Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

Think about it, when he got his first start he racked up 136 points...no player has ever done that in the NBA since the NBA/ABA merger...no one. All the team did was win when he got the keys, no denying that. And we could have had the same exact team the following season WITH Lin.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

you could stand to show a little gratitude. without lin's heroic run the knicks were headed to the lottery. the team moral was absolutely at a very low point. lin brought the team back to life and gave the entire team a lift, providing the catalyst that propelled them back into the playoff hunt.

lin seemingly came out of nowhere, and was forced to play at the nba level for 35-40 minutes a night, after having played zero minutes at the nba level that season. he sacrificed his body until his body gave out. no shame in that, but what is a shame is that you conveniently left that part out.

lastly, lin did the right thing in sitting out. as soon as d'antoni resigned in disgust, lin started getting jerked around, and for no other reason than woodson's lukewarm attitude towards someone who wan't one of "his guys," and of course of course... melo's ego.

again, without lin, the melo-centric knicks would have missed the playoffs in the 66-game season, and melo would have made the playoffs only 2 out of 5 opportunities in a knick uniform, further confirming his jayvee season superstar status....

LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.

Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.

"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo isn't at the top of the list of Elite Players. He's really good but he's not the top tier. When you accept that and look to not just him but the rest of the team then you can really address the failings of the team and what needs to happen is for the rest of the team to improve and play better. There's too much focus on Melo as an individual.

Whether you are considered an elite player or the elite of the elite or not, how does it factor into this?

"PLAY DEFENSE

KEEP MOUTH SHUT TO THE PRESS WITH ANTI TEAM/DIVISIVE/SELFISH/CONTROVERSIAL COMMENTARY

SHOW UP IN ELITE PHYSICAL CONDITION/SHAPE RELATIVE TO THE STANDARD OF OTHER ELITE PLAYERS IN YOUR RESPECTIVE SPORT

BE A LEADER, EITHER OVERTLY OR THROUGH EXAMPLE

This is the BARE MINIMUM expected of ANY NBA PLAYER by their franchises. It's the BARE MINIMUM EXPECTED of any professional athlete."

Nixluva, I would love to hear you just say, just say it, just once, because whatever difference you and I might have, at least I can see you want the Knicks to win, that the kind of defense and defensive effort Melo puts on the floor is completely unacceptable. It's a poor example for the "signature" player on the roster, it is a clear exploit for other teams to beat the Knicks, it causes the Knicks to lose more than win. Whether you've got an All Star team around or not, every individual who puts on that Knicks jersey is beholden to play like a true professional, to conduct themselves with excellence, to give everything they''ve got on the floor each night.

The criticisms of Melo on this board are very SPECIFIC. They don't just occur on this board, they occur wherever people who talk about the NBA, talk about basketball. The clear limitations of his game ( including some really having to due with just raw effort and putting the work in) are discussed even by sports analysts around the country. No one here has reinvented the wheel in terms of their criticisms of Melo's game. Instead of even acknowledging them, others here simply go to the base excuses ( You are a hater, Melo never had real help, He has to carry the offense, Look At This Random Individual Award He Won 4 Years Ago, and on and on and on)

The focus spins on Melo as an individual because HE DOESN'T PLAY TEAM BASKETBALL AND HE DOESN'T PLAY THE RIGHT WAY, THUS HELPIN THE KNICKS LOSE MORE THAN THEY WIN.

Let's not kid ourselves, Crush Alot, Holfresh and JRodMC, will leap any chance to call someone a hater. Yet I've never seen any of them directly address the issues leveled at Melo that factor into helping the team win games instead of lose them.

Melo's defense sucks, more than that, it's a toxic mix of Don't Care/Don't Try/Screw You/What About My Lifestyle Website/So What that positively and absolutely hurts the Knicks each time he goes out onto the floor each night.

I don't hate Melo. I simply refuse to enable and make excuses for ANY PLAYER who puts on that Knicks jersey and does not represent it with true excellence. Win or lose, play the game the right way and play true team basketball. That's not asking for a championship, it's not asking for the moon, it's asking to honor the fans, the franchise, the game, the integrity of what it means to be a professional. The "focus" is on Melo, because unlike STAT and Bargs - Melo is not a problem looking to go away soon. Those who actually want excellence in Knicks players might be asked to endure at least 3 more full seasons of this kind of leaderless selfish behavior.

Traitors. It takes a traitor IMHO to blindly defend a player over and over who does things, when many of those things come down to commitment, effort and choice, that cause a team to lose more than win.

You can't be taken seriously..I'm not sure why folks get riled up when you post...I like lots of your post, outside of the race stuff, it's entertaining...I can address some of the issues you have posted but you won't respond because I rely on facts..For example, on constantly say Melo doesn't show up in shape...Well explain to me how does a player win player of the month two consecutive April and not be in shape..Melo is a decent defender but isn't always committed to defense..He is a terrible help defender and doesn't play consistent defense..I will admit that..But he does play defense, just not at the consistent level that he is capable of playing..

You joined during Linsanity and you profess to put "team above player"...U wanted to turn the keys over the Lin but he was possibly the worst defender ever to wear a Knick uniform..You never commented on that did you...Calderon torched him for 25 until we put Shump on Calderon, DWill torched him for 38, Rondo put up 20 pts ,20 reb and 17 asst on him, and I think he did it multiple times with the 20 pts and reb...Lin had multiple 10 turnover games for us...But you talk about the great defense being played during Linsanity, well it wasn't played by Lin..Lin refused to come back to play in the playoffs while low character JR Smith played for us on a blown out knee, doesn't that strike you as selfish, putting your own contract ahead of team???..Imagine if Melo did that..U won't address it because you supported it..Player ahead of team..

The Knicks experienced a 54 win season and a second round appearance with Melo and some old dudes..You still think the problem is Melo and not a supporting cast..Deal me some facts that I get into..All the talk with no facts is just pointless yapping...Get it off your chest..I do that a lot with Phil...You have zero supporting evidence behind what you say...This is why it's called hate..My gripe with Phil is plain to see...I show evidence..We can start with Fisher and 17 wins..That's how it works..

Yeah, not to sidetrack but Lin did alot of things we hate from players, but there's no denying he was good for us. i wouldnt blame players getting hyped and not wanting to be part of the "Linsanity" though and what he was able to accomplish during that stretch was legit and history making. The one point I really take offense to is criticizing a player for not playing injured. They wernt beating the Heat, I was surprised it wasnt a sweep.

Think about it, when he got his first start he racked up 136 points...no player has ever done that in the NBA since the NBA/ABA merger...no one. All the team did was win when he got the keys, no denying that. And we could have had the same exact team the following season WITH Lin.

I not saying he didn't do good things, my point to TT was that if you are going to hold people accountable for their defense, like Melo, then you can't give Lin a pass...

Lin may not be a good defender but has he been accused of not trying?

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

WaltLongmire wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:At least you can debate Crush and Holfresh. I've yet to read a coherent post from JRod in all these years. He says a lot but doesn't say anything. Most of his post focus on other posters and not the topic at hand. I can't understand for the life of me why someone feels the need to be he forum police every time they post. Those are the worst kind of posters IMO. I can tolerate just about everyone here but JRod is intolerable and the easiest to ignore knowing that you aren't missing anything if substance. Maybe he is more of a lurker and just an lazy writer. He's been doing this for years now I can't wrap my head around why he even bothers. Truly mind boggling to say the least.

There almost seems to be some kind of UK orthodoxy movement taking off around here, and you sometimes get the feeling that there is cult of personality thing taking shape right before our eyes.

People are looking at the past and reinterpreting things in an attempt to create a revisionist history of the team's past 5 years, and if you don't buy in, you're a hater.

The sycophant type fans are difficult for a rational person to deal with because if you're not with them 100%, you're against them and if you speak up too much you are put into that dismissive "hater" category. Reporters who are reporting the truth (despite their sometimes opinionistic use of it) are attacked as hacks, even if the info they are using is true.

"Away you evil writers! Just give me the good stuff...I need to keep my thoughts pure!"

I feel good about one thing, though- When I've tried to analyze and interpret Phil's words and relate them to actual players and gotten attacked for my speculating, I am in the same boat as an award winning reporter like Araton, who is attacked for the same type of thing...thinking and trying to understand what words and actions mean and reaching conclusions.

The comment TT made about the name on the front being more important than the name on the back is significant, IMO. Many don't feel this way, though, and I believe this stems from the fact that certain fans need something to latch on to so they can identify themselves with some form of "success," even if it is not a winning team. Certain players with individual accomplishments seem to satisfy this self-esteem requirement. Seems childish to me, but some will tell me should not be critical of those with more success and money than I have, so am I wrong about this.

I expect that I'll continue along the same lines in terms of my posts, though. Much more fun being on the outside taking shots at the powers that be, than taking part in an orthodox frenzy of cult of personality love and feeling good about myself after reading some cream puff posts designed to make me feel special.

That is not true...For me, all I ask is that you be consistent...You can't talk out both sides of your mouth and not think you aren't going to hear it..If you are going to hold one person accountable then hold all accountable...You can't make up stuff or you will be called out...If TT is going to complain about Melo's defense, don't tell me you should hand the keys to the car to Lin who was an even worse defender...The argument don't jive for which people will think you have an agenda...

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

You part of Anthony's "anticipatory" damage control team? Nothing Anthony does matters anymore?? No accountability for what he does on the court?

Talk about avoiding responsibility...

..If we don't win its on a 20 year old Latvian rookie?!

I assume that you are simply not expressing yourself properly, because the fate of this season is not on the shoulders of either of our rookies.

Seem to recall that everything is happy happy joy joy between Phil and Melo over, FA and the draft, anyway. Anthony has given his approval, even though we did not get one of the big FAs..No? Did I miss some criticisms that were not reported of what Phil did in the off season that only you are privy to?

Many players have to step up, but the guy getting the most money needs to show that he a pretty decent cast of players can take the step to another level. Anyone who does not believe this is searching for excuses to pull out on a rainy day.

You might be able to justify giving Anthony a pass for last year because he played injured, although he should have gotten the surgery immediately, put he is supposed to be healthy for the season, and its time for him to earn his money.

Revisit this 3/4 years down the road, and you can make a case for this having been the case, but for now, to even mention that the fate of the season is on on a draft pick seems a bit foolish.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Ilovestarks wrote:This is a to be or not to be year for Melo, either he steps up and lead this team,or he will ask to be traded... The KP dawn is already starting to itch his back...

You are misreading the tea leaves..Phil let Melo off the hook by not getting pieces to play with him..We didn't go after the big name FA and we didn't draft a player to compliment Melo..Pressure is now on Phil and Porzingus..Did Phil draft correctly and can Porzingis step up to the task??..I think it's a big year for both..

you're misinterpreting the course of events. melo had his day as the central focus of the knicks the last 4+ seasons. thanks in large part to his selfishness, greed, and foot-in-mouth disease the team has been in a state of high turnover, upheaval, disarray, all largely due to a poor culture driven by money and favoritism, factionalism.

lets hope dolan's final act as a meddlesome and loathesome owner is that ridiculous contract with the no-trade. i hope melo buys in and becomes a facilitator and willing participant in an offense that is the opposite of his values. if he doesn't i hope jackson finds a way to allow melo to peddle his brand in another part of the country.

you and kobe and stephen a smith can continue to lament in that braying manner but jackson is building a future regardless of melo. fact is, melo does not deserve a "supporting cast."

Well it's not about Melo anymore...It's about Porzingus..Phil isn't bringing in anyone who would compete with Porzingus for shots or minutes...What Melo does from here on out isn't an issue..Phil should talk to him about a trade if he wants to go to a winning team...You only seem to hold Woodson and Melo accountable since joining the board..Let's see if you hold Phil and Porzingus accountable..It's the Porzingus show, can he defend and facilitate?? NYers wants to know..

What are you talking about??!!

You part of Anthony's "anticipatory" damage control team? Nothing Anthony does matters anymore?? No accountability for what he does on the court?

Talk about avoiding responsibility...

..If we don't win its on a 20 year old Latvian rookie?!

I assume that you are simply not expressing yourself properly, because the fate of this season is not on the shoulders of either of our rookies.

Seem to recall that everything is happy happy joy joy between Phil and Melo over, FA and the draft, anyway. Anthony has given his approval, even though we did not get one of the big FAs..No? Did I miss some criticisms that were not reported of what Phil did in the off season that only you are privy to?

Many players have to step up, but the guy getting the most money needs to show that he a pretty decent cast of players can take the step to another level. Anyone who does not believe this is searching for excuses to pull out on a rainy day.

You might be able to justify giving Anthony a pass for last year because he played injured, although he should have gotten the surgery immediately, put he is supposed to be healthy for the season, and its time for him to earn his money.

Revisit this 3/4 years down the road, and you can make a case for this having been the case, but for now, to even mention that the fate of the season is on on a draft pick seems a bit foolish.

Did you happen to miss that Phil didn't want to talk to Aldridge because he might cut into KP's playing time at PF??..Did you miss that???..That means he is building around KP...