nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Melo has only been successful with the Dream Team.

Only time he's been paired up with other Elite players. His teams haven't exactly been juggernauts. Unless you perhaps feel one of his team was a pre season pick to win a title and he just F'd up.

He won at Syracuse and did go to the western conference finals. He hasn't had a lot of talent around him in his career. He has logged more minutes with undrafted free agents then any guy in the league that I can think of.

I'm convinced that Melo can win here in NY with this team. The history I posted above suggests that putting Melo with solid NBA level players will usually be enough to win games. Seems that the formula has been the top 4 players collective PER being over 73. IMO that is entirely possible that they could come close to that this year. Melo, RoLo, Afflalo are each capable of above 15.0 PER. We would need at least one or 2 more players to come close to a 15.0 PER. Clearly the more players you have with above league avg production it bodes well for your teams success. You've gotta have at least 4 above avg Production players getting big minutes in order to be one of the better teams. When Melo has had that level of help at the least he's been able to win. Obviously we want to have more than just 4 guys with above avg production in order to be a contender.

2012-13 Knicks 54-28  Eastern Conference Semis
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	67	67	37.0	28.7	2.0	4.9	6.9	2.6	0.78	0.48	2.6	3.1	1.0	24.8
J.R. Smith, SG	        80	0	33.5	18.1	0.8	4.5	5.3	2.7	1.25	0.30	1.7	2.8	1.6	17.7
Raymond Felton, PG	68	68	34.0	13.9	0.8	2.1	2.9	5.5	1.38	0.21	2.3	1.9	2.4	15.2
Tyson Chandler, C	66	66	32.8	10.4	4.1	6.6	10.7	0.9	0.64	1.14	1.3	2.8	0.7	18.9 = 76.6
2008-09 Nuggets 54-28  Western Conference Finals
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	66	66	34.5	22.8	1.6	5.2	6.8	3.4	1.14	0.36	3.0	3.0	1.1	19.1
Chauncey Billups, PG	77	77	35.3	17.9	0.4	2.6	3.0	6.4	1.17	0.22	2.2	2.1	2.8	18.9
J.R. Smith, SG	        81	18	27.7	15.2	0.5	3.1	3.7	2.8	0.96	0.17	1.9	2.3	1.5	16.8
Nene Hilario, PF	77	76	32.6	14.6	2.4	5.4	7.8	1.4	1.23	1.31	1.9	3.6	0.7	18.8 = 73.6
2007-08 Nuggets 50-32  Western Conference 1st Round
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Allen Iverson, SG	82	82	41.8	26.4	0.6	2.4	3.0	7.1	1.95	0.15	3.0	1.3	2.4	21.1
Carmelo Anthony, SF	77	77	36.4	25.7	2.3	5.1	7.4	3.4	1.27	0.51	3.3	3.3	1.0	21.3
Kenyon Martin, PF	71	71	30.4	12.4	1.5	5.0	6.5	1.3	1.24	1.20	1.3	3.3	1.0	14.8
J.R. Smith, SG	        74	0	19.2	12.3	0.6	1.5	2.1	1.7	0.84	0.16	1.5	1.9	1.1	18.3 = 75.5

BBal is about team not about one player.
Even the game greats need to get together to win.
When Melo had real leaders and warriors on his team he was part of the success.
When he had non of that he was a part of the failure.
And every time he put himself in the position to fail himself by following his priorities - brand, stats, star attention, celeb status, and to get as much $$$ as he can.
I think the winning share he get is exactly what he deserved.

My interest is in how he was most successful in the past and what it seems Phil is trying to do with the rest of the roster around him. As I posted above. Success seems to be less about what Melo does by himself as much as it is about how the rest of the team is able to perform around him. Put good players around him and he's able to win games. As this roster is built up and players develop we will win games. That's really all I care about when it comes to Melo. Nothing about him really is detrimental to winning when he has good players around him. It's ALWAYS been about TEAM more than the rare Elite individual. As flawed as Melo is, if we build a great team we will have a chance to win a Title.

i thought the whole point of winning is to get good players. has melo just had a career's worth of bad luck and bad gm'ing? is he some sort of innocent victim for virtually bis entire career? strange post.

at any rate... technically every one of the thirty teams has a chance... they just don't have a realistic chance this season. and they don't have a first rounder in 2016 and the free agent market looks pretty slim outside of durant. hence you're asking for tremendous growth by the rookies in their sophomore campaigns AND players like williams blossoming by 2016-2017. even then, unless melo shows genuine growth of his own (passing, playmaking, defending) while remaining healthy-- the knicks probably don't make it out of the second round in 2016-2017. and melo is getting older and the tires are getting bald.

by 2017-2018, melo will be in the penultimate year of his contract... 33.5 years old and 15 seasons into his glorious career. how many 33-34 year old players play over 32 minutes a game?

what i am driving at is that, by the time the knicks have a truly viable chance at a title, melo could well be a sixth man... making the notion of "building a good team around him" an afterthought.

GustavBahler wrote:http://www.designntrend.com/articles/61314/20150922/knicks-porzingis-praises-carmelo-anthony-for-training-him.htm

Knicks' Porzingis Praises Carmelo Anthony For Training Him: 'Playing One-On-One A Lot'

Cant cut and paste, but its good to know they're getting on the same page, and glad Melo is trying to help Porzingis get ready for the NBA.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:Melo has only been successful with the Dream Team.

Only time he's been paired up with other Elite players. His teams haven't exactly been juggernauts. Unless you perhaps feel one of his team was a pre season pick to win a title and he just F'd up.

He won at Syracuse and did go to the western conference finals. He hasn't had a lot of talent around him in his career. He has logged more minutes with undrafted free agents then any guy in the league that I can think of.

I'm convinced that Melo can win here in NY with this team. The history I posted above suggests that putting Melo with solid NBA level players will usually be enough to win games. Seems that the formula has been the top 4 players collective PER being over 73. IMO that is entirely possible that they could come close to that this year. Melo, RoLo, Afflalo are each capable of above 15.0 PER. We would need at least one or 2 more players to come close to a 15.0 PER. Clearly the more players you have with above league avg production it bodes well for your teams success. You've gotta have at least 4 above avg Production players getting big minutes in order to be one of the better teams. When Melo has had that level of help at the least he's been able to win. Obviously we want to have more than just 4 guys with above avg production in order to be a contender.

2012-13 Knicks 54-28  Eastern Conference Semis
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	67	67	37.0	28.7	2.0	4.9	6.9	2.6	0.78	0.48	2.6	3.1	1.0	24.8
J.R. Smith, SG	        80	0	33.5	18.1	0.8	4.5	5.3	2.7	1.25	0.30	1.7	2.8	1.6	17.7
Raymond Felton, PG	68	68	34.0	13.9	0.8	2.1	2.9	5.5	1.38	0.21	2.3	1.9	2.4	15.2
Tyson Chandler, C	66	66	32.8	10.4	4.1	6.6	10.7	0.9	0.64	1.14	1.3	2.8	0.7	18.9 = 76.6
2008-09 Nuggets 54-28  Western Conference Finals
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Carmelo Anthony, SF	66	66	34.5	22.8	1.6	5.2	6.8	3.4	1.14	0.36	3.0	3.0	1.1	19.1
Chauncey Billups, PG	77	77	35.3	17.9	0.4	2.6	3.0	6.4	1.17	0.22	2.2	2.1	2.8	18.9
J.R. Smith, SG	        81	18	27.7	15.2	0.5	3.1	3.7	2.8	0.96	0.17	1.9	2.3	1.5	16.8
Nene Hilario, PF	77	76	32.6	14.6	2.4	5.4	7.8	1.4	1.23	1.31	1.9	3.6	0.7	18.8 = 73.6
2007-08 Nuggets 50-32  Western Conference 1st Round
PLAYER	                GP	GS	MIN	PPG	OFFR	DEFR	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TPG	FPG	A/TO	PER
Allen Iverson, SG	82	82	41.8	26.4	0.6	2.4	3.0	7.1	1.95	0.15	3.0	1.3	2.4	21.1
Carmelo Anthony, SF	77	77	36.4	25.7	2.3	5.1	7.4	3.4	1.27	0.51	3.3	3.3	1.0	21.3
Kenyon Martin, PF	71	71	30.4	12.4	1.5	5.0	6.5	1.3	1.24	1.20	1.3	3.3	1.0	14.8
J.R. Smith, SG	        74	0	19.2	12.3	0.6	1.5	2.1	1.7	0.84	0.16	1.5	1.9	1.1	18.3 = 75.5

BBal is about team not about one player.
Even the game greats need to get together to win.
When Melo had real leaders and warriors on his team he was part of the success.
When he had non of that he was a part of the failure.
And every time he put himself in the position to fail himself by following his priorities - brand, stats, star attention, celeb status, and to get as much $$$ as he can.
I think the winning share he get is exactly what he deserved.

My interest is in how he was most successful in the past and what it seems Phil is trying to do with the rest of the roster around him. As I posted above. Success seems to be less about what Melo does by himself as much as it is about how the rest of the team is able to perform around him. Put good players around him and he's able to win games. As this roster is built up and players develop we will win games. That's really all I care about when it comes to Melo. Nothing about him really is detrimental to winning when he has good players around him. It's ALWAYS been about TEAM more than the rare Elite individual. As flawed as Melo is, if we build a great team we will have a chance to win a Title.

i thought the whole point of winning is to get good players. has melo just had a career's worth of bad luck and bad gm'ing? is he some sort of innocent victim for virtually bis entire career? strange post.

at any rate... technically every one of the thirty teams has a chance... they just don't have a realistic chance this season. and they don't have a first rounder in 2016 and the free agent market looks pretty slim outside of durant. hence you're asking for tremendous growth by the rookies in their sophomore campaigns AND players like williams blossoming by 2016-2017. even then, unless melo shows genuine growth of his own (passing, playmaking, defending) while remaining healthy-- the knicks probably don't make it out of the second round in 2016-2017. and melo is getting older and the tires are getting bald.

by 2017-2018, melo will be in the penultimate year of his contract... 33.5 years old and 15 seasons into his glorious career. how many 33-34 year old players play over 32 minutes a game?

what i am driving at is that, by the time the knicks have a truly viable chance at a title, melo could well be a sixth man... making the notion of "building a good team around him" an afterthought.

Melo getting older is really not the point. Lebron and Melo are basically the same age. When it comes to guys that are as talented as they are, there's a good chance they will still be able to contribute at a high level for several more years. They are highly skilled and in the NBA that level of skill ages well. He shouldn't have to carry as much of the load as the team improves around him, so we need to stop with the sixth man stuff. Dirk was 32 when he won his title. Is Dirk a F'n sixth man even now??? How about Duncan? KG was 31 when he joined the C's and 33 when they got to the 2nd Finals appearance. Paul Pierce was still a starter at age 37!!! Enough with the trope about Melo being too old by the time this team is ready to win.