If we were trying to win, the team may have won 33 games with the squad they had, now were suppose to have a better squad and fans are happy with 33 wins.

Phil doesn't want to talk playoffs, somehow that sounds like "I don't want to hold anyone accountable if we don't make the playoffs"

No phil didn't get that 2nd star to roll with melo, and thats fine, but this team better be top 5 defensively.

knicks1248 wrote:well if you guys are saying we win with talent, then give fisher and phil a complete pass last yr for not having talent, wtf is going to happen this yr if we win 15 extra games...we fckn tanked last season, that means we did everything possible to lose.

If we were trying to win, the team may have won 33 games with the squad they had, now were suppose to have a better squad and fans are happy with 33 wins.

Phil doesn't want to talk playoffs, somehow that sounds like "I don't want to hold anyone accountable if we don't make the playoffs"

No phil didn't get that 2nd star to roll with melo, and thats fine, but this team better be top 5 defensively.

Cartman718 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:well if you guys are saying we win with talent, then give fisher and phil a complete pass last yr for not having talent, wtf is going to happen this yr if we win 15 extra games...we fckn tanked last season, that means we did everything possible to lose.

If we were trying to win, the team may have won 33 games with the squad they had, now were suppose to have a better squad and fans are happy with 33 wins.

Phil doesn't want to talk playoffs, somehow that sounds like "I don't want to hold anyone accountable if we don't make the playoffs"

No phil didn't get that 2nd star to roll with melo, and thats fine, but this team better be top 5 defensively.

We clean house after going 5-36..

i am sorry did you say you are a homer?

and a realist...

Some fans want instant gratification and need something tangible, like a shiny new toy to keep them satisfied. If things go wrong, they can point fingers and start the narrative again.

Some fans are more patient and like the analysis and to read between the lines at what is being built. If things go wrong, they bide their time by proposing changes or tweaks to the model.

Some fans are optimistic and relish the enjoyment of a positive experience. If things go wrong they focus on the positives.

Some fans are fixated on the negative and look to how things need to improve. If things go wrong they feel validated.

I fall into the patient category and am willing to see how it all starts to work. If it means a 30 win season with moments of great progress and future hope and roster maneuverability.....I can live with it for this coming year. The expectation is not to be world beaters but for the team to take steps forward this year and to continue to show improvement every year.

Cartman718 wrote:5-36 is real?

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:It i not about how many wins we will have.
It s about how we will compete in every game.
NBA is tough and a lot of superior talent and well establish teams will come to play.
I will be fine with any number if I will see structured smart bbal and all around effort on both ends.

Noooo..Don't get it twisted, it's about the wins...Hahn said Orientation is over, he knows it's about the wins..

Wins are good. But to me its a bonus.
My expectation are low.
I learned my lessons with this Knicks and not going to get exited about any unfinished product, especially a product so early in development. Baby steps...

This is NY..It's always about the wins..

oh ok i see we are in new york and according to you, the typical new yorker and the representative of all new york sports fans: it's about how many wins, no matter what the circumstances.

can we throw in greedy, new yorkers are greedy?

how about selfish?

arrogant? rude? not as smart as they think?

oh for the good old days with isaiah thomas saying "welcome to the playoffs"!

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:It i not about how many wins we will have.
It s about how we will compete in every game.
NBA is tough and a lot of superior talent and well establish teams will come to play.
I will be fine with any number if I will see structured smart bbal and all around effort on both ends.

Noooo..Don't get it twisted, it's about the wins...Hahn said Orientation is over, he knows it's about the wins..

hahn represents knick fanbase? gtfo. it's a two-year narrative arc. nobody is making predictions about playoffs. your agenda is tiresome.

Tell that to the fans who have not renewed season tix or the secondary market participants that got hosed holding Knick tickets last year..

ok i will: calling all douchebag idiot knick fans out there who want to win now and like the owner interfering and making the knicks an embarrassment for 15 years, who wear laker jerseys and chant "mvp" when bryant plays, who want to be entertained-- do not renew your tickets and don't watch any games until the knicks are respectable and truly competitive again. your fandom is not needed.

knicks1248 wrote:well if you guys are saying we win with talent, then give fisher and phil a complete pass last yr for not having talent, wtf is going to happen this yr if we win 15 extra games...we fckn tanked last season, that means we did everything possible to lose.

If we were trying to win, the team may have won 33 games with the squad they had, now were suppose to have a better squad and fans are happy with 33 wins.

Phil doesn't want to talk playoffs, somehow that sounds like "I don't want to hold anyone accountable if we don't make the playoffs"

No phil didn't get that 2nd star to roll with melo, and thats fine, but this team better be top 5 defensively.

Phil has added the needed defensive Bigs to make it possible for this team to make massive improvements defensively. RoLo, O'Quinn, KP, Seraphin and Amundson are all capable defenders.

Robin Lopez
Defense Category	GP	G	DFGM	DFGA	DFG%	FREQ	FG%	Diff%
Overall	                59	59	6.1	13.2	46.0	100%	47.9	-1.8
3 Pointers	        59	31	0.4	0.9	38.2	7.1%	32.5	 5.7
2 Pointers	        59	59	5.7	12.3	46.6	92.9%	49.9	-3.3
Less Than 6 Ft	        59	58	3.5	6.4	54.7	48.1%	59.7	-5.1
Less Than 10 Ft	        59	59	4.4	8.8	49.4	66.9%	54.7	-5.3
Greater Than 15 Ft	59	57	1.3	3.3	38.5	24.6%	37.6	 1.0
Kyle O'Quinn
Defense Category	GP	G	DFGM	DFGA	DFG%	FREQ	FG%	Diff%
Overall	                50	50	2.9	6.3	45.1	100%	47.3	-2.1
3 Pointers	        50	23	0.3	0.9	34.1	13.9%	34.3	-0.2
2 Pointers	        50	49	2.6	5.5	46.9	86.1%	50.0	-3.2
Less Than 6 Ft	        50	43	1.6	2.7	57.8	42.6%	60.6	-2.9
Less Than 10 Ft	        50	47	1.9	3.6	51.9	57.1%	55.3	-3.4
Greater Than 15 Ft	50	40	0.8	2.3	35.4	35.6%	37.1	-1.7
Kevin Serphin
Defense Category	GP	G	DFGM	DFGA	DFG%	FREQ	FG%	Diff%
Overall	                78	78	2.8	6.3	44.1	100%	46.2	-2.1
3 Pointers	        78	42	0.3	0.7	38.5	10.5%	33.9	 4.6
2 Pointers	        78	78	2.5	5.7	44.8	89.5%	48.9	-4.1
Less Than 6 Ft	        78	73	1.6	3.1	53.3	48.6%	57.7	-4.4
Less Than 10 Ft	        78	76	2.1	4.2	50.3	65.6%	53.1	-2.8
Greater Than 15 Ft	78	62	0.6	1.6	35.9	25.9%	36.8	-0.8

The roster has better defensive players throughout the lineup and we need guys to step up their effort on the perimeter. Afflalo, Jerian, Gallo should be able to defend at an acceptable level. It remains to be seen if Early will be in the rotation or if Thanasis will make the final roster. They have enough athletic ability to defend with solid big man defenders behind them. They should be able to ICE PnR plays and with trustworthy Rim Protectors behind them they should be more aggressive defending the 3pt line.

Phil also mentioned using pressure, traps and some zone this year. I'll be interested to see if they actually employ those techniques.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:well if you guys are saying we win with talent, then give fisher and phil a complete pass last yr for not having talent, wtf is going to happen this yr if we win 15 extra games...we fckn tanked last season, that means we did everything possible to lose.

If we were trying to win, the team may have won 33 games with the squad they had, now were suppose to have a better squad and fans are happy with 33 wins.

Phil doesn't want to talk playoffs, somehow that sounds like "I don't want to hold anyone accountable if we don't make the playoffs"

No phil didn't get that 2nd star to roll with melo, and thats fine, but this team better be top 5 defensively.

you have lost whatever mind you may have ever had.

I would love to hear your 3 yr out look on this team, because you seem like your living in a 90's fantasy. Anyone who thinks 33 wins means we're on our way, is being completely naive.

Last season we lost 20 of the first 25 or so games by less than 5 points, (in some cases blew a 4th quarter lead) it became so deflating, that by december Phil through his hands in the air and quietly announce a fire sale, that's after 7 wks of basketball.

Between 2003 and 20010 we had a few seasons where we ended up winning no more than 30+ wins, we had multiple promising young players like lee, nate, gallo, douglas. Some of those guys played at least 3 season in NY, and got slightly better year after year, but never took a leap, just baby steps. Team never got better, and the future remain cloudy at best. You know what happen next, bye bye young players

DK I'm telling you know, there is enough fkn talent on this team to win 40 to 45 wins, and if they don't, I promise you, patience will run thin faster than you think, and they'll be more drastic changes. It's the nature of losing in a big market, not to mention that you have a top 5 pick that some people call a steal, or possible overall #1. Thats an impact guy, or suppose to be, baby steps are for late 1st rounders, and 2nd rounders. If you get that pick wrong, can you imagine the set back, especially with no pick in the following draft.

Dude 40 wins isn't a option, the bucks did last yr.

Look, I understand the team isn't overly talented, but get your guys to play hard defensively, quicken the pace for easy basket, hit your free throws, share the ball, and you will win your fair share of games. If a Coach can't do that, why do i need you?

holfresh wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:well if you guys are saying we win with talent, then give fisher and phil a complete pass last yr for not having talent, wtf is going to happen this yr if we win 15 extra games...we fckn tanked last season, that means we did everything possible to lose.

If we were trying to win, the team may have won 33 games with the squad they had, now were suppose to have a better squad and fans are happy with 33 wins.

Phil doesn't want to talk playoffs, somehow that sounds like "I don't want to hold anyone accountable if we don't make the playoffs"

No phil didn't get that 2nd star to roll with melo, and thats fine, but this team better be top 5 defensively.

you have lost whatever mind you may have ever had.

I would love to hear your 3 yr out look on this team, because you seem like your living in a 90's fantasy. Anyone who thinks 33 wins means we're on our way, is being completely naive.

Last season we lost 20 of the first 25 or so games by less than 5 points, (in some cases blew a 4th quarter lead) it became so deflating, that by december Phil through his hands in the air and quietly announce a fire sale, that's after 7 wks of basketball.

Between 2003 and 20010 we had a few seasons where we ended up winning no more than 30+ wins, we had multiple promising young players like lee, nate, gallo, douglas. Some of those guys played at least 3 season in NY, and got slightly better year after year, but never took a leap, just baby steps. Team never got better, and the future remain cloudy at best. You know what happen next, bye bye young players

DK I'm telling you know, there is enough fkn talent on this team to win 40 to 45 wins, and if they don't, I promise you, patience will run thin faster than you think, and they'll be more drastic changes. It's the nature of losing in a big market, not to mention that you have a top 5 pick that some people call a steal, or possible overall #1. Thats an impact guy, or suppose to be, baby steps are for late 1st rounders, and 2nd rounders. If you get that pick wrong, can you imagine the set back, especially with no pick in the following draft.

Dude 40 wins isn't a option, the bucks did last yr.

Look, I understand the team isn't overly talented, but get your guys to play hard defensively, quicken the pace for easy basket, hit your free throws, share the ball, and you will win your fair share of games. If a Coach can't do that, why do i need you?

I am a bit more optimistic about this team. I think Rolo, Afflalo, and a healthy Melo and Calderon will add a lot. If several of the group of Grant, Porzingis, Seraphin, O'Quinn, Williams, Vujacic, Early, Galloway etc. turn into solid contributing role players the Knicks will be in pretty good shape. I am hoping for 44-46 wins. Hopefully the depth and youth the Knicks have will help limit minutes and keep guys healthy.

And if the win total is between 25/30 games, what will your new assessment be?..Does it depend on how they play?

People need to get last year's team out of their heads. The majority of this team's rotation this year will be new players. Just compare who will be the most likely major contributors this year to last year. No great players added but most definitely an improvement on both ends of the court.

Player	                Age	G	GS ▾	MP      2015-16
Carmelo Anthony	        30	40	40	35.7    Carmelo Anthony
Jose Calderon	        33	42	42	30.2    Jose Calderon
Jason Smith	        28	82	31	21.8	Robin Lopez
Tim Hardaway	        22	70	30	24.0	Jerian Grant
Iman Shumpert	        24	24	24	26.0	Arron Afflalo
Shane Larkin	        22	76	22	24.5	Kristaps Porzingis
Quincy Acy	        24	68	22	18.9	Kyle O'Quinn
Andrea Bargnani	        29	29	22	27.1    Kevin Seraphin
Samuel Dalembert	33	32	21	17.0	Derrick Williams
Langston Galloway	23	45	41	32.4	Langston Galloway	
Lou Amundson	        32	41	35	20.9	Lou Amundson
Lance Thomas	        26	40	24	26.0	Lance Thomas
Cleanthony Early	23	39	7	16.6	Cleanthony Early
Cole Aldrich	        26	61	16	16.0	Sasha Vujacic
Amar'e Stoudemire	32	36	14	24.0	Thanasis Antetokounmpo
Alexey Shved	        26	16	9	26.4	Wesley Saunders
J.R. Smith	        29	24	6	25.8	Darion Atkins
                                                        Travis Trice
                                                        Dajuan Summers

IMO you have to be assuming this will be a really bad team, to think 25 or 30 wins. Meaning that we don't have a top 6 rotation that is at least Middle of the Pack NBA quality. I would LOVE to see you break down why you think this team can't put a representative NBA rotation together from this group of talent. Why would this group not be able to play middle of the pack D or O?

15-25 wins- are teams playing for a high pick

25-35 wins- are usually bad teams and have players that won't be around next season

37-45 wins- are teams that are improving and are probably a player away from being elite

45-52 wins- playoff contender that could possible make a deep run

54 and up, should be a title contender