newyorker4ever wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13269490/the-phil-files-part-4-trade-shook-new-york

What stood out to me...

Shumpert was another problem. "I like Shump," says Jackson, "but he has a very loud, big personality. It was difficult for most of the other guys to deal with, especially if things don't go well for him or the team."

Guns

Still, [Derek Fisher] told me that Tim's defense was actually improving, so I didn't harp too much on that."

Thomas is a good shooter, and Fish said he had gotten good reports about him from his contacts in Oklahoma City. I figured we'd have two 10-day periods to get a closer look at him, so we signed him as well.

This scares me, what the heck is Fisher looking at if he thought Hardaway defense was getting better and that Thomas could shoot.

Did he consult Carmelo Anthony, who had played alongside Smith for almost his entire career, before pulling the trigger?

"Not at all," Jackson says. "If I had done so, Carmelo would have to lie to the media when they asked him about that possibility. If we ever had the opportunity to bring in an All-Star player, I'd certainly ask Carmelo if he thought he could play with the guy. Otherwise, it's appropriate to keep him out of the loop."

Plausible deniability

Sounds to me like Melo wouldn't last too long playing for a Phil lead team if he didn't have that NTC in his contract.

I think people create issues between Phil and Melo when there isn't any.

CrushAlot wrote:It is nice to read actual quotes from Phil and not what a writer thinks he would say.

I think it is a bad move for a President of BBO to put this stuff out there. Yes they know he did it in the past but the past is the past and you don't need to remind people of how the new culture you are implementing is about sullying players name giving out inside info.

That could hurt trying to get some FAs.

WaltLongmire wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It is nice to read actual quotes from Phil and not what a writer thinks he would say.

Yet how easy is it to take these words and "repurpose" them into an Araton type article that annoyed you so much- not too hard at all.

If Jackson was annoyed at what Araton did he could have had his lawyers do something. Araton simply took the gist of what Jackson said and went creative with it. Nothing he said was not said in one way or another by Jackson...all he did was put everything together into words that Jackson might have said directly to Anthony, but chose to say obliquely to the press.

No big deal, but everything he said could have been confirmed by referencing them with Phil's own comments.

Exactly. If Araton was so way off, Phil could've said something on twitter like "How's it GOINK?"

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It is nice to read actual quotes from Phil and not what a writer thinks he would say.

I think it is a bad move for a President of BBO to put this stuff out there. Yes they know he did it in the past but the past is the past and you don't need to remind people of how the new culture you are implementing is about sullying players name giving out inside info.

That could hurt trying to get some FAs.

I don't think Phil is worried about that. The kind of players Phil is looking for aren't Knuckleheads and aren't gonna be put off by some frank words. I don't think it was necessary for Phil to allow his private meetings to get out there but in the end I don't think it's gonna really be a problem down the line. The main thing Phil has to worry about is whether his team will win. If they win he has nothing to worry about but if what he's done doesn't work then it all comes crashing down and no FA will come anyway.

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It is nice to read actual quotes from Phil and not what a writer thinks he would say.

I think it is a bad move for a President of BBO to put this stuff out there. Yes they know he did it in the past but the past is the past and you don't need to remind people of how the new culture you are implementing is about sullying players name giving out inside info.

That could hurt trying to get some FAs.

I don't think Phil is worried about that. The kind of players Phil is looking for aren't Knuckleheads and aren't gonna be put off by some frank words. I don't think it was necessary for Phil to allow his private meetings to get out there but in the end I don't think it's gonna really be a problem down the line. The main thing Phil has to worry about is whether his team will win. If they win he has nothing to worry about but if what he's done doesn't work then it all comes crashing down and no FA will come anyway.

This isn't about knuckleheads, it's more about trust. It's one thing for a coach to say things it's another thing for a President to say something. It is about can a FA trust you.

am not saying it will be a problem but that it could be and if it is possible why do things that could effect your ability on getting a player you want. Players and agent talk.

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It is nice to read actual quotes from Phil and not what a writer thinks he would say.

Yet how easy is it to take these words and "repurpose" them into an Araton type article that annoyed you so much- not too hard at all.

If Jackson was annoyed at what Araton did he could have had his lawyers do something. Araton simply took the gist of what Jackson said and went creative with it. Nothing he said was not said in one way or another by Jackson...all he did was put everything together into words that Jackson might have said directly to Anthony, but chose to say obliquely to the press.

No big deal, but everything he said could have been confirmed by referencing them with Phil's own comments.

You made a connection to the Araton article from thishttp://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13269490/the-phil-files-part-4-trade-shook-new-york? I don't see it. No mind reading or making assumptions in Rosen's article.

Phil sat down with Rosen, and perhaps hangs out with him... big difference, but Araton knew his sources well.

Once again, all Araton did was take things Phil has said and made them into an "imaginary" talk given by Phil to Anthony.

This you tube video did the same kind of thing, in many cases taking their voices and putting them into a story which never happened, of course. Seemed quite clever and was very well done, but got its point across.

CA fully understands how to manipulate STATS, FANS, CONTRACTS, LEVERAGE, and $$$$$$$, WITH BOXCORES
When Lin was here, he did not appreciate being challenged in any way, even if Lin's intentions were to WIN and not fight for boxscores...
His EGO is apparently his biggest flaw

Even when Lin was here, the support for Lin vs CA's style of play was apparent, after winning with Lin and a lack of talent but played tough DEFENSE and hitting the open man, while Lin was the 1st option to penetrate/facilitate, as the rest of the team was at least able to play off that, knowing that the ball would get to them if they were open

The Knicks were divided with PRO Dantoni/Lin and PRO ISO/Woodson/CA and JR Smith

However, with CA, no one knows how he will try to score, if he will try to drive it in or just pull up with a contested shot, thus Iman and others being stagnant in the OFFENSE and standing in the corner
JR Smith became the team's #2 option and got to fire his shots whenever he wanted as well

Woodson played favoritism with his roster and sided with CA instead of trying to get the entire team to play as 1, which Lin was trying to do...
CA was not going to listen to orders by Lin and felt Lin must adjust to playing with CA, not the other way around

What happened next was Felton returning and CA had to reclaim the Garden, with the fans and trusts of his team mates like Tyson Chandler
All had a chip on their shoulders to perform and the veterans were constantly being MOCKED at being OLD with Kidd, Wallace, Thomas, Wallace, etc...

They did provide "leadership" however, were no longer able to contribute on a high level vs LEGIT play off caliber teams and play off defense in The Pacers
That year we won because we played in a weak conference with many injuries, however, in the play offs the lack of legs/speed/quickness was apparent to go with Woodson's "philosophy" on DEFENSE, with switching, and OFFENSE, with ISO MELO

Iman Shumpert might not have realized then but he was manipulated with CA so that CA could get his shots whenever he wanted and Shumpert was playing SF with no help on DEFENSE as a scapegoat with Tyson Chandler being the only other defender
Had Iman not been traded with JR Smith to Cleveland, Iman would struggle to get a decent NBA contract despite Lebron acknowledging that he is one of the leagues TOP YOUNGER DEFENDERS
JR Smith would not have had the balls to opt out of his contract with the way he struggled in the Triangle and was the #2 option behind CA, and #1 option when CA was not in
Both players play much better with actual talent around them and a leader in Lebron James in addition to his lock down defense abilities
With Lebron/Irving/Love, JR Smith and Iman play as the 4th or 5th options while the attention wasn't on them, leading to wide open looks consistently
Both Irving and Lebron draw double teams at all times and Triston Thompson and MosGoV are solid defenders/rebounders to protect the paint
You need talent to win in this league with players that can draw double teams, end of story...

JR Smith would be smart to just suck it up and take a contract to prove himself once again with Cleveland, even if it is for less
If not, he will be the next Sprewell without the DEFENSE and his OFFENSIVE game
Smith is a volume scorer with bad habits

He will be out of the league very fast if he doesn't change this perception and continues on his immature ways
Instead of trolling Phil Jackson, he should have seriously Thanked him for sending to a team that allowed him to shoot as much as he did as the 4th option in the lineup
Smith was offended as Iman Shumpert was the player Cleveland actually wanted while New York no longer wanted to deal with his immature ways
However, since Iman was hurt during the trade, JR Smith got the start and did well, so Blatt kept him in the starting lineup...

yellowboy90 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It is nice to read actual quotes from Phil and not what a writer thinks he would say.

I think it is a bad move for a President of BBO to put this stuff out there. Yes they know he did it in the past but the past is the past and you don't need to remind people of how the new culture you are implementing is about sullying players name giving out inside info.

That could hurt trying to get some FAs.

I don't think Phil is worried about that. The kind of players Phil is looking for aren't Knuckleheads and aren't gonna be put off by some frank words. I don't think it was necessary for Phil to allow his private meetings to get out there but in the end I don't think it's gonna really be a problem down the line. The main thing Phil has to worry about is whether his team will win. If they win he has nothing to worry about but if what he's done doesn't work then it all comes crashing down and no FA will come anyway.

This isn't about knuckleheads, it's more about trust. It's one thing for a coach to say things it's another thing for a President to say something. It is about can a FA trust you.

am not saying it will be a problem but that it could be and if it is possible why do things that could effect your ability on getting a player you want. Players and agent talk.

It's about setting the record straight to fans and media going ape $h!t with speculation on why we didn't get more "value" back for Shump and JR. These guys were hurting the team - plain and simple.

That doesn't set the record straight on why they didn't get proper value because other teams did not know what was going on. Dion Waiters is a worse basketball player than Shump and JR and had team related issues but did that stop the Cavs from getting a 1st? Know, who you trading with and the value they have for the players.

It does set the record straight. They were more concerned about getting rid of them than about what they were getting back. The longer you let this type of behavior continue the more it impacts others negatively and when the trade happened their value was at a all time low.