. The parts are okay, but they just seem like they'll play slow and not defend very well.

I think Grant will naturally supplant Calderon by the end of the season.

I don't think Fisher will bench Calderon very quickly - I think Calderon will start, but I just think the team stands more of a chance with both Galloway and Grant on the floor and playing more minutes than Calderon.

simple fact is our guard rotation is not deep, and we NEED Calderon to play well. He doesnt have to be anything he isnt, but benching him before the season starts is knee jerk and wont help us. If we are getting outscored because of Jose to start every game Fisher will need to make a change.

Part of the big difference between the starters and bench is the SL looks very robotic running the triangle, where as the bench guys run it less, push in transition more and look better and more free flowing.

Im not sure what the solution is. Probably start Sasha and we will see a ton of Grant and Galloway.

I mean if my bench is out scoring every team they play, why would i changed that 2) Calderone and sasha, had been pushing the pace, it's lopez, melo, and KP, that are not.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:Our problem in the last few years has been getting down big in the 1st period - 10 or 20 points - then fighting back.

I see this trend happening again.

I agree. I think our starters will get outplayed and we won't get back in the game til Galloway and Grant come in with Kyle O'Quinn and Derrick Williams.

Our starting lineup just seems like it's the starting lineup for a mediocre 90s era team. The parts are okay, but they just seem like they'll play slow and not defend very well.

I think Grant will naturally supplant Calderon by the end of the season.

I don't think Fisher will bench Calderon very quickly - I think Calderon will start, but I just think the team stands more of a chance with both Galloway and Grant on the floor and playing more minutes than Calderon.

simple fact is our guard rotation is not deep, and we NEED Calderon to play well. He doesnt have to be anything he isnt, but benching him before the season starts is knee jerk and wont help us. If we are getting outscored because of Jose to start every game Fisher will need to make a change.

Part of the big difference between the starters and bench is the SL looks very robotic running the triangle, where as the bench guys run it less, push in transition more and look better and more free flowing.

Im not sure what the solution is. Probably start Sasha and we will see a ton of Grant and Galloway.

the spacing has been poor and the use of the triangle has been about parallel with when kp is on the floor. when fisher says the season is about the process of becoming a good team, there is no point in abandoning a plan just because it is in it's developmental stages. they will have to get better at it, more acquainted with it and one another. most of all melo will have to buy in and try to work at it, something he did not do against the celtics. calderon's greatest value is as a shooter at this point.

instead of fumbling with rotations i'd prefer to see them work at something until it is no longer robotic and methodical and more fluid and natural.

arkrud wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:Our problem in the last few years has been getting down big in the 1st period - 10 or 20 points - then fighting back.

I see this trend happening again.

I agree. I think our starters will get outplayed and we won't get back in the game til Galloway and Grant come in with Kyle O'Quinn and Derrick Williams.

Our starting lineup just seems like it's the starting lineup for a mediocre 90s era team. The parts are okay, but they just seem like they'll play slow and not defend very well.

I think Grant will naturally supplant Calderon by the end of the season.

I don't think Fisher will bench Calderon very quickly - I think Calderon will start, but I just think the team stands more of a chance with both Galloway and Grant on the floor and playing more minutes than Calderon.

simple fact is our guard rotation is not deep, and we NEED Calderon to play well. He doesnt have to be anything he isnt, but benching him before the season starts is knee jerk and wont help us. If we are getting outscored because of Jose to start every game Fisher will need to make a change.

Part of the big difference between the starters and bench is the SL looks very robotic running the triangle, where as the bench guys run it less, push in transition more and look better and more free flowing.

Im not sure what the solution is. Probably start Sasha and we will see a ton of Grant and Galloway.

the spacing has been poor and the use of the triangle has been about parallel with when kp is on the floor. when fisher says the season is about the process of becoming a good team, there is no point in abandoning a plan just because it is in it's developmental stages. they will have to get better at it, more acquainted with it and one another. most of all melo will have to buy in and try to work at it, something he did not do against the celtics. calderon's greatest value is as a shooter at this point.

instead of fumbling with rotations i'd prefer to see them work at something until it is no longer robotic and methodical and more fluid and natural.

Exactly. We should get this win now mentality out of our system.
It is not happening any time soon.
team has more important things on the agenda that pleasing casual fan base with some out of the blue wins.

However this is a pretty young roster, and considering they want to start KP its pretty clear they are trying to build this kid's confidence. After that win now is exactly what we should be doing. We are not trading KP for David West so we can better win now. We are talking about these guys playing the best they can play.

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:Our problem in the last few years has been getting down big in the 1st period - 10 or 20 points - then fighting back.

I see this trend happening again.

I agree. I think our starters will get outplayed and we won't get back in the game til Galloway and Grant come in with Kyle O'Quinn and Derrick Williams.

Our starting lineup just seems like it's the starting lineup for a mediocre 90s era team. The parts are okay, but they just seem like they'll play slow and not defend very well.

I think Grant will naturally supplant Calderon by the end of the season.

I don't think Fisher will bench Calderon very quickly - I think Calderon will start, but I just think the team stands more of a chance with both Galloway and Grant on the floor and playing more minutes than Calderon.

simple fact is our guard rotation is not deep, and we NEED Calderon to play well. He doesnt have to be anything he isnt, but benching him before the season starts is knee jerk and wont help us. If we are getting outscored because of Jose to start every game Fisher will need to make a change.

Part of the big difference between the starters and bench is the SL looks very robotic running the triangle, where as the bench guys run it less, push in transition more and look better and more free flowing.

Im not sure what the solution is. Probably start Sasha and we will see a ton of Grant and Galloway.

the spacing has been poor and the use of the triangle has been about parallel with when kp is on the floor. when fisher says the season is about the process of becoming a good team, there is no point in abandoning a plan just because it is in it's developmental stages. they will have to get better at it, more acquainted with it and one another. most of all melo will have to buy in and try to work at it, something he did not do against the celtics. calderon's greatest value is as a shooter at this point.

instead of fumbling with rotations i'd prefer to see them work at something until it is no longer robotic and methodical and more fluid and natural.

Exactly. We should get this win now mentality out of our system.
It is not happening any time soon.
team has more important things on the agenda that pleasing casual fan base with some out of the blue wins.

the only time "win now" should be regarded as a negative is if you are sacrificing the future to accomplish that. Something the Knick fans have suffered over painfully in the past watching draft picks traded for veteran players who were not taking us to the next level.

However this is a pretty young roster, and considering they want to start KP its pretty clear they are trying to build this kid's confidence. After that win now is exactly what we should be doing. We are not trading KP for David West so we can better win now. We are talking about these guys playing the best they can play.

Is sacrificing young players development, establishment of team identity, keeping veterans healthy for the sake of winning games here and there not a negative? Probably even more so as trading promising players away.
We need to build sustainable team for yeas to come like top NBA team have done in the past.
If it will take 1 year of losing or 3 does not matter.

herkyJerky wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:Our problem in the last few years has been getting down big in the 1st period - 10 or 20 points - then fighting back.

I see this trend happening again.

I agree. I think our starters will get outplayed and we won't get back in the game til Galloway and Grant come in with Kyle O'Quinn and Derrick Williams.

Our starting lineup just seems like it's the starting lineup for a mediocre 90s era team. The parts are okay, but they just seem like they'll play slow and not defend very well.

I think Grant will naturally supplant Calderon by the end of the season.

I don't think Fisher will bench Calderon very quickly - I think Calderon will start, but I just think the team stands more of a chance with both Galloway and Grant on the floor and playing more minutes than Calderon.

simple fact is our guard rotation is not deep, and we NEED Calderon to play well. He doesnt have to be anything he isnt, but benching him before the season starts is knee jerk and wont help us. If we are getting outscored because of Jose to start every game Fisher will need to make a change.

Part of the big difference between the starters and bench is the SL looks very robotic running the triangle, where as the bench guys run it less, push in transition more and look better and more free flowing.

Im not sure what the solution is. Probably start Sasha and we will see a ton of Grant and Galloway.

the spacing has been poor and the use of the triangle has been about parallel with when kp is on the floor. when fisher says the season is about the process of becoming a good team, there is no point in abandoning a plan just because it is in it's developmental stages. they will have to get better at it, more acquainted with it and one another. most of all melo will have to buy in and try to work at it, something he did not do against the celtics. calderon's greatest value is as a shooter at this point.

instead of fumbling with rotations i'd prefer to see them work at something until it is no longer robotic and methodical and more fluid and natural.

Exactly. We should get this win now mentality out of our system.
It is not happening any time soon.
team has more important things on the agenda that pleasing casual fan base with some out of the blue wins.

the only time "win now" should be regarded as a negative is if you are sacrificing the future to accomplish that. Something the Knick fans have suffered over painfully in the past watching draft picks traded for veteran players who were not taking us to the next level.

However this is a pretty young roster, and considering they want to start KP its pretty clear they are trying to build this kid's confidence. After that win now is exactly what we should be doing. We are not trading KP for David West so we can better win now. We are talking about these guys playing the best they can play.

Is sacrificing young players development, establishment of team identity, keeping veterans healthy for the sake of winning games here and there not a negative? Probably even more so as trading promising players away.
We need to build sustainable team for yeas to come like top NBA team have done in the past.
If it will take 1 year of losing or 3 does not matter.

Nothing does more for that than winning as many games as you can. You can build and build all you want, but it won't mean anything if they don't know how to win.

Winning is result of team build the right way, the players with strong character and work ethics, great coaching and drafting not the other way around. Wins build confidence but loses build character.
Pro sport is not a lottery. Gambling will not get organization too far.
And we saw this clear as day with Knicks organization.
Time to stop gambling and start working.
Sorry it will be boring at times...

dk7th wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:Our problem in the last few years has been getting down big in the 1st period - 10 or 20 points - then fighting back.

I see this trend happening again.

I agree. I think our starters will get outplayed and we won't get back in the game til Galloway and Grant come in with Kyle O'Quinn and Derrick Williams.

Our starting lineup just seems like it's the starting lineup for a mediocre 90s era team. The parts are okay, but they just seem like they'll play slow and not defend very well.

I think Grant will naturally supplant Calderon by the end of the season.

I don't think Fisher will bench Calderon very quickly - I think Calderon will start, but I just think the team stands more of a chance with both Galloway and Grant on the floor and playing more minutes than Calderon.

simple fact is our guard rotation is not deep, and we NEED Calderon to play well. He doesnt have to be anything he isnt, but benching him before the season starts is knee jerk and wont help us. If we are getting outscored because of Jose to start every game Fisher will need to make a change.

Part of the big difference between the starters and bench is the SL looks very robotic running the triangle, where as the bench guys run it less, push in transition more and look better and more free flowing.

Im not sure what the solution is. Probably start Sasha and we will see a ton of Grant and Galloway.

the spacing has been poor and the use of the triangle has been about parallel with when kp is on the floor. when fisher says the season is about the process of becoming a good team, there is no point in abandoning a plan just because it is in it's developmental stages. they will have to get better at it, more acquainted with it and one another. most of all melo will have to buy in and try to work at it, something he did not do against the celtics. calderon's greatest value is as a shooter at this point.

instead of fumbling with rotations i'd prefer to see them work at something until it is no longer robotic and methodical and more fluid and natural.

Exactly. We should get this win now mentality out of our system.
It is not happening any time soon.
team has more important things on the agenda that pleasing casual fan base with some out of the blue wins.

the only time "win now" should be regarded as a negative is if you are sacrificing the future to accomplish that. Something the Knick fans have suffered over painfully in the past watching draft picks traded for veteran players who were not taking us to the next level.

However this is a pretty young roster, and considering they want to start KP its pretty clear they are trying to build this kid's confidence. After that win now is exactly what we should be doing. We are not trading KP for David West so we can better win now. We are talking about these guys playing the best they can play.

Is sacrificing young players development, establishment of team identity, keeping veterans healthy for the sake of winning games here and there not a negative? Probably even more so as trading promising players away.
We need to build sustainable team for yeas to come like top NBA team have done in the past.
If it will take 1 year of losing or 3 does not matter.

Nothing does more for that than winning as many games as you can. You can build and build all you want, but it won't mean anything if they don't know how to win.

it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in terms of the "process of becoming good... in order to build a foundation for success." i am quoting fisher here. seems like you and many others are not on board with this approach. that's a shame. the fanbase should be supporting the management and coaching staff.

Nowhere in my statement did I say that I'm not on board with that. I'm not sure where you got that from. But it doesn't matter. I'm not really arguing with anyone about this, I'm just trying to build a case for something. Let me be clear about what exactly it is I'm saying. Keeping Grant and Gallo running the 2nd unit is the Knicks' best chance at both winning games now AND developing these two young guys for our future. That is all I'm saying. There seem to be two general schools of thought in this thread. There are those who want to start the young guys at guard so the team can play faster faster faster and win more games against teams following the new-ish trend of fast paced games, and there are those who think that the way Fisher has set up the 2 squads can work. But clearly both schools of thought have success in mind, or at least I would hope so. Some want more success now, and some want more success in the future. I think the way Fisher has it worked out right now can do both. Either Calderon or White Mamba has a hell of a lot more experience with success than Grant and Gallo combined. Both Calderon and White Mamba look pretty healthy and capable of playing as hard and SMART and experienced as they can right now. This makes the odds better for winning more games now, therefore more success and confidence building for Grant and Gallo as they continue to gain experience and grow more comfortable with the NBA game. Let's see how this plays out over the first 5 - 10 games people, and hope that no one else gets injured.