CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nychamp wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:1. New York - Carmelo
2. Toronto - Demarre Carroll
3. Brooklyn - Joe Johnson
4. Boston - Jae Crowder
5. Philly - whoever they start at SF

Fact or fiction - Carmelo is the best player in the Atlantic division. i say fact. something to keep in mind when you read the Knicks 25-win projections.

he is much closer to a zero-sum player when you consider he is an abomination on defense.

Calling Melo an "abomination" on defense is not reasonable or fair. He is often a lazy defender, and frequently disappoints, especially given that you see him play active and capable defense on occasion. He has the skill but doesn't bring it with any consistency.

David Lee and Tim Hardaway jr could fairly be characterized as "abominations". Clueless, incapable and unmotivated on the defensive end.

he defensive footwork is awful-- he plays defense with his arms and hands, and he has terrible court awareness, ie clueless. he is never in a crouching position and as a result his center of gravity is too high, making him off balance and therefore he often gets beat. i think that pretty much covers his technique, and we don't need to address his lack of conditioning, which worsens as the season progresses, or his lack of heart.

when was the last time he made a clutch defensive play?

He has won player of the month in April twice as a knick. How can that happen if his conditioning worsens during the season?

lets see how much you really know by addressing the points i made instead of changing the focus to awards and whatnot. any other type of response just cements the impression of all hat no cattle.

Screw that. How can you explain a guy stepping up in April to get his team into the playoffs or to get them a better seeding when all of his teammates are hurt and he wins player of the month. You post the same stuff all the time. How does a guy up his play in April if his conditioning declines as the season goes on as you claim. Back up your claim.

translation: "i don't own any cattle but please look at my hat."

So we agree that Anthony's conditioning doesn't decline as the season goes on and that he out performed his peers in the final month of an 82 game season two consecutive years. If you disagree please provide the evidence to back your claim.

i believe the ball remains in your court. here's the breakdown thus far:

1)i made assertions about his terrible defensive technique and i concluded, clearly as an afterthought, that we don't need to address his lack of conditioning as this is not the crux of my point
2)you ask, nonetheless, how can he lack conditioning if he is winning player of the month-- which, again, is clearly not the crux of my point... but you knew that didn't you... unless you are that stupid
3)i again ask you to address my assertions about his defense and then
4)you say back up your claim about his lack of conditioning, trying to reverse the order of things... if you're not that stupid then maybe you are just a bitch playing games again for the umpteenth time. hilarious

if you are serious about having a dialogue then these tactics of yours have got to go.

Look. This isn't complicated. You said this,

we don't need to address his lack of conditioning, which worsens as the season progresses, or his lack of heart.

You can't bury it. Please explain how a guy wins player of the month in April for two consecutive years if his conditioning worsens as the season goes on.

good luck getting a straight answer

I'm very critical of Melo, but it's not his defense that bothers me. It's not his isolation play either. Plenty of guys isolate. It's his constant settling for jumpshots after standing there for 8 seconds. That's why he's a low efficiency player. He doesn't attack and he doesn't pass. There's no drive and kick from him, he doesn't work for position in the post where maybe he could draw a double and if he does get doubled he gets tunnel vision and doesn't move the ball. The triangle gave him more quick catch and shoot opportunities which is good. When he's not shooting lights out I'm just not convinced he's a great player.

ChuckBuck wrote:Another troubling faux pas for the "Melo defenders" is that for all his accolades, his player of the month or all star appearances or scoring title etc...Dude hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Forget about defense, guy can't play D for shyt. Hasn't even come close to sniffing an ALL NBA Defensive team. Forget that for now, Melo hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM one time in his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

If he has, it's not showing in Basketball Reference. All the great ones have made at least 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Highest Melo has gotten is 2nd team in the mirage 54 win season in 2012-2013.

I think we should trade Melo for the benefit of the team going 4ward but this thing that melo is not a good player is nuts. Its like anything else the Knicks do--we paid way too much at his trade--or rather he forced us into a position that cost too much and we paid it. Subsequently we never had enough extra to build a team with him. Partly his fault and partly the Knicks. Fans are not stupid already know this. But if we look past the trade we still have a really good player-- hes been good here--we just didnt put 2+2 together at the trade that the existing parts WITH melo never had a chance to get ti done as a whole. Thats been a problem for the Knicks for many years. They think 1 player can change th e tide and they havent put much value into team building until now. I think Phil Jackson was naming guys who were great NBA players but NOT winners. I always say what I think--I talk straight and IF Melo was part of a good group that had leadership diversity and talent he could easily be part of a championship team. Really looking 4ward we have 0 chance of that happening here. So if we can add to the team building and get some good young established rising players who are 25 and under and a good pick or 2. Melo's a good player but I think his value here is going to be wasted.

mreinman wrote:

tj23 wrote:I don't understand the point of the OP. It proves absolutely nothing.

I'm very critical of Melo, but it's not his defense that bothers me. It's not his isolation play either. Plenty of guys isolate. It's his constant settling for jumpshots after standing there for 8 seconds. That's why he's a low efficiency player. He doesn't attack and he doesn't pass. There's no drive and kick from him, he doesn't work for position in the post where maybe he could draw a double and if he does get doubled he gets tunnel vision and doesn't move the ball. The triangle gave him more quick catch and shoot opportunities which is good. When he's not shooting lights out I'm just not convinced he's a great player.

pretty much.

when he is not shooting well, not only does he not find other ways to help the team win, he almost guarantees a loss.

This is a fair point. However, when looking at a player's production, people neglect those around him. At some point in Denver Melo had to have an off night, but they still won and he was always on the floor so he must have been doing something. The Knicks biggest problem was roster construction the parts made no sense and they had a large portion of the cap allocated to a guy not playing (Amare). Even LeBron, who is the beet player in the league hands down right now couldn't help Shump and JR. We were asking JR to be our 2nd best player which was ridiculous. Biggest criticism of Melo that is unfair is he didn't make guys better. That is so overrated. Look at what happened with Shump and JR when relied upon in Cleveland with a guy who makes everybody better?

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Another troubling faux pas for the "Melo defenders" is that for all his accolades, his player of the month or all star appearances or scoring title etc...Dude hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Forget about defense, guy can't play D for shyt. Hasn't even come close to sniffing an ALL NBA Defensive team. Forget that for now, Melo hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM one time in his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

If he has, it's not showing in Basketball Reference. All the great ones have made at least 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Highest Melo has gotten is 2nd team in the mirage 54 win season in 2012-2013.

I think we should trade Melo for the benefit of the team going 4ward but this thing that melo is not a good player is nuts. Its like anything else the Knicks do--we paid way too much at his trade--or rather he forced us into a position that cost too much and we paid it. Subsequently we never had enough extra to build a team with him. Partly his fault and partly the Knicks. Fans are not stupid already know this. But if we look past the trade we still have a really good player-- hes been good here--we just didnt put 2+2 together at the trade that the existing parts WITH melo never had a chance to get ti done as a whole. Thats been a problem for the Knicks for many years. They think 1 player can change th e tide and they havent put much value into team building until now. I think Phil Jackson was naming guys who were great NBA players but NOT winners. I always say what I think--I talk straight and IF Melo was part of a good group that had leadership diversity and talent he could easily be part of a championship team. Really looking 4ward we have 0 chance of that happening here. So if we can add to the team building and get some good young established rising players who are 25 and under and a good pick or 2. Melo's a good player but I think his value here is going to be wasted.

Problem BRIGGS is that Melo cannot even be the "Paul Pierce" type player. Surround him with enough talent and role players and excel in that role, but in 12 years he couldn't even be that.

Paul Pierce excelled once surrounded by decent talent and role players, made it to 2 NBA Finals, winning one and the Finals MVP.

The excuse with Melo is he's never surrounded by talent. Dude had AI, Nene, Camby, Chauncey, KMart, Birdman etc. On the Knicks for their 54 win season, he had a team tailor made to hide is deficiencies and provided enough veteran leadership to cover his lack of. He had Tyson Chandler, JKidd, Camby, Kurt Thomas, Pablo, Felton on a diet, JR on his playing for a contract best behavior, Rasheed, Shump, wine soaked Amare, Copesanity.

Melo's been given every opportunity to be the "Paul Pierce" or "Dirk" on a team surrounded by great role players...dude doesn't get it and will never get it.

Lol! Counting no show Amare. Illness inthe playoffs. Hahahaha. Wow

All you need to know about your golden boy:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Another troubling faux pas for the "Melo defenders" is that for all his accolades, his player of the month or all star appearances or scoring title etc...Dude hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Forget about defense, guy can't play D for shyt. Hasn't even come close to sniffing an ALL NBA Defensive team. Forget that for now, Melo hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM one time in his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

If he has, it's not showing in Basketball Reference. All the great ones have made at least 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Highest Melo has gotten is 2nd team in the mirage 54 win season in 2012-2013.

I think we should trade Melo for the benefit of the team going 4ward but this thing that melo is not a good player is nuts. Its like anything else the Knicks do--we paid way too much at his trade--or rather he forced us into a position that cost too much and we paid it. Subsequently we never had enough extra to build a team with him. Partly his fault and partly the Knicks. Fans are not stupid already know this. But if we look past the trade we still have a really good player-- hes been good here--we just didnt put 2+2 together at the trade that the existing parts WITH melo never had a chance to get ti done as a whole. Thats been a problem for the Knicks for many years. They think 1 player can change th e tide and they havent put much value into team building until now. I think Phil Jackson was naming guys who were great NBA players but NOT winners. I always say what I think--I talk straight and IF Melo was part of a good group that had leadership diversity and talent he could easily be part of a championship team. Really looking 4ward we have 0 chance of that happening here. So if we can add to the team building and get some good young established rising players who are 25 and under and a good pick or 2. Melo's a good player but I think his value here is going to be wasted.

Problem BRIGGS is that Melo cannot even be the "Paul Pierce" type player. Surround him with enough talent and role players and excel in that role, but in 12 years he couldn't even be that.

Paul Pierce excelled once surrounded by decent talent and role players, made it to 2 NBA Finals, winning one and the Finals MVP.

The excuse with Melo is he's never surrounded by talent. Dude had AI, Nene, Camby, Chauncey, KMart, Birdman etc. On the Knicks for their 54 win season, he had a team tailor made to hide is deficiencies and provided enough veteran leadership to cover his lack of. He had Tyson Chandler, JKidd, Camby, Kurt Thomas, Pablo, Felton on a diet, JR on his playing for a contract best behavior, Rasheed, Shump, wine soaked Amare, Copesanity.

Melo's been given every opportunity to be the "Paul Pierce" or "Dirk" on a team surrounded by great role players...dude doesn't get it and will never get it.

Lol! Counting no show Amare. Illness inthe playoffs. Hahahaha. Wow

All you need to know about your golden boy:

There was 5 min left in the 4th. It was a great defensive play. Wanna show the 25 Hibbert scored or his 20 rebs on the DOYP? How bout that no call on the punch in the face, which I believe was the same quarter? Do u even know that basketball is a team sport?

MS wrote:Listen. The Knicks didn't have to trade for Melo when they did, we all understand that. Did he want his money sure. But, Amare Stoudamire was taking up 1/3 of our cap room, missing most of the season year after year and injuring himself dunking in warm ups and punching fire extinguishers and continually got a pass.

Is he a little selfish at times? Since he has been here we haven't really had a point guard, the shooting guard has been inconsistent, power foward generally below average what do you expect the guy to do. How many superstars can get their team into the playoffs with no help? Lebron is about the only guy in the NBA. Let's stop comparing them.

Melos is putting up 25.5pts 6.5rbs 3ass on 45% from the field in his time here. He puts tremendous pressure on the defense.

Is it his fault our last ******* GM signed Novak on a 4 year deal and then flipped him with a draft pick for a guy that was getting bought out? Or that the same gm used a provision designed for Amare Stoudamire on a player we picked up an option on only to buy him out, to trade for a player that made no sense next to Amare.

Melo is all we have. This team makes careless trades and is literally one of the few teams that doesn't know how to protect a lottery pick in trade.

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:1. New York - Carmelo
2. Toronto - Demarre Carroll
3. Brooklyn - Joe Johnson
4. Boston - Jae Crowder
5. Philly - whoever they start at SF

Fact or fiction - Carmelo is the best player in the Atlantic division. i say fact. something to keep in mind when you read the Knicks 25-win projections.

What does this even mean for win projections? Demarcus Cousins has been the best all around center in the Pacific division for a few years already and they won 29 games only.

Very poor argument. dk7th's absolutely right, Melo is a zero sum player. Doesn't bring it when you need it.

This.

Blunt and brutally yet beautifully honest

Too bad I wasn't able to get the pic of the no call later in that same quarter on Hibbert when he punched Melo in the face on a dunk attempt. Woulda been a possible flagrant for some other players in the league. The selective memory in here and hatred for the team's best player is ridiculous.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:1. New York - Carmelo
2. Toronto - Demarre Carroll
3. Brooklyn - Joe Johnson
4. Boston - Jae Crowder
5. Philly - whoever they start at SF

Fact or fiction - Carmelo is the best player in the Atlantic division. i say fact. something to keep in mind when you read the Knicks 25-win projections.

What does this even mean for win projections? Demarcus Cousins has been the best all around center in the Pacific division for a few years already and they won 29 games only.

Very poor argument. dk7th's absolutely right, Melo is a zero sum player. Doesn't bring it when you need it.

This.

Blunt and brutally yet beautifully honest

Too bad I wasn't able to get the pic of the no call later in that same quarter on Hibbert when he punched Melo in the face on a dunk attempt. Woulda been a possible flagrant for some other players in the league. The selective memory in here and hatred for the team's best player is ridiculous.

Selective excuse making.

Just call a spade a spade, it'll help your Knick fandom in the long run.

Root for KP and Jerian instead to grow into true stars, not this fake one way playing 3rd tier star.

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Another troubling faux pas for the "Melo defenders" is that for all his accolades, his player of the month or all star appearances or scoring title etc...Dude hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Forget about defense, guy can't play D for shyt. Hasn't even come close to sniffing an ALL NBA Defensive team. Forget that for now, Melo hasn't made 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM one time in his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

If he has, it's not showing in Basketball Reference. All the great ones have made at least 1 ALL NBA FIRST TEAM. Highest Melo has gotten is 2nd team in the mirage 54 win season in 2012-2013.

I think we should trade Melo for the benefit of the team going 4ward but this thing that melo is not a good player is nuts. Its like anything else the Knicks do--we paid way too much at his trade--or rather he forced us into a position that cost too much and we paid it. Subsequently we never had enough extra to build a team with him. Partly his fault and partly the Knicks. Fans are not stupid already know this. But if we look past the trade we still have a really good player-- hes been good here--we just didnt put 2+2 together at the trade that the existing parts WITH melo never had a chance to get ti done as a whole. Thats been a problem for the Knicks for many years. They think 1 player can change th e tide and they havent put much value into team building until now. I think Phil Jackson was naming guys who were great NBA players but NOT winners. I always say what I think--I talk straight and IF Melo was part of a good group that had leadership diversity and talent he could easily be part of a championship team. Really looking 4ward we have 0 chance of that happening here. So if we can add to the team building and get some good young established rising players who are 25 and under and a good pick or 2. Melo's a good player but I think his value here is going to be wasted.

Problem BRIGGS is that Melo cannot even be the "Paul Pierce" type player. Surround him with enough talent and role players and excel in that role, but in 12 years he couldn't even be that.

Paul Pierce excelled once surrounded by decent talent and role players, made it to 2 NBA Finals, winning one and the Finals MVP.

The excuse with Melo is he's never surrounded by talent. Dude had AI, Nene, Camby, Chauncey, KMart, Birdman etc. On the Knicks for their 54 win season, he had a team tailor made to hide is deficiencies and provided enough veteran leadership to cover his lack of. He had Tyson Chandler, JKidd, Camby, Kurt Thomas, Pablo, Felton on a diet, JR on his playing for a contract best behavior, Rasheed, Shump, wine soaked Amare, Copesanity.

Melo's been given every opportunity to be the "Paul Pierce" or "Dirk" on a team surrounded by great role players...dude doesn't get it and will never get it.

Lol! Counting no show Amare. Illness inthe playoffs. Hahahaha. Wow

All you need to know about your golden boy:

There was 5 min left in the 4th. It was a great defensive play. Wanna show the 25 Hibbert scored or his 20 rebs on the DOYP? How bout that no call on the punch in the face, which I believe was the same quarter? Do u even know that basketball is a team sport?

Great players make great plays when the chips are down. Knicks down 3-2 in the series, up 2 points with 5 minutes in the 4th quarter, and your star gets stonewalled.

Of course Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Pierce, Lebron, Curry all would make that same excuse right?

Stop defending him man lol! Guy choked, just put Exhibit A, B, C, and D right in your grill. Own it, accept it, and move on.

Root for the Yoots like Kristaps and Grant. Maybe they'll fare better in their career than this loser bum lowlife choke artist.

The guy chocked??? because Hibbert blocked his shot?. You are f'n nuts and don't know sheet about basketball. All you crazy anti melo fans are nuts. Is he the best ever? No, but he is a damn good player.