I am predicting that they will be a hard team to beat. They many not win a ton of games but they will not be a walkover like last year. I can see this team winning 40-45 games if KP finds his game quickly, calderon is the player he was 2 years ago and Grant plays like he is still at ND. They have depth, so that is not an issue.

Ira wrote:I like the O'Quinn and Afflalo signings a lot. Afflalo contributes on both ends of the court. He'll replace Hardaway's shooting while helping on defense. O'Quinn is a blue collar guy who plays good defense and is developing an outside shot. He's still young and will contribute more in this contract than he did in Orlando. We did overpay for Lopez, but he is what we need at center. Derrick Williams is a gamble and I'm not happy with that signing.

This is a fair assessment. Derrick Williams is a gamble. I'm hoping Phil saw something there. I think he could be trouble on backdoor screens with Lopez or O'Quinn passing from the high post. Or if Melo decides to pass on a given play.

RedmenBaller wrote:Lopez, O'Quinn, Williams and Aflalo. Everyone is talking about how they are the "right type" of players and will make such a difference. I sure hope so. I would have rather gone with younger less expensive "Right Types" but Stats don't lie. We were all happy to see Bargnani and his 15pt career average go for vets minimum but took on a bigger bust in Williams at 4M. No offer for guys like Smith, Aldmundson, Shved or Aldrich but gave O quinn and his 5 ppg career average 4M. And Lopez gets 14 million average per year but Phil cant offer Monroe, a young big with consistent improvement and higher rated 16.5 Million. I am sure the whole NBA thought Lopez was just as good as Monroe prior to free agency. Aflalo, may be the only one who's number justify signing at 8M, as long as he returns to previous production. Just cant say that we got our moneys worth. Prefer rooting for young ball players that can be sculpted to "Right Types". Dunno, maybe I am just seeing all these young guys trying to make it in summer league that seem to have lots of talent and could be just as good if given the chance.

Instead of a general term of who you wanted, why not actually put down names to this? Who would have you signed with the money?? People criticize but don't have better ideas.

knickscity wrote:It's easier to take less money for a team that has a chance to win some games. Overall this team wont be good, players will have to exceed their own personal bests for the team to win games. I honestly dont see this team winning more than 30-35 games WITH a healthy Melo. Outside of melo, the entire team is either role player or inexperienced. But I do think Phil did the best he could, the top notch talent wasnt coming to a losing situation.

People keep talking about all thsee top level talent players we lost out on but there was only one top level talent player that actually changed teams which was LMA who went to play for one of the best organizations in all of basketball for one of the best coaches to ever coach and one of the best players to ever play the game.

Jmpasq wrote:

RedmenBaller wrote:Lopez, O'Quinn, Williams and Aflalo. Everyone is talking about how they are the "right type" of players and will make such a difference. I sure hope so. I would have rather gone with younger less expensive "Right Types" but Stats don't lie. We were all happy to see Bargnani and his 15pt career average go for vets minimum but took on a bigger bust in Williams at 4M. No offer for guys like Smith, Aldmundson, Shved or Aldrich but gave O quinn and his 5 ppg career average 4M. And Lopez gets 14 million average per year but Phil cant offer Monroe, a young big with consistent improvement and higher rated 16.5 Million. I am sure the whole NBA thought Lopez was just as good as Monroe prior to free agency. Aflalo, may be the only one who's number justify signing at 8M, as long as he returns to previous production. Just cant say that we got our moneys worth. Prefer rooting for young ball players that can be sculpted to "Right Types". Dunno, maybe I am just seeing all these young guys trying to make it in summer league that seem to have lots of talent and could be just as good if given the chance.

I admit some of the moves are puzzling especially Williams, I knew we weren't getting any of the top guys but I really thought we would end up with Monroe

I think Phil didn't want to offer Monroe the 2-year opt-out to have to supermax him later and pay him more salary at a higher cap. Lopez on the straight 4-year deal isn't actually an overpay, even under the current cap figure. Monroe at 16.5 million for 4 years is a bargain, but if he wants the two-year opt-out in order to shoot for more money halfway through, that's a completely different proposition. Lopez has NBA experience, can actually play on both ends, doesn't cost a ton of money, and helps the team win more games right away, something that a younger overseas player you can't even name doesn't do right away.

The Knicks basically got Lopez, who is going to be around for awhile as a starter and defensive anchor, a vet to stabilize the team in Afflalo and gambled on some prospects. I think Williams was a bad signing, but between Grant, O'Quinn, Porzingis, and the young guys they had last coming back, that you're looking for a few of those to actually work out.

I wanted to see Aldrich come back and I didn't like the Williams signing, but those moves don't make enough of a difference for me to complain about it.

RedmenBaller wrote:Lopez, O'Quinn, Williams and Aflalo. Everyone is talking about how they are the "right type" of players and will make such a difference. I sure hope so. I would have rather gone with younger less expensive "Right Types" but Stats don't lie. We were all happy to see Bargnani and his 15pt career average go for vets minimum but took on a bigger bust in Williams at 4M. No offer for guys like Smith, Aldmundson, Shved or Aldrich but gave O quinn and his 5 ppg career average 4M. And Lopez gets 14 million average per year but Phil cant offer Monroe, a young big with consistent improvement and higher rated 16.5 Million. I am sure the whole NBA thought Lopez was just as good as Monroe prior to free agency. Aflalo, may be the only one who's number justify signing at 8M, as long as he returns to previous production. Just cant say that we got our moneys worth. Prefer rooting for young ball players that can be sculpted to "Right Types". Dunno, maybe I am just seeing all these young guys trying to make it in summer league that seem to have lots of talent and could be just as good if given the chance.

crzymdups wrote:A team?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly and to add to that we got:
A. A few guys who really WANTED to be here
B. A discount on Lopez, O'Quinn and Affalo
C. Some GREAT rookies to synergize this team with energy.

I didn't want Monroe, I'm in agreement with Phil on defense! Throw Melo into the mix and I think we will make the playoffs no problem (in the East of course.)
Having a good team is going to make some great free agents jump ship to us next year is my (and I bet Phil's)bet as well.
Sort of a process, but a shorter one.

dk7th wrote:we are going to win more than 17 games and that's a start. with these 4 alone the knicks will get another 10 wins.

if melo is in shape, does not sulk, plays defense, buys in and does not cause a distraction with infantile disgruntlement then the knicks can get to 32-35 wins.

don't care what happens with calderon but it'd be great to give him the heave-ho after the all-star break.

if all goes well with both kris and grant and a little chemistry is built then 40 wins is a possibility.

most likely the knicks will get 30-40 wins on one of two scenarios:

1) melo is traded and the knicks win closer to 30 games but are in great shape for the summer of 2016
2) melo remains and the knicks win closer to 40 games and get better as a team even as melo continues to break down while building his brand

either way there is nowhere to go but up.

Who the eff are you and wtf did you do to dk7th????

Your summer must be going extremely well. Did you catch rim in a game a few times and drop 45 or something? Sign a merger than netted you 8 figures or something?

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:A team?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly and to add to that we got:
A. A few guys who really WANTED to be here
B. A discount on Lopez, O'Quinn and Affalo
C. Some GREAT rookies to synergize this team with energy.
I didn't want Monroe, I'm in agreement with Phil on defense! Throw Melo into the mix and I think we will make the playoffs no problem (in the East of course.)
Having a good team is going to make some great free agents jump ship to us next year is my (and I bet Phil's)bet as well.
Sort of a process, but a shorter one.

We signed Lance and Lou for sheehit (that's an exercise in bench value for the right price)
Unless I'm missing something, Phil's been here less than two seasons and we have a very nice group of yoots.
We haven't given away a draft pick worth mentioning.
We traded away all the accumulated over-potentialized sheehit from the past.
We have an interesting project in DWilliams, who could possibly be Zenned into a little bit of potential.

holfresh wrote:

RedmenBaller wrote:Lopez, O'Quinn, Williams and Aflalo. Everyone is talking about how they are the "right type" of players and will make such a difference. I sure hope so. I would have rather gone with younger less expensive "Right Types" but Stats don't lie. We were all happy to see Bargnani and his 15pt career average go for vets minimum but took on a bigger bust in Williams at 4M. No offer for guys like Smith, Aldmundson, Shved or Aldrich but gave O quinn and his 5 ppg career average 4M. And Lopez gets 14 million average per year but Phil cant offer Monroe, a young big with consistent improvement and higher rated 16.5 Million. I am sure the whole NBA thought Lopez was just as good as Monroe prior to free agency. Aflalo, may be the only one who's number justify signing at 8M, as long as he returns to previous production. Just cant say that we got our moneys worth. Prefer rooting for young ball players that can be sculpted to "Right Types". Dunno, maybe I am just seeing all these young guys trying to make it in summer league that seem to have lots of talent and could be just as good if given the chance.

No they are not dude, They just say that to placate the fact that this sorry franchise marches on in no particular direction for which Phil is just buying time until he fully executes the money grab...Phil is just kicking the can down the road with these moves..They won't win with these players, these aren't good players..But they are movable..They will try to sell you on the idea of building around the young players..So two years from now he can do a full tank again, if necessary..He should have brought back at least one starter and an decent bench player, with Melo, in all the moves he made last year..That way you have something to sell potential free agents...We are headed to 32/34 wins...If Aflalo could regain some of what he was in Orlando and OQuinn actually steps up then maybe we have something to sell free agents next year..It's a long shot...Dolan and Phil both thought Phil's rings and eccentric behavior would attract some high profile players..Didn't work...Players want to see results, not random ramblings or tweets and living on the wrong end of bad trades..

The plan B focus wasn't just on Free Agency. It was about rebuilding with young talent. Now the future of the team is built around KP and the other young players he's got and will continue to add. So all this Bythcing about spending our cap space the way we did is totally missing the point of what Phil is doing with this franchise.