smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/628662562217967616

I had put this in the FA/Hot Stove thread- had not heard about the ACL tear at that time.

Pretty sad.

I have some issues with professionals playing in this kind of event given the money invested in them by their NBA teams.

Wonder if players would do this kind of thing if their contracts were not guaranteed?

I understand that there is a little matter of individual freedom, that there is a lot of pride involved in playing ball for your national team, and that a person could get hurt anywhere, but there is also the little matter of the millions of dollars attached to the health of a player and the teammates who just might depend on that player.

So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Ironically even if you did all that, they would likely be more likely to get injured when the season started due to the inactivity and lack of in game practice.

I pretty much anticipated this kind of response in my original comments. TripleThreat's comments are dead on, by the way.

Who said that they could not practice or work out in the off season? Who said you had to be inactive?

Will the Australian national team compensate Utah for loss of services? Did the USA team give Larry Bird a player of comparable talent to replace the loss of Paul George? Do you think Cam Newton playing Australian Rules Football after signing a major contract might have spooked the Panthers a bit?

So lets make believe that you are husband with a wife and 3 kids and you take the college account that you and your wife have built up for 15 years and lose the entire $100Gs in Vegas one weekend because you felt you deserved some fun...that would be OK for you to do?

An NBA career is only a short part of a player's life, but the money you make from it should be able to fuel the rest of a player's life if they are smart- and you will have many years to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Signing a player to a contract is an "investment" in you being made by a team- and they made chose to make you a part of their team instead of someone else they could have taken instead.

Are you of the opinion that once you get your guaranteed money you can do anything you want to do even if it put you at risk of injury and has the potential to affect your team and your teammates???

I understand guys are going to play for their countries and you can't stop it unless it is in a contract, but at what point do you have a responsibility to the team that is shelling out millions of dollars to you and allowing you to live a life that you could never have lived without that contract?

From what I've been able to learn about guys who post on UK, personal responsibility seems to be a forgotten element of "character" for many.

Having the "freedom" to do something does not necessarily make it a responsible thing to do.

Exum didn't do anything bad or stupid like Richardson or JPP, and if I'm Australian, I would feel proud that he was competing for my country, but the injury could have a big impact on the guys who pay him, and it has to be a consideration.

I know how I will feel if the Knicks come on strong at the end of the year, and either KP or Anthony get hurt playing for Latvia or the U.S. next year and one of them is out for the entire 16/17 season.

So you deem someone as having low character because they play basketball for their country? And posters as having low character because they don't tear into basketball players for playing basketball in the offseason (newsflash: all players do apart from the Eddy Currys)

Just because you think you are morally superior and richer of character to others it doesn't mean you actually are. It probably means you are self-delusional.

If this is what you respond with after you read what I wrote you might be the delusional one. Where do I ONLY link the concept of responsibility to playing basketball for your country???

I've brought this kind of thing up many times. Embiid riding on the funky duck thing with a bad leg... Richardson and Hill driving at crazy speeds and Richardson failing multiple tests for pot smoking...JPP playing around with fireworks, and yes...Anthony continuing to play when he knew he needed an operation.

There seems to be an attitude of "if makes you happy, do it," which overrides all other considerations.

Responsibility is only one part of "character."

Am I talking to someone from junior high, here? Should I look for the appropriate Dr. Seuss book that explains the concept for you?

Has nothing to do with being morally superior...I have failed to be responsible at times, and hopefully I've learned from these failures.

Responsibility means that you have made a commitment and have an obligation to someone or something else besides yourself. Could be a wife, children, girlfriend, country, job...whatever.

Responsibility means that you might have to give up some of your freedom to fulfill an obligation that you've made.

Guy plays for a national team...fine, but there should be some consideration of the risks involved when you are being paid immense sums of money by someone else, and perhaps there should be some financial consequences/givebacks if a player gets hurt doing this kind of thing.

Answer the questions-

Would you risk gambling away that college fund at a casino or on a "sure thing" at the track?

Do you take a 12 year old kid- lets make it your kid- in a car after smoking some weed and go 140MPH because its a thrill for you?

Would you party until the early hours of the morning on the same day you have a playoff game?

All about "responsibility," my friend. You say yes to any of these...and you don't have it.

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/628662562217967616

I had put this in the FA/Hot Stove thread- had not heard about the ACL tear at that time.

Pretty sad.

I have some issues with professionals playing in this kind of event given the money invested in them by their NBA teams.

Wonder if players would do this kind of thing if their contracts were not guaranteed?

I understand that there is a little matter of individual freedom, that there is a lot of pride involved in playing ball for your national team, and that a person could get hurt anywhere, but there is also the little matter of the millions of dollars attached to the health of a player and the teammates who just might depend on that player.

So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Ironically even if you did all that, they would likely be more likely to get injured when the season started due to the inactivity and lack of in game practice.

I pretty much anticipated this kind of response in my original comments. TripleThreat's comments are dead on, by the way.

Who said that they could not practice or work out in the off season? Who said you had to be inactive?

Will the Australian national team compensate Utah for loss of services? Did the USA team give Larry Bird a player of comparable talent to replace the loss of Paul George? Do you think Cam Newton playing Australian Rules Football after signing a major contract might have spooked the Panthers a bit?

So lets make believe that you are husband with a wife and 3 kids and you take the college account that you and your wife have built up for 15 years and lose the entire $100Gs in Vegas one weekend because you felt you deserved some fun...that would be OK for you to do?

An NBA career is only a short part of a player's life, but the money you make from it should be able to fuel the rest of a player's life if they are smart- and you will have many years to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Signing a player to a contract is an "investment" in you being made by a team- and they made chose to make you a part of their team instead of someone else they could have taken instead.

Are you of the opinion that once you get your guaranteed money you can do anything you want to do even if it put you at risk of injury and has the potential to affect your team and your teammates???

I understand guys are going to play for their countries and you can't stop it unless it is in a contract, but at what point do you have a responsibility to the team that is shelling out millions of dollars to you and allowing you to live a life that you could never have lived without that contract?

From what I've been able to learn about guys who post on UK, personal responsibility seems to be a forgotten element of "character" for many.

Having the "freedom" to do something does not necessarily make it a responsible thing to do.

Exum didn't do anything bad or stupid like Richardson or JPP, and if I'm Australian, I would feel proud that he was competing for my country, but the injury could have a big impact on the guys who pay him, and it has to be a consideration.

I know how I will feel if the Knicks come on strong at the end of the year, and either KP or Anthony get hurt playing for Latvia or the U.S. next year and one of them is out for the entire 16/17 season.

So you deem someone as having low character because they play basketball for their country? And posters as having low character because they don't tear into basketball players for playing basketball in the offseason (newsflash: all players do apart from the Eddy Currys)

Just because you think you are morally superior and richer of character to others it doesn't mean you actually are. It probably means you are self-delusional.

What are you talking about??!! Did I hit some kind of nerve, here?

If this is what you respond with after you read what I wrote you might be the delusional one. Where do I ONLY link the concept of responsibility to playing basketball for your country???

I've brought this kind of thing up many times. Embiid riding on the funky duck thing with a bad leg... Richardson and Hill driving at crazy speeds and Richardson failing multiple tests for pot smoking...JPP playing around with fireworks, and yes...Anthony continuing to play when he knew he needed an operation.

There seems to be an attitude of "if makes you happy, do it," which overrides all other considerations.

Responsibility is only one part of "character."

Am I talking to someone from junior high, here? Should I look for the appropriate Dr. Seuss book that explains the concept for you?

Has nothing to do with being morally superior...I have failed to be responsible at times, and hopefully I've learned from these failures.

Responsibility means that you have made a commitment and have an obligation to someone or something else besides yourself. Could be a wife, children, girlfriend, country, job...whatever.

Responsibility means that you might have to give up some of your freedom to fulfill an obligation that you've made.

Guy plays for a national team...fine, but there should be some consideration of the risks involved when you are being paid immense sums of money by someone else, and perhaps there should be some financial consequences/givebacks if a player gets hurt doing this kind of thing.

Answer the questions-

Would you risk gambling away that college fund at a casino or on a "sure thing" at the track?

Do you take a 12 year old kid- lets make it your kid- in a car after smoking some weed and go 140MPH because its a thrill for you?

Would you party until the early hours of the morning on the same day you have a playoff game?

All about "responsibility," my friend. You say yes to any of these...and you don't have it.

Great, more condescending attitude. In your style: are you familiar with the concept of freedom? That everything in life is a risk? Gadzuric got injured slipping in the shower- should players be banned from showering? You really think that **** Embiid was riding about on is dangerous? Should players be banned from walking up stairs?

Maybe we should go back to the good old days when slaves were wheeled out to fight in coliseums then returned to their cages.

NBA players are free men, they can do what they like in their free time, just like you and me can. Ooh drinking and smoking marijuana! Monsters! It's basketball, not the army, get some perspective. Speeding/wreck less driving is different because it endangers others lives.

Nalod wrote:Adhere to the contract. Weed is illegal in some places and if the contract says you don't smoke, and you signed the contract, then your not in compliance.
Don't matter what any of us think. If its a sanctioned event and team has insurance (80% paid to team if missed 41 or more games)then player is in compliance. Player contracts says no skydiving, then its on the player
if he goes splat. If it says no motorcycles, its on the player if he hugs a tree with it.

If it says he can play pick up, then its all good.

thats true.

perhaps the contract should be amended then. Or, perhaps this is something that the players union will not allow.

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Adhere to the contract. Weed is illegal in some places and if the contract says you don't smoke, and you signed the contract, then your not in compliance.
Don't matter what any of us think. If its a sanctioned event and team has insurance (80% paid to team if missed 41 or more games)then player is in compliance. Player contracts says no skydiving, then its on the player
if he goes splat. If it says no motorcycles, its on the player if he hugs a tree with it.

If it says he can play pick up, then its all good.

thats true.

perhaps the contract should be amended then. Or, perhaps this is something that the players union will not allow.

Maturity and profressionalism is adhering to the conditions of the contract. You put your name on it you own it.

Don't matter what we think, amendments or what ever. I don't like many rules I have to operate under. Its not for me to agree or not. I either work within them or risk expulsion.

Things change over time, so perhaps players can light up after a game and chillax on the plane.

so are you saying that if its not in the contract then you should be allowed to play? I agree.

I wonder why its not in there though.

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Adhere to the contract. Weed is illegal in some places and if the contract says you don't smoke, and you signed the contract, then your not in compliance.
Don't matter what any of us think. If its a sanctioned event and team has insurance (80% paid to team if missed 41 or more games)then player is in compliance. Player contracts says no skydiving, then its on the player
if he goes splat. If it says no motorcycles, its on the player if he hugs a tree with it.

If it says he can play pick up, then its all good.

thats true.

perhaps the contract should be amended then. Or, perhaps this is something that the players union will not allow.

Maturity and profressionalism is adhering to the conditions of the contract. You put your name on it you own it.

Don't matter what we think, amendments or what ever. I don't like many rules I have to operate under. Its not for me to agree or not. I either work within them or risk expulsion.

Things change over time, so perhaps players can light up after a game and chillax on the plane.

so are you saying that if its not in the contract then you should be allowed to play? I agree.

I wonder why its not in there though.

Same reason it's not in your contract, I expect- your employer might love to be able to control your life, but I doubt most employees would accept it

I would accept it if I wanted to sign a multi million dollar contract.

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Adhere to the contract. Weed is illegal in some places and if the contract says you don't smoke, and you signed the contract, then your not in compliance.
Don't matter what any of us think. If its a sanctioned event and team has insurance (80% paid to team if missed 41 or more games)then player is in compliance. Player contracts says no skydiving, then its on the player
if he goes splat. If it says no motorcycles, its on the player if he hugs a tree with it.

If it says he can play pick up, then its all good.

thats true.

perhaps the contract should be amended then. Or, perhaps this is something that the players union will not allow.

Maturity and profressionalism is adhering to the conditions of the contract. You put your name on it you own it.

Don't matter what we think, amendments or what ever. I don't like many rules I have to operate under. Its not for me to agree or not. I either work within them or risk expulsion.

Things change over time, so perhaps players can light up after a game and chillax on the plane.

so are you saying that if its not in the contract then you should be allowed to play? I agree.

I wonder why its not in there though.

Same reason it's not in your contract, I expect- your employer might love to be able to control your life, but I doubt most employees would accept it

I would accept it if I wanted to sign a multi million dollar contract.

But why would you agree to it if they were going to give you the same multi million dollar contract without those conditions?

obviously it would need to be a standard.

how about if you wanted to play football in the winter? Or hockey? Or an MMA fighter?

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Adhere to the contract. Weed is illegal in some places and if the contract says you don't smoke, and you signed the contract, then your not in compliance.
Don't matter what any of us think. If its a sanctioned event and team has insurance (80% paid to team if missed 41 or more games)then player is in compliance. Player contracts says no skydiving, then its on the player
if he goes splat. If it says no motorcycles, its on the player if he hugs a tree with it.

If it says he can play pick up, then its all good.

thats true.

perhaps the contract should be amended then. Or, perhaps this is something that the players union will not allow.

Maturity and profressionalism is adhering to the conditions of the contract. You put your name on it you own it.

Don't matter what we think, amendments or what ever. I don't like many rules I have to operate under. Its not for me to agree or not. I either work within them or risk expulsion.

Things change over time, so perhaps players can light up after a game and chillax on the plane.

so are you saying that if its not in the contract then you should be allowed to play? I agree.

I wonder why its not in there though.

Same reason it's not in your contract, I expect- your employer might love to be able to control your life, but I doubt most employees would accept it

I would accept it if I wanted to sign a multi million dollar contract.

But why would you agree to it if they were going to give you the same multi million dollar contract without those conditions?

obviously it would need to be a standard.

how about if you wanted to play football in the winter? Or hockey? Or an MMA fighter?

As a free man, that would be my choice. It's a slippery slope- why encourage employers to encroach on employees private lives further just because of basketball injuries- freedom is more important than basketball in my opinion.

I guess I should just go ahead and violate my non compete and take a night job.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Adhere to the contract. Weed is illegal in some places and if the contract says you don't smoke, and you signed the contract, then your not in compliance.
Don't matter what any of us think. If its a sanctioned event and team has insurance (80% paid to team if missed 41 or more games)then player is in compliance. Player contracts says no skydiving, then its on the player
if he goes splat. If it says no motorcycles, its on the player if he hugs a tree with it.

If it says he can play pick up, then its all good.

thats true.

perhaps the contract should be amended then. Or, perhaps this is something that the players union will not allow.

Maturity and profressionalism is adhering to the conditions of the contract. You put your name on it you own it.

Don't matter what we think, amendments or what ever. I don't like many rules I have to operate under. Its not for me to agree or not. I either work within them or risk expulsion.

Things change over time, so perhaps players can light up after a game and chillax on the plane.

so are you saying that if its not in the contract then you should be allowed to play? I agree.

I wonder why its not in there though.

Same reason it's not in your contract, I expect- your employer might love to be able to control your life, but I doubt most employees would accept it

I would accept it if I wanted to sign a multi million dollar contract.

But why would you agree to it if they were going to give you the same multi million dollar contract without those conditions?

obviously it would need to be a standard.

how about if you wanted to play football in the winter? Or hockey? Or an MMA fighter?

As a free man, that would be my choice. It's a slippery slope- why encourage employers to encroach on employees private lives further just because of basketball injuries- freedom is more important than basketball in my opinion.

I guess I should just go ahead and violate my non compete and take a night job.

Lose your job, your house, or your car...you still have your freedom.

You are fighting a losing battle with mr. smackeddog, who seems to live in a world where decisions and actions have no consequences.

Guaranteed contracts pretty much mean you can almost do anything you want with few consequences, but I wonder how many NBA players are going to want to play for Team USA if they are in a contract year or a free agent?

J. Lin's decision NOT to participate in the playoffs against Miami is a great example of what happens when that guaranteed money is not waiting for you if you get hurt.

Responsible players do exist, though:

Latvian power-forward Kristaps Porzingis won't play at Eurobasket 2015 for the Latvian National Team. The player will stay in USA with the Knicks.


Porzingis on missing summer with the Latvian NT: "It was tough decision, but I believe that in the future it will benefit me and Latvia's basketball."

I'm sure KP wanted to play for his national team, and I'm sure he will do so in the future, but he also has a responsibility to the team that chose him in the draft the team that will be paying him $28M over the next 5 years, and is betting its future on his development.

KP knows that he has to get stronger for the NBA season, and playing with the Latvian team will hinder this, so as a responsible athlete, he chose to work on his body- which he needs to do, instead of play- which he probably wants to do.

TripleThreat wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:What are you talking about??!! Did I hit some kind of nerve, here?

Would you party until the early hours of the morning on the same day you have a playoff game?

Longmire,

He's not here to try to have a discussion with your or even a civil conversation.

About time it just got put out in the open. Clearly there are guys here who are related to Melo, part of Melo's entourage, part of CAA, related to Melo's extended social network or family or people who just work for Melo on this board. Maybe even Melo himself shows up on occasion. No other reasonable explanation for the blind defense of NBA players, Melo's lack of excellence and pretty much any adherence to basic decency.

Melo could take an Uzi and shoot up a school yard and I really believe guys like holfresh, smackeddog and jrodmc would all find a way to blame someone else for it.

"That kid jumped up and RAN INTO THE BULLETS! You don't want to get shot? Don't go jumping up and screaming and running around when someone is emptying an automatic weapon into a schoolyard! DUH!"

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:
Answer the questions-

Would you risk gambling away that college fund at a casino or on a "sure thing" at the track?

Do you take a 12 year old kid- lets make it your kid- in a car after smoking some weed and go 140MPH because its a thrill for you?

Would you party until the early hours of the morning on the same day you have a playoff game?

All about "responsibility," my friend. You say yes to any of these...and you don't have it.

Great, more condescending attitude. In your style: are you familiar with the concept of freedom? That everything in life is a risk? Gadzuric got injured slipping in the shower- should players be banned from showering? You really think that **** Embiid was riding about on is dangerous? Should players be banned from walking up stairs?

Maybe we should go back to the good old days when slaves were wheeled out to fight in coliseums then returned to their cages.

NBA players are free men, they can do what they like in their free time, just like you and me can. Ooh drinking and smoking marijuana! Monsters! It's basketball, not the army, get some perspective. Speeding/wreck less driving is different because it endangers others lives.

I'm talking about responsibility, not repression.

Answer the questions, child. If you answer no...think about why you said no. If you answer yes, think about the consequences.

You clearly have some kind of tunnel vision about what I am saying- might be an issue in your past...I don't know.

Embiid was seen riding on the gizmo even with an injury that he needed an operation for- 260 lb man having the kind of spill I think JR had with his during the playoffs could have aggravated the injury even more. Nobody said he could not ride on the device, but he was a knucklehead for doing it.

Would seem that Sheldon Richardson is not a "free man" because of his pot smoking, neither is the pitcher on the Mets who just got a 162 game suspension for PEDs.

I used to smoke pot on occasion, and drink, but if I had done those things on my job, even if I wasn't hurting anyone, I would have been fired.

No Dr. Seuss, but some wisdom, anyway. Second one is extreme, but fits the argument.

...individuals have to accept responsibility for their own bad choices. If every time we choose a piece of shyte, society, at great expense, simply allows us to (trade) it for a pepperoni, then not only will we never learn to make smart choices, we will also surrender the freedom to choose, because a choice without consequences is no choice at all.
― Tom Robbins, Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas

“Our whole social order could self-destruct over the obsession with freedom disconnected from responsibility; where choice is imagined to be somehow independent of consequences.”
― Boyd K. Packer

Ah great, more condescending crap- ooh you even called me a child! Well done. My main issues with your posts are, like some other posters, you adopt such a critical condescending tone to some basketball players and posters that you never take a step back and think "actually I'm being a bit of a d***" (a frequent achievement for me!).

The reason I didn't answer your questions isn't because they are ingenious, but because the answers aren't interesting : I don't gamble, I don't drive. In my youth I did party immediately before work- I felt very rough but the world did not end and looking back I don't regret it. What does any of that have to do with players playing basketball in the offseason? You've gone off on some tangent about responsibility - now answer my question, do you think it's more responsible for a bball player not to play any bball in the offseason?

You've bizarrely tried to make out that this is an issue of morality, and I just do not see how a player playing in an international tournament is immoral/irresponsible. It's easy to sit on the Internet and lay moral judgement on players. They're young, they'll make mistakes, it's a learning process- I made many mistakes in my youth, everyone has to learn their own lessons.

As for smoking weed and riding around on hi technology gadgets, you're expecting 20 year old to have the same grasp of responsibility as you have as a 40 year old, it's daft. In my 20s I thought drugs were great and did a lot of them, but experiencing the downside changed my attitude towards them, so now at the age of 35 I have a different opinion. I'm not now going to blast 20 year old for making the same mistakes I used to