earthmansurfer wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I definitely see star potential, but I need more then a few summer league games to make a true evaluation. Without melo, KP's life on the court becomes that much difficult.

Why you guys are so hell bent on trading melo, is just short sighted.

I don't think it is quite like that. Melo is 31 years old! We have a team that is not going to compete for a chip this year. If we don't strike it big in 2016 FA then I just can't see Melo staying. I don't think for either party that it would be in their best interests.

Melo is not leaving NY to chase no ring, clearly he had the opportunity last yr, 2 rys down the line doesn't change that.

I have been saying this since his 2nd yr in NY, (he won't win a championship until he's a 2nd or 3rd option) even if we did land a top FA like LMA or Monroe, theres no way of confirming that they will mesh, and all will be well. I believe him when he say he's on board and is here fore the long haul.

knicks1248 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I definitely see star potential, but I need more then a few summer league games to make a true evaluation. Without melo, KP's life on the court becomes that much difficult.

Why you guys are so hell bent on trading melo, is just short sighted.

I don't think it is quite like that. Melo is 31 years old! We have a team that is not going to compete for a chip this year. If we don't strike it big in 2016 FA then I just can't see Melo staying. I don't think for either party that it would be in their best interests.

Melo is not leaving NY to chase no ring, clearly he had the opportunity last yr, 2 rys down the line doesn't change that.

I have been saying this since his 2nd yr in NY, (he won't win a championship until he's a 2nd or 3rd option) even if we did land a top FA like LMA or Monroe, theres no way of confirming that they will mesh, and all will be well. I believe him when he say he's on board and is here fore the long haul.

I agree that Melo isn't leaving. I think he really loves it here in NY. Besides once he starts playing with KP and Jerian I think he'll realize the talent they have and stay for their full development. He's not going to have to leave in order to compete. It's really all up to him as to how successful this can be here in NY. If he decides to take the young guys under his wing and become a positive influence and fully buy in then I see no real problem. Despite the common belief Melo does have a lot of things he can teach a Rookie about handling the NBA life and sharing his experience with the kids to speed up their maturation process. It's all up to him.

I think not only should we be excited about KP but Jerian as well. He's a HUGE piece of the puzzle here. We haven't had a guard of his quality and youth in a LONG time. He's going to be the linchpin to helping this group come together on the floor. He has all the tools to run the team at the pace we need.

gunsnewing wrote:I just hope Phil gets more for Melo than he did for Tyson, JR & Shumpert

Captain obvious to the rescue!!!!

Of course we want more!!! We want unproteted lottery picks and emerging stars, and if not, EuroStash gods in the waiting!!!

We need the ability to obtain a 2nd allstar type player in his prime either by draft, or players that can accumulate for a trade.
Not pie in the sky Durant starphuch dreaming.

The thing is the closer you get to contention the older players who have their money might come as they did to Miami, Cleveland and now to SA.

newyorknewyork wrote:He is more of a PF/C then a pure center. Hopefully is able to be spoken in the same sentence and grow in the mold of a KG, Dirk, Gasol, Davis.

If we played heavy heavy PNR his offensive game is tailor made for that with his mobility, length, stroke, ability to put the ball on the floor. He just wouldn't be strong enough yet to set hard picks to clear the guard.

I was watching his highlights last night from SL. Boy does he have a soft shot around the rim--gorgeous and to long to be altered. Kind of like Pau the 4-5 is kind of what he will be--not a true 5 or a true 4 but somewhere in between.

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Regarding Melo and trading him, the best thing we could do would be to raise his value.

The general problem is the team CANNOT RAISE MELOS TRADE VALUE

The guy has a No Trade Clause. The only practical trade would be the Lakers, given it's a fit for the large market Melo desires and there's a history with Phil Jackson and that franchise and that franchise looks to acquire a "big name" for when Kobe Bryant finally burns out.

Raising someone's trade value would be like having the Red Sox and the Yankees fight over a player at the trade deadline in the past. Except in this case, said player can say - I'm only going to the Red Sox, thus removing almost all trade leverage of having the Yankees in play.

I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar. That's all the Knicks are going to get here if Melo is traded. He's not going to agree to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team. There's a good chance the Knicks will have to take a mediocre contract back as well to make the salaries match.

To drive down the price, Melo will do what many athletes do. Attack the fanbase, attack the front office, attack his team mates in the press, act like a malcontent, refuse to play even less defense than before, shotjack and never pass the ball. Basically be a sulking bitch, which Melo seems to do well.

For Zinger's sake, the Knicks better hope Melo is off the roster IF Zinger does turn into a franchise core. Fans chanting for Zinger and him getting any kind of real press buzz will only incite a low IQ selfish chucker like Melo.

What's going to amuse me the most, what will make me laugh out loud, is when Melo does get traded, that the most ardent Melo ball lickers on this forum, who try to excuse every last horse **** / team killing behavior he does, will finally turn on him and start to trash on him.

--->I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. According to you Tim Hardaway was not tradeable and the Knicks had no chance unless they gave up a future pick to get an additional 1 yet they ended up with 19 and 35. No TT the Knicks when if they trade Melo(as long as he is healthy) would command a premium. The value to the Knicks --as in the timing is when they could achieve the trade they want might be best in the offseason but I dont think its an option for them. Melos value is 80-85% of what it was. The Knicks will be able to command a pick or two and two very good young players.

I'm not agreeing that Melo will be traded in season, but Boston looks like it has all the right pieces to get one done. They have a good vet with 1yr left on his deal for salary matching purposes in David Lee 15M. They have a shopping list of young guys with talent. And they have extra 1st rd draft picks which look like they could be in the teens in next years draft.

Rookie wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Regarding Melo and trading him, the best thing we could do would be to raise his value.

The general problem is the team CANNOT RAISE MELOS TRADE VALUE

The guy has a No Trade Clause. The only practical trade would be the Lakers, given it's a fit for the large market Melo desires and there's a history with Phil Jackson and that franchise and that franchise looks to acquire a "big name" for when Kobe Bryant finally burns out.

Raising someone's trade value would be like having the Red Sox and the Yankees fight over a player at the trade deadline in the past. Except in this case, said player can say - I'm only going to the Red Sox, thus removing almost all trade leverage of having the Yankees in play.

I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar. That's all the Knicks are going to get here if Melo is traded. He's not going to agree to waive his NTC to go to a gutted team. There's a good chance the Knicks will have to take a mediocre contract back as well to make the salaries match.

To drive down the price, Melo will do what many athletes do. Attack the fanbase, attack the front office, attack his team mates in the press, act like a malcontent, refuse to play even less defense than before, shotjack and never pass the ball. Basically be a sulking bitch, which Melo seems to do well.

For Zinger's sake, the Knicks better hope Melo is off the roster IF Zinger does turn into a franchise core. Fans chanting for Zinger and him getting any kind of real press buzz will only incite a low IQ selfish chucker like Melo.

What's going to amuse me the most, what will make me laugh out loud, is when Melo does get traded, that the most ardent Melo ball lickers on this forum, who try to excuse every last horse **** / team killing behavior he does, will finally turn on him and start to trash on him.

--->I think folks have to get truly realistic here. 10 cents on the dollar. 15 cents on the dollar.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. According to you Tim Hardaway was not tradeable and the Knicks had no chance unless they gave up a future pick to get an additional 1 yet they ended up with 19 and 35. No TT the Knicks when if they trade Melo(as long as he is healthy) would command a premium. The value to the Knicks --as in the timing is when they could achieve the trade they want might be best in the offseason but I dont think its an option for them. Melos value is 80-85% of what it was. The Knicks will be able to command a pick or two and two very good young players.

I'm not agreeing that Melo will be traded in season, but Boston looks like it has all the right pieces to get one done. They have a good vet with 1yr left on his deal for salary matching purposes in David Lee 15M. They have a shopping list of young guys with talent. And they have extra 1st rd draft picks which look like they could be in the teens in next years draft.

Melo has to want to be there, ainge has to feel like Melo is a good fit, and Knicks have to be happy with what comes in return. If not they have to involve a 3rd or 4th team.
I don't see Boston as a major market for the multi cultural Melo nor is the team ready to make that next jump.

What can Melo do for GSW in the uber competitive west? Melo and Grant for Russell and Randle (plus contracts), and thats assuming Grant is excellent. Does Lakers even want a starphuch? Basically that trade might put them in playoffs ,but little more. is that good enough for melo?

Chicago, Butler for Melo. Does this make them contend with Clev??? Melo for Dragic.

Knicks1969 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:in the making. Will not happen for 2 years but he is the absolute superstar center here once his body and game fill and grow out. Thats why I kind of want Carmelo to be traded at maximum value anyway--because I dont believe we have a chance in hll to win with Cleveland in our conference. That would give Carmelo a chance with another team and we can continue to re-do the roster with hopes we can find a star guard to go along with Kristaps for the future. It will take 2-3 years for Clev to burn out so we have that time to build out for our run.

I like that the Knicks have tried to find some younger players to build with. We havent been very successful with mostly raw talent Layberdie Thansis Early Ledo etc.. but hopefully we can tweak our evaluation process a bit as well.

Oh my God! Can you all please lower the expectation already? This dude is a big, and it normally takes four full season for them to show a good grasp of the game. Fundamentally, we all can see that he has a good court awareness; but what you failed to realize is that this kid is only 200 lbs. if he adds more weight to his frame as he has been asked to do, it will slow him down and in turn will also slow his progress. Pau Gassol did not blossom until his fith year in the league, and so are many others.

Let the kid be. I am sick of reading people from the media and fans around here anointing this young kid as a superstar this early in his career. Please tell me what league he has dominated since he started playing?????

Magic dominated at all level
So did Lebron

It is true that bigs can take longer to fully develop. Still KP has enough skill that if given the kind of role Bargs and Jason Smith had he should be able to do pretty well in his 1st 3 seasons. That big man flashing to the Elbow for the jumper or setting the screen and rolling or popping. He can also face up in the Pinch Post because he can shoot or drive. He's tailor made for this role.

newyorknewyork wrote:Trading Melo all comes down to if he actually has a desire to be traded first and foremost. If he is traded then signing him was still worth it since we were able to get something for him rather then lose him for nothing.

But regardless of that the Knicks have had some of the worst guard play in the NBA over the last 2 yrs. When our guard play is able to compete with other guards on a night to night basis we will win more games and there would be less responsibility on Carmelo to be someone he isn't. When we had strong guard play we won 54 games. Every team in the playoffs had strong guard play. We can kill Carmelo all day but we won't generate wins or improve until our guard play is at a comparable level as the rest of the NBA.

WaltLongmire wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Rookie wrote:I'm hoping he has a better career then Shawn Bradley who came into the league with similar hype. KP looks like he has a stronger work ethic so you could be right Briggs. As far as a trade destination for Melo, I think if anything is going to happen it will be next summer when teams have cap room. He isn't going to approve going to a rebuild and a contender isn't going to gut the roster for him.

How could you even compare the two? Another tall and white comparison. They are nothing alike outside of that. You need to go back an watch some tape of Mr. Bradley.

Yeah...there are few similarities except for size and skin tone. Their games are completely different, and there is no comparison between the two in terms of athletic ability.

Two things, though...

Hope that KP can block shots at a similar rate;

Hope that KP can develop the hook shot that Bradley could throw at you at times. There is a clip of him playing against Shaq and he had some success with that shot, even against a guy like Shaq.

Yeah, the block rate was what crossed my mind, of course. The thing that I was most "offended" by, is that KP seems to have this burning desire to be great. Sean Bradley seemed to lack that. He had more that typical tall guy who could block shots (without any real good athleticism.)

I think once KP gets going, count on 2 blocks a game. I imagine he can do better, but regardless he is going to change the way teams play on offense. (At least he can.)

Regarding the superstar moniker. Yeah, it is too soon to say what he "will" be, but "can" be - for sure. Watching just a little bit of him and then listening to him in interviews, something just clicks there. Hard to quantify but it is there. I say he has that "IT" factor but time will tell.