knickscity wrote:Everything that is illegal still has a way to be obtained. If a person wants it, they will get it. Lessening guns only prevents law abiders from protecting themselves and the country and their rights to bear (which means carry), not the killers. There are illegal drugs and myriads of laws to sanction violators....how is that working? The only one's afraid to obtain and use are law abiding citizens. Yet anyone can get illegal drugs.

Guns would be do different. Restricting guns wont limit potential criminals. The laws are already there. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. If you want to kill you will find a way.

There are countless examples of mass killing not using guns most notably 9/11. Boxcutters, American educations and Airplanes were the tools used to kill.

Now for the lamers, the militia is the entire population of people, that was the original intent, and here are some examples.....

Richard Henry Lee: “To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” (LIGHT HORSE HARRY) LEE, writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

I rest my case.

Knickscity, those quotes are from 1788. That is 228 years ago. The world has changed a lot since then. What was appropriate in 1788 may not be appropriate and work now.

knickscity wrote:Everything that is illegal still has a way to be obtained. If a person wants it, they will get it. Lessening guns only prevents law abiders from protecting themselves and the country and their rights to bear (which means carry), not the killers. There are illegal drugs and myriads of laws to sanction violators....how is that working? The only one's afraid to obtain and use are law abiding citizens. Yet anyone can get illegal drugs.

Guns would be do different. Restricting guns wont limit potential criminals. The laws are already there. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. If you want to kill you will find a way.

There are so many nuances to "gun control" that I don't think really address any of what you are stating. Your statement on illegal drugs is a good example for me; just because people can possibly get illegal drugs doesn't mean we should make it easy or easier to get them, and it certainly does not make the cause for NOT making it harder to get them.

Facts:

1. There's roughly one gun for every person in America
2. Gun crime is more prevalent in the US than in other rich countries
3. Gun homicides (like all homicides) are declining
4. Places with more guns have more homicides
5. There are more gun suicides than gun homicides in America
6. Suicide is more common in places with more guns
7. Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death
8. Guns contribute to domestic violence
9. Mass shootings aren't getting more common — and are a tiny share of all shootings
10. A tiny fraction of gun violence is committed by the mentally ill

Aug 1, 2016, a Texas law goes into effect making it permissible to carry a concealed weapon on a college campus. Private universities can opt out, public universities have to publicly designate which areas you cannot carry a weapon. This should end well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-guns-campuses-and-madness.html

That’s 50 years to the day since one of the first and most infamous mass shootings at an American school, the beginning of a bloody tape loop. It happened right here, at the University of Texas at Austin, where an engineering student climbed to the top of the iconic tower in the center of campus and, for an agonizing hour and a half, sprayed the surrounding area with bullets, killing 14 people and injuring more than 30.

If they improve education and jobs that would lower innercity crime and gang gun violence to a great degree. If on top of that there was an increase in funding for mental health that could make a huge decrease in Mass shootings as well. This can be done.

CrushAlot wrote:In regards to gun control and the second amendment, it is viewed very differently in upstate ny. I grew up knowing one person that had a gun, my uncle who hunted but never shot anything. I went to college upstate and moved there after college to live with some buddies from school. I lived in the city of Rochester for 13 years but we moved before my two boys started school. At least half of the guys I know in my town are hunters and that number is a lot higher in the community where I work. I have a 30 mile commute and pass at least 20 repeal the safe act signs. I think gun control is needed and necessary. But I don't talk about it at social events in my town. The box cutters killed more people in 9/11 is a frequent topic if gun control is brought up. Many of my boys friends have grown up hunting with their dads. Most of the guys I know are amazing dads but they do not want to give up their guns no matter how many tragedies occur. I don't get it but it gives perspective as to why this issue is as big as pro choice versus pro life.

Hunting rifles are NOT the sort used in rampage killings. AR's and handguns are the weapons of choice, neither of which would ever be used by a hunter.

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:Everything that is illegal still has a way to be obtained. If a person wants it, they will get it. Lessening guns only prevents law abiders from protecting themselves and the country and their rights to bear (which means carry), not the killers. There are illegal drugs and myriads of laws to sanction violators....how is that working? The only one's afraid to obtain and use are law abiding citizens. Yet anyone can get illegal drugs.

Guns would be do different. Restricting guns wont limit potential criminals. The laws are already there. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. If you want to kill you will find a way.

There are countless examples of mass killing not using guns most notably 9/11. Boxcutters, American educations and Airplanes were the tools used to kill.

Now for the lamers, the militia is the entire population of people, that was the original intent, and here are some examples.....

Richard Henry Lee: “To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” (LIGHT HORSE HARRY) LEE, writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

I rest my case.

Come on, are u kidding??...Gun control laws would close a lot of gun manufacturers, so the market would not be as flooded with guns as it currently is...There are guys in the South who can legally sell guns out the trunk of their cars at gun shows...How does that make sense??...No other first world country that have strict gun laws have these mass shootings..Care to explain that phenomena? And are you not willing to try anything to stop these senseless shootings??..I have kids, I prep them on what to do should some idiot start shooting in their schools...How is that a good way to live??..Imagine some one's kid just started school and got killed by an insane guy who had 6 guns on him and 7 at home...His parents claim they had no clue...Then you say it's not the guns, it the people...Get real...

I guess you believe the majority of folks who drink lean are people with prescriptions to cough syrup. Oh well ban the cough syrup.

It is the people who are irresponsible. Sit a gun on a desk. Now beg it to fire itself, better yet, beg it to fire itself at a room full of people unloading each round one by one with the safety on. Sounds silly, but thats the point. It wont happen.

They already have gun control laws. Ramp them up to stricter rules might help. perhaps some of the southern states adopting NY's laws might help. But there is zero way to prevent a person who wants to kill from killing. 9/11 should have taught you something. People kill people and they dont need a gun to do it. I have children, and I have no issue with school officials being armed, after all schools are entrusted with not only teaching the children but they are responsible for their welfare. The laws prevents guns from entering schools is being ignored now, what makes you think a killer is gonna give up the gun he currently has?

Making stricter laws will only neuter the folks who follow the laws, individuals with criminal records cant legally get a gun now, but they still got them, and they will continue to get them.

Wanna ban cars as well since folks drive drunk and kill people every day? Some folks just arent concerned with consequences, laws and breaking such.

Thats the problem. Fix that problem first.

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:Everything that is illegal still has a way to be obtained. If a person wants it, they will get it. Lessening guns only prevents law abiders from protecting themselves and the country and their rights to bear (which means carry), not the killers. There are illegal drugs and myriads of laws to sanction violators....how is that working? The only one's afraid to obtain and use are law abiding citizens. Yet anyone can get illegal drugs.

Guns would be do different. Restricting guns wont limit potential criminals. The laws are already there. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. If you want to kill you will find a way.

There are countless examples of mass killing not using guns most notably 9/11. Boxcutters, American educations and Airplanes were the tools used to kill.

Now for the lamers, the militia is the entire population of people, that was the original intent, and here are some examples.....

Richard Henry Lee: “To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” (LIGHT HORSE HARRY) LEE, writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

I rest my case.

Come on, are u kidding??...Gun control laws would close a lot of gun manufacturers, so the market would not be as flooded with guns as it currently is...There are guys in the South who can legally sell guns out the trunk of their cars at gun shows...How does that make sense??...No other first world country that have strict gun laws have these mass shootings..Care to explain that phenomena? And are you not willing to try anything to stop these senseless shootings??..I have kids, I prep them on what to do should some idiot start shooting in their schools...How is that a good way to live??..Imagine some one's kid just started school and got killed by an insane guy who had 6 guns on him and 7 at home...His parents claim they had no clue...Then you say it's not the guns, it the people...Get real...

You cant be serious. Gun control wont close gun manufacturers. Everyone except law abiding citizens will then have guns, just like law abiding citizens are primarily the only ones not purchasing, using, selling, distributing and manufacturing illegal drugs.

I guess you believe the majority of folks who drink lean are people with prescriptions to cough syrup. Oh well ban the cough syrup.

It is the people who are irresponsible. Sit a gun on a desk. Now beg it to fire itself, better yet, beg it to fire itself at a room full of people unloading each round one by one with the safety on. Sounds silly, but thats the point. It wont happen.

They already have gun control laws. Ramp them up to stricter rules might help. perhaps some of the southern states adopting NY's laws might help. But there is zero way to prevent a person who wants to kill from killing. 9/11 should have taught you something. People kill people and they dont need a gun to do it. I have children, and I have no issue with school officials being armed, after all schools are entrusted with not only teaching the children but they are responsible for their welfare. The laws prevents guns from entering schools is being ignored now, what makes you think a killer is gonna give up the gun he currently has?

Making stricter laws will only neuter the folks who follow the laws, individuals with criminal records cant legally get a gun now, but they still got them, and they will continue to get them.

Wanna ban cars as well since folks drive drunk and kill people every day? Some folks just arent concerned with consequences, laws and breaking such.

Thats the problem. Fix that problem first.

The idea is not to make it easy for those who wants to kill..9/11 happened 14 years ago and killed 3,000 people..Guns killed 360,000 people since then..

Everything else that is illegal is readily available, only people that obey laws follow them. people who commit crimes will never.

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:Everything that is illegal still has a way to be obtained. If a person wants it, they will get it. Lessening guns only prevents law abiders from protecting themselves and the country and their rights to bear (which means carry), not the killers. There are illegal drugs and myriads of laws to sanction violators....how is that working? The only one's afraid to obtain and use are law abiding citizens. Yet anyone can get illegal drugs.

Guns would be do different. Restricting guns wont limit potential criminals. The laws are already there. Guns do not kill people, people kill people. If you want to kill you will find a way.

There are countless examples of mass killing not using guns most notably 9/11. Boxcutters, American educations and Airplanes were the tools used to kill.

Now for the lamers, the militia is the entire population of people, that was the original intent, and here are some examples.....

Richard Henry Lee: “To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them…” (LIGHT HORSE HARRY) LEE, writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

I rest my case.

Come on, are u kidding??...Gun control laws would close a lot of gun manufacturers, so the market would not be as flooded with guns as it currently is...There are guys in the South who can legally sell guns out the trunk of their cars at gun shows...How does that make sense??...No other first world country that have strict gun laws have these mass shootings..Care to explain that phenomena? And are you not willing to try anything to stop these senseless shootings??..I have kids, I prep them on what to do should some idiot start shooting in their schools...How is that a good way to live??..Imagine some one's kid just started school and got killed by an insane guy who had 6 guns on him and 7 at home...His parents claim they had no clue...Then you say it's not the guns, it the people...Get real...

You cant be serious. Gun control wont close gun manufacturers. Everyone except law abiding citizens will then have guns, just like law abiding citizens are primarily the only ones not purchasing, using, selling, distributing and manufacturing illegal drugs.

I guess you believe the majority of folks who drink lean are people with prescriptions to cough syrup. Oh well ban the cough syrup.

It is the people who are irresponsible. Sit a gun on a desk. Now beg it to fire itself, better yet, beg it to fire itself at a room full of people unloading each round one by one with the safety on. Sounds silly, but thats the point. It wont happen.

They already have gun control laws. Ramp them up to stricter rules might help. perhaps some of the southern states adopting NY's laws might help. But there is zero way to prevent a person who wants to kill from killing. 9/11 should have taught you something. People kill people and they dont need a gun to do it. I have children, and I have no issue with school officials being armed, after all schools are entrusted with not only teaching the children but they are responsible for their welfare. The laws prevents guns from entering schools is being ignored now, what makes you think a killer is gonna give up the gun he currently has?

Making stricter laws will only neuter the folks who follow the laws, individuals with criminal records cant legally get a gun now, but they still got them, and they will continue to get them.

Wanna ban cars as well since folks drive drunk and kill people every day? Some folks just arent concerned with consequences, laws and breaking such.

Thats the problem. Fix that problem first.

The idea is not to make it easy for those who wants to kill..9/11 happened 14 years ago and killed 3,000 people..Guns killed 360,000 people since then..

You're clearly missing the point, and no 9/11 didnt just kill 3,000 people, people are still dying due that incident today in one form or another, plus an entire industry of work and travel was thoroughly destroyed. many lives were affected beyond just that number 14 years ago. the point is, people will kill if they want to. How do you firstly recover ALL the guns owned by citizens? You really think a persons who has been planning to kill is gonna give up his weapons? No chance. Good luck with your reform.

Everything else that is illegal is readily available, only people that obey laws follow them. people who commit crimes will never.

No, you are missing the point..People will kill but let's make it less efficient..Let them try mass killings with knives or some other means...Let them come up with a miraculous 9/11 plan to execute their wishes..Lets not make it as easy as getting a gun from a guy selling them out of the trunk of his car..

360,000 people died by guns since 9/11...Minus the people dying from cancer as a result of 9/11..They would have to execute 9/11 another 120 times to catch up to the number of people killed with guns..

No one needs assault style weapons with high capacity clips to defend their home or hunt. Gun ownership is actually going down! Fewer new gun owners every year. It's a small percentage of people who already own guns who are buying more!

“There are all these claims that gun ownership is going through the roof,” said Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. “But I suspect the increase in gun sales has been limited mostly to current gun owners. The most reputable surveys show a decline over time in the share of households with guns.”

That decline, which has been studied by researchers for years but is relatively unknown among the general public, suggests that even as the conversation on guns remains contentious, a broad shift away from gun ownership is under way in a growing number of American homes. It also raises questions about the future politics of gun control. Will efforts to regulate guns eventually meet with less resistance if they are increasingly concentrated in fewer hands — or more resistance?