nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/28/jose-calderon-kyle-singler-zach-lavine-knicks-thunder-wolves-nba-free-agency

Jose Calderon, Knicks

Calderon's best basketball may be behind him, but I'm not quite ready to write off one of the league's most precise shooters and facilitators. Everything went wrong for Calderon last season: The learning curve of the triangle offense was a struggle for some teammates; Carmelo Anthony's injuries robbed the Knicks of their only star; a general lack of talent put New York at a nightly disadvantage; and most relevant of all, Calderon was bothered (and eventually sidelined) by an Achilles injury that compromised his season.

Each of those factors will be addressed in some fashion for the coming season, beginning with Calderon's health. For a player of Calderon's age (he'll turn 34 in September) to battle through a serious injury is never heartening for his future prospects. Yet Calderon expects to be fully healthy for the start of training camp, which should be good enough for a player who has never relied on athletic explosion. An injured Achilles hindered Calderon in subtler ways—not necessarily limiting his ability to get the shots he wanted, but nagging subtly on his lift and accompanying every jumper with a sharp pain.

It came as little surprise, then, that so many of Calderon's pull-up jumpers out of the pick-and-roll and spot-up threes from the week side would come up short. His shooting efficiency plummeted in both regards, robbing Calderon of one of the particular qualities that made him a perfect fit for the triangle. This year should be different. A healthier Calderon stands to benefit greatly from New York's partial rebuild and further acclimation to a motion system. Anthony and Arron Afflalo will be spoon-fed jump-shooting opportunities by Calderon's passing. Robin Lopez and Kristaps Porzingis will have a sharp, experienced pick-and-roll partner who doesn't need to dribble penetrate to create openings for others.

A healthy Calderon makes the Knicks better—not so much so that they might make the playoffs, but enough for his presence and influence to be notable all the same.

i said this the other day in another thread. Calderon returning to the player he was in Dallas (2 seasons ago he played/started 81 games, 11 pts/5 ast/1 turnover while shooting 45% from 3) will likely decide if this team has the potential to make the playoffs or not.

amazing how so many writers constantly gloss over defense. he is a 34 year old defensive sieve and as such is much closer to a zero-sum player even when healthy. come on si you're better than that!

That can't be right though. His efficiency is off the charts offensively. His TS had been very good, doesn't turn the ball over go much, his Ast% at times doubled his USG. He didn't shoot as good as he normally does last season so he became more of a liability. But if healthy and shooting to his standards should all this efficiency make him overall a positive contributor. Not to mention he is supposed to be a high character guy who you love to have in your locker room.

Well I sure hope that guy turns up this season

I actually meant for this to be a question as I'm not an advanced stats guru.

last year aside Jose is a good advanced stats guy, so saying he's a zero sum player is has no basis in reality.

This some of the last basketball Jose played before joining the Knicks last year: Actually take a look at this... people here have no clue this is a good player. Not great... he's got his limitations but he's good.

When your making Sam Dalembert look like a baller you know how to play

I remember arguing with people about Jose last year. As with everything bad that happened last year it allows the guys against Jose to keep up this false narrative that he's a horrible player. He's not a horrible player. He may have limitations but when you have a healthy Jose and a decent team he's a good PG to have on your roster.

This year we hope to have a healthy Jose and that will make things easier for Jerian and Galloway, if Jose is able to play like he normally does. The same goes for Melo. He's not this terrible team killing player that people try to make him out to be. We just need these guys to be healthy. Hopefully with a better roster we can keep these guys healthy this year. They shouldn't have to push so hard that they break.

at his best he is mediocre, not a difference maker. his career is one characterized by mediocrity. much of this is due to his being a lousy defender. that is not going to change. a bounceback season means recovering from outright suckitude and back to mediocrity.

Perhaps you don't understand how Efficiency works. Per 100 possessions they calculate how many points a player produces or gives up. For Jose's career he is a PLUS player in terms of his production.

        ORtg	DRtg
2012-13  126	111
2013-14  120	112
2014-15  103	113
Career   118	112

Jose's Win Share 48

2011-12 .136
2012-13 .165
2013-14 .122
2014-15 .033

Last year was the rare time when he was under water. He has not been a mediocre player for his career as you inaccurately stated.

"In a later chapter of Basketball on Paper, Oliver emphasized that Offensive Ratings shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. Introducing a concept he called "Skill Curves", he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role."

calderon's usage for his career is less than 18% so his offensive rating is overstated.

"Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute."

this needs no further elaboration. take a look at this instead:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

That's all great stuff but in the end I still don't see you providing much evidence that Jose is mediocre. His WS/48 has been above average and he's posted some solid shooting efficiencies and low turnovers over his career. He's had a career TS% of 57.5. He's not going to be less efficient at scoring the ball just because he takes more shots. He's not a ball dominant PG so of course his Usage will be low. That's actually a good thing in this offense. We want the ball moving and when Jose does have the ball we want efficient offense and not pounding the ball or selfish ball. Jose is a very capable guard at setting up his teammates and creating efficient scoring opportunities. He's not a DRose or John Wall type, but that doesn't make him mediocre in a team concept.

his TS% is quite good that is true. his assist to usage ratio has also been excellent. but his defense has been terrible and he does not get to the line. so i am pointing out his plusses and minuses.

you must ask yourself why has he not had more success in his career, especially in the playoffs. is it the "law of melo" ie there are always better teams with better players he has had to face and he never had the opportunity to play with really good players?

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/28/jose-calderon-kyle-singler-zach-lavine-knicks-thunder-wolves-nba-free-agency

Jose Calderon, Knicks

Calderon's best basketball may be behind him, but I'm not quite ready to write off one of the league's most precise shooters and facilitators. Everything went wrong for Calderon last season: The learning curve of the triangle offense was a struggle for some teammates; Carmelo Anthony's injuries robbed the Knicks of their only star; a general lack of talent put New York at a nightly disadvantage; and most relevant of all, Calderon was bothered (and eventually sidelined) by an Achilles injury that compromised his season.

Each of those factors will be addressed in some fashion for the coming season, beginning with Calderon's health. For a player of Calderon's age (he'll turn 34 in September) to battle through a serious injury is never heartening for his future prospects. Yet Calderon expects to be fully healthy for the start of training camp, which should be good enough for a player who has never relied on athletic explosion. An injured Achilles hindered Calderon in subtler ways—not necessarily limiting his ability to get the shots he wanted, but nagging subtly on his lift and accompanying every jumper with a sharp pain.

It came as little surprise, then, that so many of Calderon's pull-up jumpers out of the pick-and-roll and spot-up threes from the week side would come up short. His shooting efficiency plummeted in both regards, robbing Calderon of one of the particular qualities that made him a perfect fit for the triangle. This year should be different. A healthier Calderon stands to benefit greatly from New York's partial rebuild and further acclimation to a motion system. Anthony and Arron Afflalo will be spoon-fed jump-shooting opportunities by Calderon's passing. Robin Lopez and Kristaps Porzingis will have a sharp, experienced pick-and-roll partner who doesn't need to dribble penetrate to create openings for others.

A healthy Calderon makes the Knicks better—not so much so that they might make the playoffs, but enough for his presence and influence to be notable all the same.

i said this the other day in another thread. Calderon returning to the player he was in Dallas (2 seasons ago he played/started 81 games, 11 pts/5 ast/1 turnover while shooting 45% from 3) will likely decide if this team has the potential to make the playoffs or not.

amazing how so many writers constantly gloss over defense. he is a 34 year old defensive sieve and as such is much closer to a zero-sum player even when healthy. come on si you're better than that!

That can't be right though. His efficiency is off the charts offensively. His TS had been very good, doesn't turn the ball over go much, his Ast% at times doubled his USG. He didn't shoot as good as he normally does last season so he became more of a liability. But if healthy and shooting to his standards should all this efficiency make him overall a positive contributor. Not to mention he is supposed to be a high character guy who you love to have in your locker room.

Well I sure hope that guy turns up this season

I actually meant for this to be a question as I'm not an advanced stats guru.

last year aside Jose is a good advanced stats guy, so saying he's a zero sum player is has no basis in reality.

This some of the last basketball Jose played before joining the Knicks last year: Actually take a look at this... people here have no clue this is a good player. Not great... he's got his limitations but he's good.

When your making Sam Dalembert look like a baller you know how to play

I remember arguing with people about Jose last year. As with everything bad that happened last year it allows the guys against Jose to keep up this false narrative that he's a horrible player. He's not a horrible player. He may have limitations but when you have a healthy Jose and a decent team he's a good PG to have on your roster.

This year we hope to have a healthy Jose and that will make things easier for Jerian and Galloway, if Jose is able to play like he normally does. The same goes for Melo. He's not this terrible team killing player that people try to make him out to be. We just need these guys to be healthy. Hopefully with a better roster we can keep these guys healthy this year. They shouldn't have to push so hard that they break.

at his best he is mediocre, not a difference maker. his career is one characterized by mediocrity. much of this is due to his being a lousy defender. that is not going to change. a bounceback season means recovering from outright suckitude and back to mediocrity.

Perhaps you don't understand how Efficiency works. Per 100 possessions they calculate how many points a player produces or gives up. For Jose's career he is a PLUS player in terms of his production.

        ORtg	DRtg
2012-13  126	111
2013-14  120	112
2014-15  103	113
Career   118	112

Jose's Win Share 48

2011-12 .136
2012-13 .165
2013-14 .122
2014-15 .033

Last year was the rare time when he was under water. He has not been a mediocre player for his career as you inaccurately stated.

"In a later chapter of Basketball on Paper, Oliver emphasized that Offensive Ratings shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. Introducing a concept he called "Skill Curves", he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role."

calderon's usage for his career is less than 18% so his offensive rating is overstated.

"Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute."

this needs no further elaboration. take a look at this instead:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

That's all great stuff but in the end I still don't see you providing much evidence that Jose is mediocre. His WS/48 has been above average and he's posted some solid shooting efficiencies and low turnovers over his career. He's had a career TS% of 57.5. He's not going to be less efficient at scoring the ball just because he takes more shots. He's not a ball dominant PG so of course his Usage will be low. That's actually a good thing in this offense. We want the ball moving and when Jose does have the ball we want efficient offense and not pounding the ball or selfish ball. Jose is a very capable guard at setting up his teammates and creating efficient scoring opportunities. He's not a DRose or John Wall type, but that doesn't make him mediocre in a team concept.

his TS% is quite good that is true. his assist to usage ratio has also been excellent. but his defense has been terrible and he does not get to the line. so i am pointing out his plusses and minuses.

you must ask yourself why has he not had more success in his career, especially in the playoffs. is it the "law of melo" ie there are always better teams with better players he has had to face and he never had the opportunity to play with really good players?

He's not a star player that you'd expect to carry the action. The Spurs are a tough team to look good against and Jose was able to do his job as expected given the competition. His team's didn't lose because of him. He's a cog in the machine and not the main Gear. Jose was actually good in that Dallas playoff series with the Spurs.

Season	Age  Tm	 G  GS  MP   FG  FGA  FG%  3P  3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P%  eFG%  FT   FTA  FT%  ORB  DRB  TRB  AST  STL  BLK  TOV  PF  PTS
2006-07	25   TOR 6  1	24.3 5.8 11.5 .507 0.5 2.0  .250 5.3 9.5  .561 .529  0.8  1.0  .833 0.3  1.3  1.7  5.3  0.8  0.0  2.5  2.0 13.0
2007-08	26   TOR 5  0	24.0 4.4 10.0 .440 2.0 4.2  .476 2.4 5.8  .414 .540  1.0  1.0 1.000 0.8  2.8  3.6  7.0  0.2  0.0  1.2  3.0 11.8
2013-14	32   DAL 7  7	27.3 4.3  9.3 .462 1.6 3.3  .478 2.7 6.0  .452 .546  0.1  0.1 1.000 0.3  1.0  1.3  4.4	0.1  0.0  1.0  2.3 10.3

WaltLongmire wrote:Why not wait and see if the guy is actually in f'n shape before even thinking about what he can give you on the court?

Anyone think that the writer of the SI article has been hanging out with him in Spain watching him train?

Can't say that I trust Calderon's work ethic. Last year he came into training camp out of shape and things only got worse from there.

He does not seem like the kind of player who ever did serious weight training in the off-season. Lets see if he comes to camp this year with a newly sculpted body without any injuries, old or new.

Pay attention to the news coming out of training camp. As soon as you hear that he is not going full speed because he is still recovering from his achilles, or that he is sitting down this or that day because of hamstring/quad/or groin issues, or any pulled muscles for that matter, it is time to cut ties with the guy.

At his age he has to work twice as hard to complete effectively at PG. Hopefully he has some pride and comes in ready to play from day one, but this is not a guy I'd be willing to wait on- I'd rather play Gallo and eventually work Grant into the starting rotation.

that is the way i see things as well.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/28/jose-calderon-kyle-singler-zach-lavine-knicks-thunder-wolves-nba-free-agency

Jose Calderon, Knicks

Calderon's best basketball may be behind him, but I'm not quite ready to write off one of the league's most precise shooters and facilitators. Everything went wrong for Calderon last season: The learning curve of the triangle offense was a struggle for some teammates; Carmelo Anthony's injuries robbed the Knicks of their only star; a general lack of talent put New York at a nightly disadvantage; and most relevant of all, Calderon was bothered (and eventually sidelined) by an Achilles injury that compromised his season.

Each of those factors will be addressed in some fashion for the coming season, beginning with Calderon's health. For a player of Calderon's age (he'll turn 34 in September) to battle through a serious injury is never heartening for his future prospects. Yet Calderon expects to be fully healthy for the start of training camp, which should be good enough for a player who has never relied on athletic explosion. An injured Achilles hindered Calderon in subtler ways—not necessarily limiting his ability to get the shots he wanted, but nagging subtly on his lift and accompanying every jumper with a sharp pain.

It came as little surprise, then, that so many of Calderon's pull-up jumpers out of the pick-and-roll and spot-up threes from the week side would come up short. His shooting efficiency plummeted in both regards, robbing Calderon of one of the particular qualities that made him a perfect fit for the triangle. This year should be different. A healthier Calderon stands to benefit greatly from New York's partial rebuild and further acclimation to a motion system. Anthony and Arron Afflalo will be spoon-fed jump-shooting opportunities by Calderon's passing. Robin Lopez and Kristaps Porzingis will have a sharp, experienced pick-and-roll partner who doesn't need to dribble penetrate to create openings for others.

A healthy Calderon makes the Knicks better—not so much so that they might make the playoffs, but enough for his presence and influence to be notable all the same.

i said this the other day in another thread. Calderon returning to the player he was in Dallas (2 seasons ago he played/started 81 games, 11 pts/5 ast/1 turnover while shooting 45% from 3) will likely decide if this team has the potential to make the playoffs or not.

amazing how so many writers constantly gloss over defense. he is a 34 year old defensive sieve and as such is much closer to a zero-sum player even when healthy. come on si you're better than that!

That can't be right though. His efficiency is off the charts offensively. His TS had been very good, doesn't turn the ball over go much, his Ast% at times doubled his USG. He didn't shoot as good as he normally does last season so he became more of a liability. But if healthy and shooting to his standards should all this efficiency make him overall a positive contributor. Not to mention he is supposed to be a high character guy who you love to have in your locker room.

Well I sure hope that guy turns up this season

I actually meant for this to be a question as I'm not an advanced stats guru.

last year aside Jose is a good advanced stats guy, so saying he's a zero sum player is has no basis in reality.

This some of the last basketball Jose played before joining the Knicks last year: Actually take a look at this... people here have no clue this is a good player. Not great... he's got his limitations but he's good.

When your making Sam Dalembert look like a baller you know how to play

I remember arguing with people about Jose last year. As with everything bad that happened last year it allows the guys against Jose to keep up this false narrative that he's a horrible player. He's not a horrible player. He may have limitations but when you have a healthy Jose and a decent team he's a good PG to have on your roster.

This year we hope to have a healthy Jose and that will make things easier for Jerian and Galloway, if Jose is able to play like he normally does. The same goes for Melo. He's not this terrible team killing player that people try to make him out to be. We just need these guys to be healthy. Hopefully with a better roster we can keep these guys healthy this year. They shouldn't have to push so hard that they break.

at his best he is mediocre, not a difference maker. his career is one characterized by mediocrity. much of this is due to his being a lousy defender. that is not going to change. a bounceback season means recovering from outright suckitude and back to mediocrity.

Perhaps you don't understand how Efficiency works. Per 100 possessions they calculate how many points a player produces or gives up. For Jose's career he is a PLUS player in terms of his production.

        ORtg	DRtg
2012-13  126	111
2013-14  120	112
2014-15  103	113
Career   118	112

Jose's Win Share 48

2011-12 .136
2012-13 .165
2013-14 .122
2014-15 .033

Last year was the rare time when he was under water. He has not been a mediocre player for his career as you inaccurately stated.

"In a later chapter of Basketball on Paper, Oliver emphasized that Offensive Ratings shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. Introducing a concept he called "Skill Curves", he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role."

calderon's usage for his career is less than 18% so his offensive rating is overstated.

"Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute."

this needs no further elaboration. take a look at this instead:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

That's all great stuff but in the end I still don't see you providing much evidence that Jose is mediocre. His WS/48 has been above average and he's posted some solid shooting efficiencies and low turnovers over his career. He's had a career TS% of 57.5. He's not going to be less efficient at scoring the ball just because he takes more shots. He's not a ball dominant PG so of course his Usage will be low. That's actually a good thing in this offense. We want the ball moving and when Jose does have the ball we want efficient offense and not pounding the ball or selfish ball. Jose is a very capable guard at setting up his teammates and creating efficient scoring opportunities. He's not a DRose or John Wall type, but that doesn't make him mediocre in a team concept.

his TS% is quite good that is true. his assist to usage ratio has also been excellent. but his defense has been terrible and he does not get to the line. so i am pointing out his plusses and minuses.

you must ask yourself why has he not had more success in his career, especially in the playoffs. is it the "law of melo" ie there are always better teams with better players he has had to face and he never had the opportunity to play with really good players?

IMO if he played on Dallas in his prime, or played under MDA he would be viewed differently. Those are situations that meshed with what he brought to the table.

Side question, who is the better player Jose Calderon or Jeremy Lin?

Reality Calderon is whole 'nother beast. Washed up on the wrong side of 33 and ready to be put out to pasture behind the shed.

Starts by default due to $15mill guaranteed and keeps the seat warm for Jerian while he gets used to the NBA game.

dk7th wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/28/jose-calderon-kyle-singler-zach-lavine-knicks-thunder-wolves-nba-free-agency

Jose Calderon, Knicks

Calderon's best basketball may be behind him, but I'm not quite ready to write off one of the league's most precise shooters and facilitators. Everything went wrong for Calderon last season: The learning curve of the triangle offense was a struggle for some teammates; Carmelo Anthony's injuries robbed the Knicks of their only star; a general lack of talent put New York at a nightly disadvantage; and most relevant of all, Calderon was bothered (and eventually sidelined) by an Achilles injury that compromised his season.

Each of those factors will be addressed in some fashion for the coming season, beginning with Calderon's health. For a player of Calderon's age (he'll turn 34 in September) to battle through a serious injury is never heartening for his future prospects. Yet Calderon expects to be fully healthy for the start of training camp, which should be good enough for a player who has never relied on athletic explosion. An injured Achilles hindered Calderon in subtler ways—not necessarily limiting his ability to get the shots he wanted, but nagging subtly on his lift and accompanying every jumper with a sharp pain.

It came as little surprise, then, that so many of Calderon's pull-up jumpers out of the pick-and-roll and spot-up threes from the week side would come up short. His shooting efficiency plummeted in both regards, robbing Calderon of one of the particular qualities that made him a perfect fit for the triangle. This year should be different. A healthier Calderon stands to benefit greatly from New York's partial rebuild and further acclimation to a motion system. Anthony and Arron Afflalo will be spoon-fed jump-shooting opportunities by Calderon's passing. Robin Lopez and Kristaps Porzingis will have a sharp, experienced pick-and-roll partner who doesn't need to dribble penetrate to create openings for others.

A healthy Calderon makes the Knicks better—not so much so that they might make the playoffs, but enough for his presence and influence to be notable all the same.

i said this the other day in another thread. Calderon returning to the player he was in Dallas (2 seasons ago he played/started 81 games, 11 pts/5 ast/1 turnover while shooting 45% from 3) will likely decide if this team has the potential to make the playoffs or not.

amazing how so many writers constantly gloss over defense. he is a 34 year old defensive sieve and as such is much closer to a zero-sum player even when healthy. come on si you're better than that!

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/28/jose-calderon-kyle-singler-zach-lavine-knicks-thunder-wolves-nba-free-agency

Jose Calderon, Knicks

Calderon's best basketball may be behind him, but I'm not quite ready to write off one of the league's most precise shooters and facilitators. Everything went wrong for Calderon last season: The learning curve of the triangle offense was a struggle for some teammates; Carmelo Anthony's injuries robbed the Knicks of their only star; a general lack of talent put New York at a nightly disadvantage; and most relevant of all, Calderon was bothered (and eventually sidelined) by an Achilles injury that compromised his season.

Each of those factors will be addressed in some fashion for the coming season, beginning with Calderon's health. For a player of Calderon's age (he'll turn 34 in September) to battle through a serious injury is never heartening for his future prospects. Yet Calderon expects to be fully healthy for the start of training camp, which should be good enough for a player who has never relied on athletic explosion. An injured Achilles hindered Calderon in subtler ways—not necessarily limiting his ability to get the shots he wanted, but nagging subtly on his lift and accompanying every jumper with a sharp pain.

It came as little surprise, then, that so many of Calderon's pull-up jumpers out of the pick-and-roll and spot-up threes from the week side would come up short. His shooting efficiency plummeted in both regards, robbing Calderon of one of the particular qualities that made him a perfect fit for the triangle. This year should be different. A healthier Calderon stands to benefit greatly from New York's partial rebuild and further acclimation to a motion system. Anthony and Arron Afflalo will be spoon-fed jump-shooting opportunities by Calderon's passing. Robin Lopez and Kristaps Porzingis will have a sharp, experienced pick-and-roll partner who doesn't need to dribble penetrate to create openings for others.

A healthy Calderon makes the Knicks better—not so much so that they might make the playoffs, but enough for his presence and influence to be notable all the same.

i said this the other day in another thread. Calderon returning to the player he was in Dallas (2 seasons ago he played/started 81 games, 11 pts/5 ast/1 turnover while shooting 45% from 3) will likely decide if this team has the potential to make the playoffs or not.

amazing how so many writers constantly gloss over defense. he is a 34 year old defensive sieve and as such is much closer to a zero-sum player even when healthy. come on si you're better than that!

That can't be right though. His efficiency is off the charts offensively. His TS had been very good, doesn't turn the ball over go much, his Ast% at times doubled his USG. He didn't shoot as good as he normally does last season so he became more of a liability. But if healthy and shooting to his standards should all this efficiency make him overall a positive contributor. Not to mention he is supposed to be a high character guy who you love to have in your locker room.

Well I sure hope that guy turns up this season

I actually meant for this to be a question as I'm not an advanced stats guru.

last year aside Jose is a good advanced stats guy, so saying he's a zero sum player is has no basis in reality.

This some of the last basketball Jose played before joining the Knicks last year: Actually take a look at this... people here have no clue this is a good player. Not great... he's got his limitations but he's good.

When your making Sam Dalembert look like a baller you know how to play

I remember arguing with people about Jose last year. As with everything bad that happened last year it allows the guys against Jose to keep up this false narrative that he's a horrible player. He's not a horrible player. He may have limitations but when you have a healthy Jose and a decent team he's a good PG to have on your roster.

This year we hope to have a healthy Jose and that will make things easier for Jerian and Galloway, if Jose is able to play like he normally does. The same goes for Melo. He's not this terrible team killing player that people try to make him out to be. We just need these guys to be healthy. Hopefully with a better roster we can keep these guys healthy this year. They shouldn't have to push so hard that they break.

at his best he is mediocre, not a difference maker. his career is one characterized by mediocrity. much of this is due to his being a lousy defender. that is not going to change. a bounceback season means recovering from outright suckitude and back to mediocrity.

Perhaps you don't understand how Efficiency works. Per 100 possessions they calculate how many points a player produces or gives up. For Jose's career he is a PLUS player in terms of his production.

        ORtg	DRtg
2012-13  126	111
2013-14  120	112
2014-15  103	113
Career   118	112

Jose's Win Share 48

2011-12 .136
2012-13 .165
2013-14 .122
2014-15 .033

Last year was the rare time when he was under water. He has not been a mediocre player for his career as you inaccurately stated.

But Calderon is going to better this season. I think he is at the age where health is somewhat a concern, but I think we can rely on him for fewer minutes with Grant and Galloway on board.

I see two lineups with this Knicks squad right now:

Calderon
Afflalo
Melo
Porzingis or DWilliams
Lopez

Grant
Galloway
Early/Thomas
DWilliams or Porzingis
O'Quinn

I think the Calderon/Melo lineup will play slower, more meticulous half-court ball that resembles the traditional triangle and the Grant/Galloway lineup will get out and run a little more and create more turnovers and stuff like that.

Anyway, I'm rooting for Calderon to have a bounce back season. I really don't understand the impulse so many have to see their pessimism proved right.

Rookie wrote:Statistically speaking, I think the list of 34 year old PG's who bounce back is short to non existent. It is the other way around where their production pretty much falls off a cliff. There might be a few exceptions

Jason Kidd won a championship at age 36, made the all-star game at 35
Derek Harper led the Knicks to the Finals at age 34
John Stockton made the ASG at age 37, led the league in assists at 34
Steve Nash took the Suns to the WCF at age 34, led the NBA in assists at 35

I'm sure there are others - but you see that list is primarily orchestrators who didn't need their athleticism to succeed. I think it's fair to say Calderon can play well - but I do like the idea of platooning him with Grant and keeping Jose fresh.

crzymdups wrote:

Rookie wrote:Statistically speaking, I think the list of 34 year old PG's who bounce back is short to non existent. It is the other way around where their production pretty much falls off a cliff. There might be a few exceptions

Jason Kidd won a championship at age 36, made the all-star game at 35
Derek Harper led the Knicks to the Finals at age 34
John Stockton made the ASG at age 37, led the league in assists at 34
Steve Nash took the Suns to the WCF at age 34, led the NBA in assists at 35

I'm sure there are others - but you see that list is primarily orchestrators who didn't need their athleticism to succeed. I think it's fair to say Calderon can play well - but I do like the idea of platooning him with Grant and keeping Jose fresh.

I see your point, but it is not the norm and 3 of the 4 guys on your list are future H.O.F's so Caulderon really doesn't belong there

Rookie wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Rookie wrote:Statistically speaking, I think the list of 34 year old PG's who bounce back is short to non existent. It is the other way around where their production pretty much falls off a cliff. There might be a few exceptions

Jason Kidd won a championship at age 36, made the all-star game at 35
Derek Harper led the Knicks to the Finals at age 34
John Stockton made the ASG at age 37, led the league in assists at 34
Steve Nash took the Suns to the WCF at age 34, led the NBA in assists at 35

I'm sure there are others - but you see that list is primarily orchestrators who didn't need their athleticism to succeed. I think it's fair to say Calderon can play well - but I do like the idea of platooning him with Grant and keeping Jose fresh.

I see your point, but it is not the norm and 3 of the 4 guys on your list are future H.O.F's so Caulderon really doesn't belong there