Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

Not to butt in but there's quite a few players that arent true triangle fits. I personally think Phil wanted Fisher to instill the principles of the triangle, but adapt to his player. They seem to be doing that, alot of mid range shots, good assist rate and defense. Just not the native triangle we may have seen with Phil's Bulls.

you're not butting in... it's a forum. that said, tell me which players are not true triangle fits?

williams, early,....

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

It's seems like it's Fisher's call to make the changes he sees fit..No reason to run a rigid system for the sake of saying you have a system..They aren't running the triangle as much and it's showing better results...They are pushing the pace as opposed to a slower pace in the triangle which gives the defense a chance to set up...Having Fisher implement his style gives the players more confidence and trust in their coach...Clyde talked about it last night...You don't get bonus points for constantly running the triangle..

it's fisher's call, yes. it's also the pre-season and we have not seen one putative starting line-up yet, thanks to injuries. clyde said a lot of things last night. one of them was that he was not an advocate of all this resting players stuff. they need to get as much time playing together so he can make a well-informed decision. he can't do that with only one game left.

that said, the players he rested last night may well be four-fifths of the starting lineup:

melo, o'quinn, calderon, lopez. add afflalo. i'd rather see kp out there instead of o'quinn.

we shall see.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

Not to butt in but there's quite a few players that arent true triangle fits. I personally think Phil wanted Fisher to instill the principles of the triangle, but adapt to his player. They seem to be doing that, alot of mid range shots, good assist rate and defense. Just not the native triangle we may have seen with Phil's Bulls.

you're not butting in... it's a forum. that said, tell me which players are not true triangle fits?

williams, early,....

Melo? Calderon as a pg.

calderon is a high-percentage shooter for the first 15 seconds of a possession and a very good pick and roll player for the last 9 seconds of a possession. in other words he has the ability to adapt.

melo, so we are told, is an excellent passer and enjoys shooting midrange shots. so it's a matter of changing his approach, which he should be *willing* to do for the sake of the team.

it's another matter to be incapable, which is the crux of the question.

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

if you run any system rigidly like phil did in chicago and LA, it will fail in today's game. the LA championships were a long time ago. flexibility is the name of the game. knicks attempted more mid-range 2 pointers than pretty much any other team in the league last year trying to force the triangle. the name of the game today is paint and 3 point line. and people who can switch and defend or play multiple positions on offense.

PHIL is WRONG IF he thinks that a strict or most of the time triangle system will work with this team. What you are concerned about changing results in fewer wins for this team. maximize the wins this year, give a terrible #1 pick away instead of a really good one, and have a legit shot at Durant next summer.

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

Not to butt in but there's quite a few players that arent true triangle fits. I personally think Phil wanted Fisher to instill the principles of the triangle, but adapt to his player. They seem to be doing that, alot of mid range shots, good assist rate and defense. Just not the native triangle we may have seen with Phil's Bulls.

you're not butting in... it's a forum. that said, tell me which players are not true triangle fits?

williams, early,....

Honestly the majority of the players. Most thrive in transition which is for the most part anti-triangle, and the team really isnt working the low block at all outside of second chance points and rim attacks.

Think about it...melo for instance is averaging 1 free throw ATTEMPT per game, because the majority of his shots are long 2's, and it's not from a two-man game on the weakside either.

IDK what you guys are watching, but we run the triangle all the time, it's just more efficient and a little more crisp, were not walking the ball up and taking our time to set it up, and giving the defense time to set up as well. Obviously we were running more. The shot that melo are taking, are good open mid-range shots. It's ok to shoot one FT if your shooting close to 60% from the field, it's only bad when your shooting 39% and taking 1 ft.

so lets see what happens when Melo is not shooting 60 percent.

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

Not to butt in but there's quite a few players that arent true triangle fits. I personally think Phil wanted Fisher to instill the principles of the triangle, but adapt to his player. They seem to be doing that, alot of mid range shots, good assist rate and defense. Just not the native triangle we may have seen with Phil's Bulls.

you're not butting in... it's a forum. that said, tell me which players are not true triangle fits?

williams, early,....

Honestly the majority of the players. Most thrive in transition which is for the most part anti-triangle, and the team really isnt working the low block at all outside of second chance points and rim attacks.

Think about it...melo for instance is averaging 1 free throw ATTEMPT per game, because the majority of his shots are long 2's, and it's not from a two-man game on the weakside either.

IDK what you guys are watching, but we run the triangle all the time, it's just more efficient and a little more crisp, were not walking the ball up and taking our time to set it up, and giving the defense time to set up as well. Obviously we were running more. The shot that melo are taking, are good open mid-range shots. It's ok to shoot one FT if your shooting close to 60% from the field, it's only bad when your shooting 39% and taking 1 ft.

i don't see much triangle out there, i have to tell you. maybe 15% of the plays resemble the triangle. either that or it is being very poorly run with terrible spacing.

Oh i see it a lot, I just see them react more, and not fall into the idea of having to set it, run it, and executed to perfection, thus becoming super predictable by the 2nd quarter.

Berman said it best over the summer, he said the knicks were running a supped up version of the triangle. We're just playing a hell of lot quicker than last yr.

You know i kill fisher(for his in experience wet-behind-the-ears coaching style)but he's learning, and he's got players who took time this summer to at least study the fundamentals of the triangle. They haven't perfected it, but more importantly, they're not relying on it to dictate the flow of the game.

holfresh wrote:They are running less triangle..

hell just froze over: we see the same thing.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think this is a very decent team. I don't think we need 20 games to get used to new players etc I think it's on Fischer to create expect and execute on a higher expectation level. We have what I think might be a big 3 with Carmelo at sf paying at starting pf and yes d will as sixth man on top of it we have extraordinary and high quality depth. I think we may have got a god send with Quinn and Fischer has to put the right guys in place

what concerns me is how little of the triangle we have seen run in the four games we have seen. last night's game i saw two, perhaps three half-assed attempts at a triangle but the rest of the time i saw pick and roll, isolation, and some rather desperate last-second passes that found open men. that said, i saw some very nice passing from the post but in a non-triangle setting.

the celtics played very sloppily and turned the ball over a ton.

players who seem to have some nice chemistry-- and the triangle is about duos and trios meshing-- are

calderon/lopez
galloway/grant/williams
o'quinn with anyone-- great glue guy
kristaps/melo in spots... would like to see them more

to start the season i'd like to see:

STARTERS: calderon [afflalo] melo krispo lopez

BENCH: galloway grant williams o'quinn seraphin

well this is not a triangle personnel team. so why force it. i mean derrick williams has been the second best player on offense this preseason because he loves to play the triangle so much??

let them play and get the Ws...that's all that matters.

i have no issues with the knicks not running the triangle with non triangle players like williams. williams has been great as a freelancing open court player these four games-- well, maybe not last night with inferior teammates. (early is in a similar situation.) but i will maintain that williams has no business in the starting lineup since that takes away his strengths while also compromising the triangle offense if you try inserting him into a starter's role. jackson surely brought him here to be a sixth man, respecting his vinnie johnson-like instant offense.

there is a possibility that fisher will figure out that he wants to run the triangle with starters who do use the triangle and then pick and roll... and then bring in bench players who give opponents a completely different look: smaller, quicker, open floor, running.

i like lopez/calderon as one duo in the triangle. good pick and roll/pop and calderon is a good corner 3 shooter.
i like kp and melo as another duo in the triangle. they too can run a successful pick and roll/pop. melo is much more effective shooting the ball behind a pick than in jab step/jab step mode.
as to trios in the triangle, i am not as sure but it makes sense (by default) that afflalo will "swing" from one duo to the other. afflalo looks to be a pretty good midrange shooter, as do melo and kp.

i am not someone who is an advocate of "a win is a win," which seems to be your point of view. it isn't *that* you win but *how* you win that matters in the end. in order to build something lasting-- which is phil jackson's stated goal-- he wants to institute a system and culture that he believes will yield consistent, long-term results. does this mean tweaking stuff here and there? absolutely. at the same time it does not mean upending a system to accommodate one player's style of play.

Not to butt in but there's quite a few players that arent true triangle fits. I personally think Phil wanted Fisher to instill the principles of the triangle, but adapt to his player. They seem to be doing that, alot of mid range shots, good assist rate and defense. Just not the native triangle we may have seen with Phil's Bulls.

you're not butting in... it's a forum. that said, tell me which players are not true triangle fits?

williams, early,....

Honestly the majority of the players. Most thrive in transition which is for the most part anti-triangle, and the team really isnt working the low block at all outside of second chance points and rim attacks.

Think about it...melo for instance is averaging 1 free throw ATTEMPT per game, because the majority of his shots are long 2's, and it's not from a two-man game on the weakside either.

IDK what you guys are watching, but we run the triangle all the time, it's just more efficient and a little more crisp, were not walking the ball up and taking our time to set it up, and giving the defense time to set up as well. Obviously we were running more. The shot that melo are taking, are good open mid-range shots. It's ok to shoot one FT if your shooting close to 60% from the field, it's only bad when your shooting 39% and taking 1 ft.

i don't see much triangle out there, i have to tell you. maybe 15% of the plays resemble the triangle. either that or it is being very poorly run with terrible spacing.

Oh i see it a lot, I just see them react more, and not fall into the idea of having to set it, run it, and executed to perfection, thus becoming super predictable by the 2nd quarter.

Berman said it best over the summer, he said the knicks were running a supped up version of the triangle. We're just playing a hell of lot quicker than last yr.

You know i kill fisher(for his in experience wet-behind-the-ears coaching style)but he's learning, and he's got players who took time this summer to at least study the fundamentals of the triangle. They haven't perfected it, but more importantly, they're not relying on it to dictate the flow of the game.

I agree, the knicks are running the triangle more. Its just a part of there half court arsenal. The goal last year wass to run and try to get easy point in transition. This year they've achieved that plus they are running PnR through the triangle and straight up PnR. This is a modern version of the triangle that relies on the lead guards knowing when to either set up a PnR or wait to run a more triangle play. Its interesting because it is an adaption from last yar. They still do the triangle (starters and Bench) but thats not al the do. I expect as the season wears down the focus will becomes more triangle since come the playoffs when the defense racks up (and points are harder to get from simple PnR and Transition) is when having a knowledge of the triangle will be the most important.

So right now I would say its 40% transition, 30% PnR, and 30% triangle